Limiter on the Master Bus - pre fader, or post?

[oldeanalogueguy]

Originally Posted by salbinti

Hi all

If I insert a good limiter on the master bus of my DAW, should it be pre or post fader? I seem to be getting better results with it in a pre fader slot. Not so much in terms of sound quality, but in terms of getting my mixes louder when I go on and do some mastering. Please let's not turn this into a loudness wars discussion - there are plenty of those, and there are reasons (clients) as to why I need to get my mixes louder.

Jut wondering if anyone has any thoughts on this, or another similiar thread that I can be pointed to.

Thank you.

imho it should be post

and there are better ways to get louder without limiting

[otobianki74]

not sure how you're routing your audio, but I put the finishing limiter on the master fader so there's really no pre-fader or post fader benefit (or option). I don't see why you would want it pre... shouldn't it be the last thing in your chain?

oto

[drumzalicious]

How do you have everything set up? do you have a mix bus then a master fader or is your master fader your mix bus?

[salbinti]

Originally Posted by oldeanalogueguy

and there are better ways to get louder without limiting

Ok, Ill bite.

Such as?

[salbinti]

Originally Posted by drumzalicious

How do you have everything set up? do you have a mix bus then a master fader or is your master fader your mix bus?

My master fader is my mix bus. I sue Cubase, and I have VST Instr channels, that get routed to the master bus. Some of the Instr channesl have some light compression. On my master bus, I have the option for 8 inserts. I have 2 instances of eq, in slots 1 & 2 (pre fader). Now wondering where it's best to put the limiter.

Thanks!

[otobianki74]

am I the only one that's confused by this scenario still? I don't understand how on the master bus a limiter can be pre-fader.

[salbinti]

Originally Posted by otobianki74

am I the only one that's confused by this scenario still? I don't understand how on the master bus a limiter can be pre-fader.

Umm, by putting it in a pre fader slot?

[psycho_monkey]

If the OP stops and thinks about it, they'll work out what the difference is.

If you're pre fader, your fader level has no effect on the limiter threshold. If it's post fader, it does. So, assuming your limiter is the last thing in the chain (which it should be in the regular order of things), if your master fader is at -3dB gain, then you're hitting the limiter 3dB quieter than if you have the same limiter setting pre-fader. Turn the threshold up 3dB on the pre-fade limiter, and it will sound exactly the same. Anything else is purely user interpretation.

The only time this will make any difference is if you're doing master fader rides, or if you've got a fade out.

Personally, I'd say do master fader rides INTO the limiter, and if you've got a fade out, do it POST limiter (ie the limiter pre-fade). That way you're not fighting the limiter on the fade out, but your master fader rides will push a limiter in the same way they would were you getting it mastered externally. That said, usually someone mixing the track will do a fade, and the mastering guy deals with that, so maybe always post fade is the way to go.

[otobianki74]

Originally Posted by salbinti

Umm, by putting it in a pre fader slot?

that's one answer to my question.

[otobianki74]

Originally Posted by psycho_monkey

If the OP stops and thinks about it, they'll work out what the difference is.

If you're pre fader, your fader level has no effect on the limiter threshold. If it's post fader, it does. So, assuming your limiter is the last thing in the chain (which it should be in the regular order of things), if your master fader is at -3dB gain, then you're hitting the limiter 3dB quieter than if you have the same limiter setting pre-fader. Turn the threshold up 3dB on the pre-fade limiter, and it will sound exactly the same. Anything else is purely user interpretation.

The only time this will make any difference is if you're doing master fader rides, or if you've got a fade out.

Personally, I'd say do master fader rides INTO the limiter, and if you've got a fade out, do it POST limiter (ie the limiter pre-fade). That way you're not fighting the limiter on the fade out, but your master fader rides will push a limiter in the same way they would were you getting it mastered externally. That said, usually someone mixing the track will do a fade, and the mastering guy deals with that, so maybe always post fade is the way to go.

thanks for the explanation. this is something I've never even thought about as I do rides and all into the limiter.

[salbinti]

P-Monkey:

Very good explanation - thats what I was looking for.

Thanks!

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by salbinti

P-Monkey:

Very good explanation - thats what I was looking for.

Thanks!

You're welcome

[yosefTux]

It's a trick question. Neither. You will get better results from limiting the individual tracks. Leave the master bus alone during mix stage.

You should only limit the master bus during mastering, and then you would use much finer grained tools - such as dynamic or selective limiting of certain sections and/or frequencies. In this way you enliven the mix while making it seem louder.

[gmartina]

You should only limit the master bus during mastering, and then you would use much finer grained tools - such as dynamic or selective limiting of certain sections and/or frequencies. In this way you enliven the mix while making it seem louder.[/QUOTE]