poor man's 1176

[ShadowAMD]

Originally Posted by pacorro

Hi
I'm actually tracking with a Fmr Pbc-6a.
I like it a lot, but with some tracks they just can't catch the peaks at the fastest attack.
I used to have an Api 525 (sold it) after the Pbc-6a in limit mode, and it was great.
I'd like to track with 2 comps again, and I like to get a low budget comp that works nice in fast settings, ala 1176.
Some advices, please?
I'm talking about 300-400 euro for an used comp.

Thanks in advance

Hate to say it, but the UAD plugs seem like a good way to go on the cheap. They are good and you can buy a second hand UAD-1 with 1176SE for less than $100.

So you could get one of them and something like an RNLA, RNC or a DBX 160.. Have best of both worlds

[lobsterinn]

Overstayer FET - If you can find a used one it will do the trick.

I use mine exactly as you describe sometimes and it works great. I do a similar thing with my Alta Moda AM10 with great results, though that might be a little less common.

An even cheaper option would be an RNC. It wouldn't really add any 'vibe', but it can do some pretty snappy dynamic control.

[turk sanchez]

...are you aware that the pbc6a metering shows RMS and Peak at the same time? The metering looks wild compared to other comps. I never had a problem w/mine being to "slow" to grab peaks. It's just got way different action than an 1176 (or a lot of comps).

[pacorro]

hey, thanks
Rnc / Rnla is not an option because going from balanced to unbalanced makes me loose 6 db. My pre is only 60db and I'm taking a few db with HP, some Eq and 2 comps... and I work with ribbons too.

The Dbx 160 is 10ms fixed attack, so is too slow.

Plugins are ok, buy I prefer hardware if is not too expensive.

What about the Dbx 166 ?
Would work well as a limiter for 2-4 db of GR?
Any idea?

[pacorro]

Originally Posted by turk sanchez

...are you aware that the pbc6a metering shows RMS and Peak at the same time? The metering looks wild compared to other comps. I never had a problem w/mine being to "slow" to grab peaks. It's just got way different action than an 1176 (or a lot of comps).

I know. I just look at the wave form in the daw and even with the fastest attack the transient keep passing.
I like squashing the tracks, not only a little...as much as possible.

[Retinal]

If you wanna stay in the 500 series I'd go for the 527
sound wise is an API not a 1176 but the behavior can get close
Alternatives (which I didn't try tho') could be the Purple fet or the BAC, but if peaks are your problem
save and get the king of fast compressor in 500 series: xPressor

[Chrisc_o]

If being unbalanced is that big of an issue you may be doing something wrong. They have a make-up gain control to bring the output to more than ample levels already.

Your interface's ins should usually be at unity for line level sources from the get-go; anything more can should be seen as a bonus.

[dkelley]

this is why I built my own 1176s. first was from a partially completed project I inhereted, the next was from scratch with my own modifications.

there is nothing quite like an 1176 :-). mine are, for all intents and purposes, authentic 1176s.

however the overstayer is, by definition, the poor man's 1176. that's what it was made to be pretty much, same technology concept for level control.

get the overstayer or build your own :-)

[ShadowAMD]

Originally Posted by Chrisc_o

If being unbalanced is that big of an issue you may be doing something wrong. They have a make-up gain control to bring the output to more than ample levels already.

Your interface's ins should usually be at unity for line level sources from the get-go; anything more can should be seen as a bonus.

Yeah Chris, I second that.. I have never had an issue with unbalanced and it's not like I'm running 50m cables anywhere (Interference).. Unless the OP is?

The RNLA is a good comp for a bit of colour, I often track light with a clean compressor, with tracks needing add a but of colour I place an extra layer of coloured compression on the desk.. The RNLA has a nice colour so I route it through and add a bit of extra colour on the top for vox / guitars and potentially bass.

To say that I have some UA, API's, SSL comps and still choose to use the FMR pbc-6a and RNLA.. Then there not bad at all on some projects.

