You CAN have a pro home studio for 1 Grand!

[mhs2xs]

Originally Posted by Paulie Storm

So how come the "art", "expertise" and overall "sound" of current day recordings has jumped headlong into the crapper and plummeted over the edge of the creative/sonic cliff like lemmings being chased by a crazed bobcat?

Sounds like that, in Dr Bill's opinion, people just "throw up the mics and go for it" (as was quoted in another thread) without any regard to proven fundamental recording/production practices. Recording is an art form that is just as important as what's being recorded (my opinion anyway). When the process is half-assed, the sound is as Dr Bill described. And I agree, but apparently some don't.

[drBill]

Originally Posted by mhs2xs

Sounds like that, in Dr Bill's opinion, people just "throw up the mics and go for it" (as was quoted in another thread) without any regard to proven fundamental recording/production practices.

mhs2xs - If you want to quote me, go ahead, I'm all for it, but please don't put words into my mouth or tell others my opinion.

I'm greatly disappointed by "the process" we have today. The opportunities for younger engineers to learn from experienced ones (internship and more appropriately and accurately apprenticing) seem to have gone the way of the dinosaur, and therefore people go at it the only way they can - build a studio and do it themselves with no experience, no mentoring, no real training (and I'm not talking about "school training".) Some are so talented that they rise above any of the above obstacles and make greatness. Most of the rest make noise.

The old skool approach weeded out those that shouldn't have taken it on in the first place, and rewarded talent. And those who BELIEVED that they had talent who were initially blown off like my example (that very well could have been me) WORKED HARDER to make it instead of taking the easy way out.

It was a different era, a different time - good or bad - where "engineering" was held to a higher standard and those wanting in paid their dues under experienced supervision who were not just taking them on to clean toilets. Those lucky enough to land in positions today where they can learn from greatness will be the engineering leaders in the future. I've seen that happen, but it seems to be the exception rather than the norm.

I wish all guys starting out good luck. The harder you work, more you try to emulate and attain the level of the masters, the further you will go in this biz.

[mhs2xs]

Originally Posted by drBill

mhs2xs - If you want to quote me, go ahead, I'm all for it, but please don't put words into my mouth or tell others my opinion.

I'm greatly disappointed by "the process" we have today. The opportunities for younger engineers to learn from experienced ones (internship and more appropriately and accurately apprenticing) seem to have gone the way of the dinosaur, and therefore people go at it the only way they can - build a studio and do it themselves with no experience, no mentoring, no real training (and I'm not talking about "school training".) Some are so talented that they rise above any of the above obstacles and make greatness. Most of the rest make noise.

The old skool approach weeded out those that shouldn't have taken it on in the first place, and rewarded talent. And those who BELIEVED that they had talent who were initially blown off like my example (that very well could have been me) WORKED HARDER to make it instead of taking the easy way out.

It was a different era, a different time - good or bad - where "engineering" was held to a higher standard and those wanting in paid their dues under experienced supervision who were not just taking them on to clean toilets. Those lucky enough to land in positions today where they can learn from greatness will be the engineering leaders in the future. I've seen that happen, but it seems to be the exception rather than the norm.

I wish all guys starting out good luck. The harder you work, more you try to emulate and attain the level of the masters, the further you will go in this biz.

Will do. That's why I said "sounds like". Sorry for the extrapolation. When people talk about higher standards nowadays though, they're being condescending.

[drBill]

Originally Posted by mhs2xs

Sorry for the extrapolation. When people talk about higher standards nowadays though, they're being condescending.

No worries. But yeah, I agree that it's almost impossible to hold a high ground around here without people thinking you hate them. That's why I put smilies in my post about the two historically different ways to become a rock star.

[chessparov]

Admire Guitarboy's well intentioned spirit and enthusiasm!

Having said that...

IMHO having a "pro home studio under $1000", means just having a nice home DEMO studio. Am in this demographic myself.

Occasionally I've heard song and limited equipment/AE knowledge matchups that sound great. By and large (meaning 95%+), using the home demo studio for rehearsal/songwriting, then getting recorded at a truly pro facility (calling Dr Bill et al) is where it's AT.

