Help with my newbie mixing skills =)

[James Thomas]

Hey There!

So me and my band (well the guitarist) are recording ourselves at the moment, and have done for about 6 months now coming a LOOOONG way since when we started.

Currently (although this song wasn't using the Pre)

We are going from SM57 - Gap Pre73 - Tascam US122/Mbox 2 mini - DAW (Reaper)
As it's 'Brutal' vocals we will just use an sm58 in a 'surprisingly good' (for it being untreated) sounding room

now I'll be getting a Mbox 3 Pro after x-mas is out of the way so that the converters are up to scratch etc... and will make everything a lot more clear...(on a budget of course)

But I just wanted you guys that know what you're doing to have a quick listen to a W.I.P track we are doing, Drums aren't the best as we threw them together to record with, and bass isn't done yet as was waiting for the GAP-73 (arrived this morning)


http://dl.dropbox.com/u/42119103/Rui...28Rough%29.mp3

There is a Link to the song. So yeah i'm guessing this is more nitpicking at the guitars more then anything see if we are going in the right direction

[thrillhouse]

You are not going to see much of a difference with the new converters. If any at all. Its not going to make everything "a lot more clear"

Same with the pre. Its not going to do THAT much for you.

Youd be better off if you just save your money and get a descent interface instead of nickel and diming all this cheap stuff together.

For instance just imagine if you had a fireface 400. Great converters, better mic pres than anything you currently own, more channels(im thinking youd be able to record atleast 6 trax at once) and more features than i care to go on about. So its 1200$ or whatever. You'll be doing this for the rest of you days wont ya?? Besides you are already talking about 900$ youve got wrapped up in other(new) gear.

I dunno just some food for thought.

[James Thomas]

Originally Posted by thrillhouse

You are not going to see much of a difference with the new converters. If any at all. Its not going to make everything "a lot more clear"

Same with the pre. Its not going to do THAT much for you.

Youd be better off if you just save your money and get a descent interface instead of nickel and diming all this cheap stuff together.

For instance just imagine if you had a fireface 400. Great converters, better mic pres than anything you currently own, more channels(im thinking youd be able to record atleast 6 trax at once) and more features than i care to go on about. So its 1200$ or whatever. You'll be doing this for the rest of you days wont ya?? Besides you are already talking about 900$ youve got wrapped up in other(new) gear.

I dunno just some food for thought.

Hey thanks for the input.

What's the characteristics of the fireface? Is it quite neutral? I liked the GAP due to the nice colouration to the sound it gives. I could try both etc and work them
Together perhaps?


But then the fireface isn't THAT much more £100 (new)or so more then the 3 pro but is it that much better?

I do have a habit of upgrading step by step so it costs a lot but I accumulate lots of cool things (:

So do you think upgrading to the fireface will be a healthy step up quality wise?


That aside feel free to pick at the recording to what you like + don't like


Thanks,
James

[SveinKB]

Only listened to it real quick trough my pc speakers.
The drums are way to loud imo. Especially the snare. I also find it a bit too fat.

[aclarson]

I think you will absolutely notice a difference from the GAP pre, for the better. The guitars sound like they were recorded well, but the GAP will definitely give you more of what you're looking for, just don't OD it too much, it gets fuzzy quick in my experience. Start with the output gain all the way up, turn up the input till it's barely too loud, then back off the output gain till you're good.

Using the GAP for DI on bass will yield a gigantic improvement over interface DI in my experience. I use a Sansamp Bass Driver DI into GAP mic in, and it sounds awesome.

However, I doubt you'll hear much difference from the Mbox 3 conversion in that setup, might be better to save for something better, especially if you're only doing a couple tracks. If you need more tracks, might be better to save for something with more inputs.

Don't like the drum sound much, the snare is definitely blowing my face off, needs a HPF or something, too much information. Kicks sound ok.

[James Thomas]

Originally Posted by SveinKB

Only listened to it real quick trough my pc speakers.
The drums are way to loud imo. Especially the snare. I also find it a bit too fat.

Yeah, I agree, never noticed it as always listened to it probably a bit tooo loud so my speakers made it sound similar, snare is VERY loud! Thanks though

Originally Posted by aclarson

I think you will absolutely notice a difference from the GAP pre, for the better. The guitars sound like they were recorded well, but the GAP will definitely give you more of what you're looking for, just don't OD it too much, it gets fuzzy quick in my experience. Start with the output gain all the way up, turn up the input till it's barely too loud, then back off the output gain till you're good.

Thanks, that's the hope! We did sit down for about an hour trying to get a decent tone although personally it needs another amp and a couple tracks with a bit more... high mids? maybe just change the tone a tad but thanks for the advice on the OD

Using the GAP for DI on bass will yield a gigantic improvement over interface DI in my experience. I use a Sansamp Bass Driver DI into GAP mic in, and it sounds awesome.