I'm looking at a Daking FET at the moment, but still deciding if it's worth it.

[hopeless_opus]

I would recommend reconsidering the RNC. I've used it after a balanced preamp, one with about 60db of gain, and even driving an SM7 I never had any issues with levels. The make up on the RNC is clean and quiet. Not really any mojo, but it's def a FAST comp. Seriously, with the proper cables, the balanced to unbalanced thing isn't really an issue. Plus then you could rack it with your Pbc-6a.

Some other options to consider are a Symatrix 501, or if you can find one used, the Toft stereo FET comp. Unfortunately, I don't think the Toft is still in production.

[Enchilada]

+1 on UAD-2. I picked up a laptop version for $20 on eBay because it was sold as untested and advertised as for parts only . Works like a charm with an adaptor in my PC. I liked it so much I got another one a month later. I had an RNC and a Berry compressor (which was YUK!) and these plugs are light years ahead of both of them IMO. The RNC was nice and transparent but for me, it lacked character. It was sterile and had no mojo.

If you're looking to spend 300-400 euro each I would definitely look into DIY. For that sort of money you could pick up a couple of kits from Hairball audio. I've recently taken to DIY, just finished an SSL 4000 bus compressor clone which I love and an 1176 clone is in my sights for next! If you're not handy with a soldering iron you can clock up some practice by building some cheap guitar effects first.

[turk sanchez]

Originally Posted by pacorro

I just look at the wave form in the daw and even with the fastest attack the transient keep passing.
I like squashing the tracks, not only a little...as much as possible.

You set compressors w/your eyes?

PS...regarding losing signal ~ use your makeup gain if that is a problem.

[Retinal]

Originally Posted by pacorro

I know. I just look at the wave form in the daw and even with the fastest attack the transient keep passing.
I like squashing the tracks, not only a little...as much as possible.

Brickwall limiters were made for that

[Rob Coates]

Vintage comps like the Protech, Altec 1612a, or Shure SE-30 (which is dirt cheap on fleabay). All are FET comps like the 1176.

[Mertmo]

Man, I didn't know that the Overstayer is basically a budget 1176 in design.
Now I gotta hear it...!
Actually, what I really gotta do is get off my ass and learn to build stuff so
I can roll my own 1176's.

----

OK, depending on what you want out of a "poor man's 1176", and depending
on how poor you are...

I nominate the Alesis microlimiter.
Cheapest it gets, I picked up two for twenty bucks each a couple years ago.
Literally the best 40 bucks I've maybe ever spent on budget gear.

I frikkin * L O V E * these things. More all the time.
To me, they do a very reasonable 1176 thing, but they are not going to be as
rich and hi-fi of course.

But if you are looking to make any element of a drum kit explode...?
DONE. (especially bottom snare mic... wow)
Amazing on bass, too. Amazing on some vocals, but sometimes the
grainy character is too much on a vocal.

They are the only cheap comp I've used that can just pin a sound in one
spot without completely ruining it.
Really, I think they are just stupidly useful and extremely underrated.
They are not going to live on your 2 buss... ha ha!
But IMO, they are way more full range and hi-fi than they get credit for.

Grainy and punchy, but not too thin sounding.
Easy to operate.
Cheapest comp in the history of mankind.
What's not to love?

I used to fawn over the DBX 163, but the more I use both, the more I love
the Microlimiter.

FWIW, I do have experience with somewhat "real" 1176's --
the purple and the sort of 1176 that makes up half of the 6176 channel strip.

---------

ok, back to drooling over expensive boxes...
mmm.... Mohog....

[pacorro]

Originally Posted by turk sanchez

You set compressors w/your eyes?

PS...regarding losing signal ~ use your makeup gain if that is a problem.

hahaha, no, I set the comp with my ears, but when I noticed the comp was being not as fast as I wish then I took a look at the waveform.