Chris

[cowboycoalminer]

Originally Posted by chessparov

Admire Guitarboy's well intentioned spirit and enthusiasm!

Having said that...

IMHO having a "pro home studio under $1000", means just having a nice home DEMO studio. Am in this demographic myself.

Occasionally I've heard song and limited equipment/AE knowledge matchups that sound great. By and large (meaning 95%+), using the home demo studio for rehearsal/songwriting, then getting recorded at a truly pro facility (calling Dr Bill et al) is where it's AT.

Chris

I have a home DEMO studio. And wish I only had 1000 in it. It's all relative to the quality your trying to achieve. If your satisfied with a sound from a 1000 dollar studio, fine. But I can tell you from hard lessons learned, labels and publishers will NOT listen past 2 seconds of a demo produced in this manner. Why would they? They are used to real pro demos produced at more than 1000 per song. Again, depends on what your trying to accomplish.

[chessparov]

Yep cowboy you're right.

It was mean primarily in the sense of indie artists/bands who self promote their own material via their own shows/website(s)/publishing etc.

Chris

[Tonesd]

I'm an SE and i didn’t think Bon Iver's ST fit what’s described here as lofi.
Personally, it’s a great example as to what’s been described here as vision. They had a particular aesthetic in mind and pulled it off in spades. Really does sound like a good winter.

Personally i think the most worthwhile 'investment' one can make is the commitment to building an intermediate theoretical framework in regards to sound and it behaviour/interaction with the physical environment and machinery/technology. With this foundation in place, it allows you to formulate your vision; allowing you to 'build' a masterpiece (subjective) that adheres to your creative blueprint.

Whilst not essential for many audio applications, a professional engineer is something to appreciate. Their unique ability to transform creativity into a practical, external output is amazing to watch. Transforming often arbitrary and abstract visions into something real, something physically palatable. All the while managing to retain the original idea. I love this. :D It’s a very unique occupation!

Just like most disciplines, it takes hard work, focus and experience.
No quick fix without dedication.

[guitarboy94]

Hey guys. I posted a track. See the original post. Please be kind.

[analyst303]

No you cant...

[Bloodstar57]

Originally Posted by guitarboy94

Hey guys. I posted a track. See the original post. Please be kind.

Well it's not pro sounding as far as the sound quality and vocals go but I'm listening to it on iPhone. Will give it a listen when in the studio.

[guitarboy94]

Track removed. This is the reason I decided not to post in the first place. I can see where this is going in a heartbeat. You really need to learn to hand out constructive criticism properly. Blanket statements such as the above ruin the spirit of this forum and do nothing to help a home recordist like myself improve his craft.

In fact,I think I'm done with Geartslutz for a while. I've made a few friends here who I'd just assume send in my mixes for evaluation through private correspondence.

Starting this thread was a massive mistake.

Moderator, can you please just delete this entire thread? It's a blemish I'd just assume erase.

[cavern]

That's it? One response and you pull the track?
You could have waited till someone listened to it on real speakers.
I would have given you an honest opinion.

[guitarboy94]

Send me a private message if you want to hear the mix. This will help eliminate anyone who just wants to say negative things on a forum. Since my album is still a work in progress, I'm still very sensitive about it. It's my baby right now.

[cowboycoalminer]

Originally Posted by guitarboy94

Hey guys. I posted a track. See the original post. Please be kind.

It sounds great. It's a well written tune and the vocal performance is tops. A few questions and then a comment. First, what did you use for drums? Samples? Loops? I ask because I use samples regularly and most feel it's cheating. I say the hell with them, I'll do what I want and my record will sound fine. Second, How many instruments where recorded live? Again, loops? Samples? You sent it to a brick and mortar studio who obviously has some damn slutty outboard, which was a good move. Considering the gear you listed to record the stems I say it was a good effort and well done. But let's face it, you had help. I doubt you could have yielded the same result had you mixed and "mastered" the track yourself. And you must have doubted it too else you wouldn't have sent it out. In the end, no matter how you did it, you've got yourself a very sellable product and that's hard to do in this market. Well done I say. By the way, I listened to song all the way through. That's saying something for me as I feel most of the drivel posted on this site is unlistenable garbage. I'll probably buy it.

