Cascade Fathead stock vs Lundahl? Plus other options?

[Phrygian]

Hey guys

I'm looking to buy one or two ribbon mics. Had the original Shiny Box 46MX, it was ok but really wasn't doing it for me. Now I'm looking at the Cascade Fathead mics. From what I've learned (yes I used the search function) there are really no sonic difference between the I and II. So that out of the way, I'm debating stock vs Lundahl. I like both to be honest from the clips I've heard. I would mainly use it on guitar (mostly heavy) and maybe drums. Lets focus on guitar though. Which one seems to be the winner? While I like the clarity of the Lundahl version, seems to me it could also easily spike in the higher register. Any experience with this? Would I be just as happy with the stock Fathead? It did sound more full. I mainly use a Diezel Herbert, but also have many vintage amps. Please point me in the right direction.

Also interested in other options, under $400 a mic. Just trying to find an alternative to a Royer 121. Thanks!

Matt

[Silent Sound]

I have an Apex 205 where I replaced the transformer for the Lundahl. It made the high and low frequencies clearer and more present, but didn't do much to the mids. If it's just for electric guitar, these will probably be the frequencies that you'll filter out anyway, so I wouldn't say that it's worth the money. Now if you're going to record drums with it too, then I would recommend the upgrade.

As far as all these ribbon mics go, you can do a search and find out that almost all of them are made from the same ribbon motors made from the same Chinese factory. You basically have three options: Long, short, and dual. The bodies can be different, the transformers may be different, and the ribbon thickness and the way it's tensioned can vary from all the different manufacturers. If you're good with your hands and a soldering iron you can always replace the transformer yourself and tension the ribbon, or even replace the ribbon with one of a different thickness. It's all pretty easy and well documented on this and other sites.

The Shiny Box 46MX looks like a long motor ribbon design like my Apex 205. Great for many things, but not my fav on electric guitar cabs. The Fatheads look like short motor ribbons. Some similar and cheaper alternatives to that one would be the Nady RSM 4 and RSM 5. I have the RSM 5 and have used it many times with good results on electric guitar cabs, however recently, I've moved on to other combinations. I do still use it for mid/side recording on mandolins and horns so it has it's place still. I'm just not in all that into ribbon mics in general, I guess.

[dkelley]

for cab I prob wouldn't bother. I've personally only heard raves about long motor (46 style) ribbon mics on recordings of grand piano or acoustic guitar where the complex overtones are heard better with the tranny mod.

as he noted, on cab you won't be hearing those frequencies at all. but I do'nt know how tranny upgrades affect short ribbon mics... someone had a thread about it where the upgrade actually detracted from the sound in the common opinion, and I believe (but could be remembering wrong) that it was a short ribbon motor mic like the fatheads. again... just vague memory here, but it's a thread somewhere in low end theory on this forum so take a look around.

[edva]

The stock Fathead or Fathead II sounds very, very good for the price. You really can't go wrong with it. The upgraded transformer adds a lot to the price, not so much to the sound, IMHO. Not that it's bad, just a much lower bang for the buck factor than the stock mic.

[Phrygian]

Thanks for the replies guys. All very informative! I've made a decision based on your feedback. I'm going to try some stock ribbons and see how I like them first. I'll only know if I like them if I actually experience them for myself, right? Seems to me the cost of upgrading can jump pretty significantly, but I'm no stranger to electronics and modding, so I priced out the Lundahl 2912's and will probably mod one of the mics in the very near future. Will start by ordering a cascade Fathead I and Nady RSM-5 as they will be used for guitar cabs mostly; even exclusively. I'll be checking ribbon sag and even messing with the mesh should I find the mics aren't living up to what I want to hear. I'm excited to try some stuff and get a ribbon back in the collection.

Cheers guys!

Matt

[mhs2xs]

Originally Posted by Phrygian

Thanks for the replies guys. All very informative! I've made a decision based on your feedback. I'm going to try some stock ribbons and see how I like them first. I'll only know if I like them if I actually experience them for myself, right? Seems to me the cost of upgrading can jump pretty significantly, but I'm no stranger to electronics and modding, so I priced out the Lundahl 2912's and will probably mod one of the mics in the very near future. Will start by ordering a cascade Fathead I and Nady RSM-5 as they will be used for guitar cabs mostly; even exclusively. I'll be checking ribbon sag and even messing with the mesh should I find the mics aren't living up to what I want to hear. I'm excited to try some stuff and get a ribbon back in the collection.

Cheers guys!

Matt

That's best. I put a 2913 in one of my R144's and wasn't thrilled. Left one stock. Apparently, the trafo upgrades work best for some sources while the stock works best on others. I know that the stock sounded better for OHD and EGtr cabs while the one with the upgrade was best for AGtr, in my case anyway. Let us know what you think when you get them.

[MattMoorman]

Originally Posted by edva

The stock Fathead or Fathead II sounds very, very good for the price. You really can't go wrong with it. The upgraded transformer adds a lot to the price, not so much to the sound, IMHO. Not that it's bad, just a much lower bang for the buck factor than the stock mic.

agreed.