And about the unbalanced loosing... I have a passive bass with very low output level. When I push the make-up gain from the Pbc I have noise. I can only push 3 or 4 db with the make-up gain. I love my bass, don't want to change it.

I'll finally buy an opto-comp ala La3a style (I love optos too) and I'll put the Pbc-6a after the opto with fastest settings and hard knee. Is not a limiter, I know, but I have a good offer and I think it will work better than an Rnc.

[Bill@WelcomeHome]

I'm a big fan of software, but if you need a hardware 1176, a veritable cottage industry has grown up around kits to duplicate the 1176 in almost every stage of it's existence, and some even offer modern mods on the design, and most seem to be under $500USD. I was surprised at how affordable they have been able to make these kits. Not that they are easy to build and calibrate, and though most anyone with reasonable soldering skills and patience can assemble them, it still takes a tech-ish guy with tech-ish gear to set them up once they are built. Still, if you've done your end correctly, the setup is probably affordable and would bring in a realistic 1176 for an affordable price.

[lobsterinn]

Originally Posted by Mertmo

Man, I didn't know that the Overstayer is basically a budget 1176 in design.
Now I gotta hear it...!

I think that is unfair to the Overstayer. It is really its own thing, though it can do a decent approximation of most 1176 tricks. It is much more flexible than an 1176 in that it is stereo or multi-mono, has several filter options, a mix knob, auto release, etc.

I'm interested to try a microlimiter now!

[Mertmo]

wow, dual mono!

guess I never looked into the Overstayer in enough detail... sweet!

[Yummerz]

aphex comps are extremely fast.

[dkelley]

I forgot the alesis. yea they're veyr cool and do sound good. none of that 3630 clicking crap going on in there. they nailed that design. and small too.

overstayer is yes way more flexible than the 1176 although wihtout the mojo of hte transformer based 1176s (which do tend to be the most sought after...).

overstayers are fantastic products no matter what and we shoudl all have one in our home studios or pro studios. period. they should be the de-facto intro to pro level compressor/limiters for project studio builders.

I didn't know about the shure model mentioned. the Altec 1612a is actually really hard to find for cheap these days, at least it is whenever I want one. and they can be really noisy and need lots of work too due to their age. they are not the amazing deal they used to be, but certainly do have potential. and they look cool in your rack...

[turk sanchez]

Originally Posted by pacorro

hahaha, no, I set the comp with my ears

Right on Can you solder? I assembled an 1176 rev D ~ Hairball kit. LOVE it. If you have the time, they are not too pricey at all. I owned the Purple mc77, Action comp, UA 6176 (and many other comps) and now I just have this. It's really great. There is also a vintage silverface 1176 at a studio I have worked at for a decade. They ALL sound a bit different. Hairball is my favorite one yet. Here she is...

Good luck man. I understand the 1176 love. I really like those FMR comps though. The PBC6a is a THICK tone machine. VERY colored (in a cool way).

[Bill@WelcomeHome]

Originally Posted by pacorro

Hi
I'm actually tracking with a Fmr Pbc-6a....

You don't need to track with compression if you are recording in a 24 bit world. I save compression decisions for mixdown.

[gravyface]

Originally Posted by Bill@WelcomeHome

You don't need to track with compression if you are recording in a 24 bit world. I save compression decisions for mixdown.

With the low noise floor on most digital gear nowadays, you don't need to hit it hard on the way in so tracking with compression, gates, etc. is really not necessary and gives you more control later on.

[Wabana66]

But why not just come up with a sound that you love, play with some mics, find the sweet spot, try some compression, some EQ, have fun getting a great sound, and then maybe back off the compression a little bit, maybe, maybe not, and COMMIT!? You know, to the sound you are trying to find. Right? Record it that way. If you aren't sure, just print a second clean unaffected track along with the awesome MIXED one. It's fun! I mean, why save all these decisions for mixdown? I'm sorry but it's not the way to make records. Get the sound NOW.
Ok, rant over. Have a great session.