[Gentleman]

Originally Posted by guitarboy94

Headphones...60 bucks.

So, my total comes to 1200 bucks.

This is a funny post.....

[cowboycoalminer]

Originally Posted by guitarboy94

Track removed. This is the reason I decided not to post in the first place. I can see where this is going in a heartbeat. You really need to learn to hand out constructive criticism properly. Blanket statements such as the above ruin the spirit of this forum and do nothing to help a home recordist like myself improve his craft.

In fact,I think I'm done with Geartslutz for a while. I've made a few friends here who I'd just assume send in my mixes for evaluation through private correspondence.

Starting this thread was a massive mistake.

Moderator, can you please just delete this entire thread? It's a blemish I'd just assume erase.

Holy s%it! Man up!!! You pulled the track before I got my response done. Are you some kind of sissy or something? Who cares what these people think. Put the song back up. It was good!

[slaphappy]

I can understand.

BUT- eventually in this business of music, you have to toughen up your skin. It is a field wrought with critics, and learning how to mentally deal with negative opinions is a must.

You've stood up for yourself and your views all throughout this thread- that's easy to see. It would be a moment of personal growth to have the same strength after posting your music.

It will help in the end.

[cavern]

Originally Posted by guitarboy94

Send me a private message if you want to hear the mix. This will help eliminate anyone who just wants to say negative things on a forum. Since my album is still a work in progress, I'm still very sensitive about it. It's my baby right now.

I did that. thanks.

[guitarboy94]

Okay, okay. I'll put it back up! Especially after hearing some positive feedback! Give me a few minutes....

I must admit that I'm ridiculously insecure about this project....

[mhs2xs]

Originally Posted by guitarboy94

Okay, okay. I'll put it back up! Especially after hearing some positive feedback! Give me a few minutes....

I must admit that I'm ridiculously insecure about this project....

There's nothing to be insecure about if you're seriously trying to better yourself and your music. Learn from mistakes and do all you can to not half-ass anything. The "it's good enough" attitude may be ok for some, but in an industry as brutal as this one it's not likely help you any.

[guitarboy94]

Glad you liked it! I actually used drum loops from Acoustic Drum Loops and Drum Tracks | Drums On Demand
They're live recorded samples.

If you're looking to buy, the album will be out in April. Most of the album has a similar folk-rock vibe.

All Acoustic guitars, bass, harmonica, electric guitars and vocals were recorded by me. The only thing not recorded by me are the drum samples.
Yes, I'm aware that the mixing and mastering adds a huge impact to the finished product. I never intended to mix and master myself, as I don't have the appropriate skills or gear to do that. Keep in mind that the studio I'm using will mix and master an entire album for 465 bucks! I think the guy is just trying to grow his client base. His name is Nick at Cave Studios in France and he's a fantastic engineer to work with.

Originally Posted by cowboycoalminer

It sounds great. It's a well written tune and the vocal performance is tops. A few questions and then a comment. First, what did you use for drums? Samples? Loops? I ask because I use samples regularly and most feel it's cheating. I say the hell with them, I'll do what I want and my record will sound fine. Second, How many instruments where recorded live? Again, loops? Samples? You sent it to a brick and mortar studio who obviously has some damn slutty outboard, which was a good move. Considering the gear you listed to record the stems I say it was a good effort and well done. But let's face it, you had help. I doubt you could have yielded the same result had you mixed and "mastered" the track yourself. And you must have doubted it too else you wouldn't have sent it out. In the end, no matter how you did it, you've got yourself a very sellable product and that's hard to do in this market. Well done I say. By the way, I listened to song all the way through. That's saying something for me as I feel most of the drivel posted on this site is unlistenable garbage. I'll probably buy it.