Ahh I play bass and have been using the DI output on a orange terror bass, which is actually a line level output so it's ridiculously loud and doesnt sound too hot! so i will DI it now through that instead, interesting you use the sansamp through the Pre-amp though, didnt think of that!!! May have to try something similar as ive been eyeing up a VT deluxe

However, I doubt you'll hear much difference from the Mbox 3 conversion in that setup, might be better to save for something better, especially if you're only doing a couple tracks. If you need more tracks, might be better to save for something with more inputs.

Yeah the only thing I was worried with really! I don't fancy spending a large(ish) sum of money if it wont take me too much further, now i have no questions about that it will be much better but it's hard to say how much better

I am looking at the RME Babyface also, or do you think i should save up quite a bit more and get something real nice?

It will only be for the band, but we want to get it eventually to a level where we can release it on a commercial level

Don't like the drum sound much, the snare is definitely blowing my face off, needs a HPF or something, too much information. Kicks sound ok.

Yeah, drums are always a pain for me not being a drummer! Buying drumagog next week after our gig as will get to sell some t-shirts to cove the cost of it for me so can get in some samples and play around a heck of a lot more which would be nice! Heck could even get the drummer over to help



Thanks a lot aclarson, lots of usefull info in there

[James Thomas]

hey

I got the song to this level now

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/42119103/Ruins%20%28Rough5.mp3

bass needs turning down a tad as it just got re-recorded any more tips guys?

[djfunkymatt]

Hi, new to the forum. How do I listen to your tracks through dropbox? The link gives me a 404 error.

I have to say my studio has been using the Pre73 for a few months and I think it sounds awesome. I will take a nice, musical coloration over perfect clarity almost every time. This is compared to the pres in our Allen & Heath board which already sound pretty darn good.

[AldenW]

What's your monitoring situation like? If you're missing things like that, sounds like sound treatment/monitors might be the most relevant upgrade.

Try the new link, djfunkymatt. The old one's down for me too.

I'd love some more dynamic range in the lead guitar, James. I had the volume turned down because the lead guitar was melting my brain (good? I dunno; I'm more of a James Taylor guy). When the solo came in towards the end, it seemed a little quiet/distant in comparison. I like that you're providing contrast, but with that being the only quieter part, it seemed a little lacking.

That said, this genre's not exactly my area of expertise. Phatty guitar tone though.

[DamZ]

im almost newbie, but i think that mix is first create an idea, point of view, then try to reach it. i had some PM chat with some "big guys" here: everbody makes a great work and everbody has a different focus on it, depending by the kind of music they are used to mix or maybe from who teached them the job.
some might say that it's all in mid range, some say that is all in editing, some in gear.
i think that creating your point of view is the first thing. gear comes with money or with a job in a good place.
Talking about this, i link an old post on the Q&A with Mr. Micheal Brauer that is quite "direct" about his idea ahah
gear vs. the engineer who is using the gear

(somebody sure remember the monkey thing e)

[djfunkymatt]

New mix sounds pretty good to me overall. The rhythm parts of the guitars sound a little boxy, though. You may want to play with the eq, maybe scoop a little of the 500-600hz range. I don't know a lot about metal, but I love At the Gates sound and they have more going on in the high-mids than the lows. Everything cuts through really clearly. Just my opinion, though.

[James Thomas]

Originally Posted by AldenW

What's your monitoring situation like? If you're missing things like that, sounds like sound treatment/monitors might be the most relevant upgrade.

Try the new link, djfunkymatt. The old one's down for me too.

I'd love some more dynamic range in the lead guitar, James. I had the volume turned down because the lead guitar was melting my brain (good? I dunno; I'm more of a James Taylor guy). When the solo came in towards the end, it seemed a little quiet/distant in comparison. I like that you're providing contrast, but with that being the only quieter part, it seemed a little lacking.

That said, this genre's not exactly my area of expertise. Phatty guitar tone though.

Monitoring is fairly basic at the moment :(! going to invest in bass traps + some yamaha ns10's asap (probably in the next couple or weeks or so)

in terms of dynamic range etc.. what would you like to see? I'm new to mixing/recording, so was just really trying to get a good tone and a good balance, and then expand on that with things like you've said

Originally Posted by djfunkymatt

New mix sounds pretty good to me overall. The rhythm parts of the guitars sound a little boxy, though. You may want to play with the eq, maybe scoop a little of the 500-600hz range. I don't know a lot about metal, but I love At the Gates sound and they have more going on in the high-mids than the lows. Everything cuts through really clearly. Just my opinion, though.

Hey yeah, totally agree, think it's more the tone then eq (eq helps) but mic was too close to the grill-cloth hence the boxyness !

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/42119103/Ruins%206.mp3 fitted the bass a tad better by just wacking him down a couple DB. centered the solo, though it seems a tad too quiet now...

I think the sounds there that we/I/the band want and it'll be a case of playing to add in effects and alternate volumes and such