[mhs2xs]

I know I'm on your ignore list but, personally, I like the song. You can hear all the parts well and, on first listen, everthing seems to occupy a good eq space. I hope I'm not being too negative, but the vocals do seem to get pitchy at times. With me being a drummer, the only other thing I'd suggest is being mindful of the patterns so it's not so repetitive and, I don't know if it's possible, but change the velocity on the snare hits every now and then so it's not so drum machine like. Other than that, good job.

[cowboycoalminer]

The more I listen the more I like it. I notice you live in Columbus. I'm just down the road near Cinci. I actually Rebuilt I -70 between Columbus and Dayton and work up north most of the time. I've got some pretty slutty stuff. Your welcome to use some of it if you like. I trade gear a lot with other local slutz. I also have a dude down here that rents some major stuff. Ear, Neve, you name it. I have a nice Martech you may want to try. You'll throw rocks at your Focurite once you try it.

[cowboycoalminer]

Originally Posted by mhs2xs

I hope I'm not being too negative, but the vocals do seem to get pitchy at times.

I like the fact that it's not perfect. It's solid for the most part, and creative pitchy-ness in places. Some of the best artist in the world sound like ass far as pitch goes. Tom Petty is one of them. Ralph Stanley has made a career of singing off key, Bob Dylan, Springsteen, the list goes on. For me, it's the way a tune makes me feel. This tune has a good vibe.

[mhs2xs]

Originally Posted by cowboycoalminer

I like the fact that it's not perfect. It's solid for the most part, and creative pitchy-ness in places. Some of the best artist in the world sound like ass far as pitch goes. Tom Petty is one of them. Ralph Stanley has made a career of singing off key, Bob Dylan, Springsteen, the list goes on. For me, it's the way a tune makes me feel. This tune has a good vibe.

The vibe is fine and I know there's a lot worse out there. To me, being a few cents off is fine when it works for a lead vocal, but it really glares in harmony and/or doubled up background vocals. It wasn't horrible by any means and I wasn't saying it was bad, just more obvious than what I like to hear, that's all.

For some reason I don't mind Petty's tone and pitch, but I've never been a big fan of Springsteen or Dylan because I find them more difficult to listen to because of theirs. Same with Joe Cocker.

[recordinghopkins]

I think it's George Necola that has a signature along the lines of:

"Engineers don't die, they are dragged into the grave by the sheer weight of their balls."

Make a recording and OWN IT. Without confidence in your own ability, you will endlessly tweak. You're only as good as the last project you FINISHED. If you're not completely thrilled by the results, do it better next time.

[cavern]

I like the song,i feel it has potential to do really well on the market.
My only sticking point as well is the drums.As a drummer also,i know how hard it is to get a convincing digital drum sound on a ballad.
I have a real kit and a digital kit triggering SSD 4.0.
The only thing i would do is set up a session later with a good drummer and have him/her replace the drums.Maybe thicken the BV's a little more but that is only my opinion and well meant.
I like the song.

[jimbridgman]

I am an X-pro AE, I now only take on only certain clients and have my own home/pro studio. With all the gear I have it is about 50+k, and that is not counting my latest upgrade that I currently am in the middle of. I can tell you for a rough demo, it sounded great. It needs a little more eq in a few areas, and it could use some syncing in the volcal harmony tracks with main vocal tracks, but other than that it sounds good to my ears. It is not completely up there with some of the demos I have heard from people that have gone the more pro route, but don't give up. With a little more work, and fixing a few rough edges, this can be great, and can be up there with more pro style studio work, that I have heard in the +5k-10K range, especially for the style of music you are going for, here. It is not right for others to compare this with other styles of music that does require more extensive gear to get the job done. keep up the good work, and alway keep striving for the that next little bit. Don't let others put you down for your acomplishments, remember this is a hang out for some of the more pro/non-pro stuido AEs, and our opions will be more tainted with our skills and the euipement that we choose and use.

Jim

[slaphappy]

The song sounds good. The only glaring thing that I personally am distracted by are the drums. They're not really doing the job, IMO, and I would strongly recommend replacing them.

Cheers...