Anyone got the new Stellar CM5 yet?

[legato]

I need more tube mics!

Henk

[NothingTheory]

Originally Posted by kidvybes

..

...tubes are a bit of a crapshoot, so I recommend buying less expensive options, from sources like eBay just to see if you find a particular variant that you like...then if you desire, you can seek out more costly, graded tubes from a respectable tube merchant...just a thought...enjoy your mic!

That is great advice ! Just about any old stock tube of similar type will sound better than a new stock tube. The same alloys are no longer available, supply chain if different, safety regulations prevent certain processes (or make them prohibitively expensive). We are in a time when a lot of old TV repair folks are passing away so there is somewhat of a glut of these random rare tubes on ebay at the moment. When they are gone they are gone.

[kidvybes]

...just noticed Peter posted an "Oktoberfest Special" sale on the Stellar website:

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/8330544-post17.html

[hiphopman]

Hey guys,

I'm looking to sell my Avantone CV-12 to get a Stellar mic.
I've emailed Peter and asked him a couple questions about
the CM-5/6 and he answered them really promptly which is
nice. I've mostly heard clips of the CM-6 and I love what I've
heard thus far. I haven't really heard much CM-5 clips apart
from the song Kidvybes posted (which was great by the way)
and also the link you posted comparing it to the Blue Bottle
and TLM 103. For budget reasons I can't get both mics so I'll
have to choose which one, but I'm having a problem making
a firm decision :( I like the whole C800g kinda vibe but at the
same time I want some good bass as well.....I don't know.
Here's a link of a song I recorded recently on the CV-12 so you
can get an idea of what my voice is like. The chain is CV-12 >
Presonus Studio Channel > Focusrite 2i2 > Logic (yeah low
budget lol). Criticism/advice/comments are welcome on the
song as well. I know the P's are a bit much but I was lazy to
fix all of them that day lol.

MC Amara - ReverbNation

[hiphopman]

BTW the hook on that song didn't exactly come out how I imagined it but yeah.

[prontold]

Hey hiphopman,

Not sure this will help, but I figured I'd just record some speaking and singing (the hook from your track) with my CM5 to give you another reference for the sound. It changes significantly with the polar patterns, so I ran through a few in the clip. I'm no mc, so all you get is some awkward speech and half-assed singing, but I hope it helps. Apologize for all the mouth noises...

[kidvybes]

Originally Posted by hiphopman

I'm looking to sell my Avantone CV-12 to get a Stellar mic.

...I know I've explained this before, so I'll try to be brief......the Stellar CM-5 and Avantone CV-12 originate from the same manufacturer and are both upgraded versions of the OEM Apex 460...while the CV-12 has a tweaked/upgraded circuit (and spiffy red paint job), it still maintains the smaller stock 32mm K67 capsule and cheaper stock 460 transformer...the CM-5 has a further tweaked/upgraded circuit PLUS an upgraded larger 34mm edge-terminated C12-type capsule AND an upgraded T14-type dual-bobbin transformer...much closer to the C12/ELAM 251 format...the combination of the larger edge-terminated capsule and the higher ratio transformer give the CM-5 a bigger bottom-end while still maintaining air and clarity on the top-end...as prontold demonstrated, the CM-5 has a pretty wide range of tonality based on the use of the 9 polar-pattern options...

...we had the stock CV-12 in our studio and while it worked well on female vocals, I found it a bit thin and reedy on male vocals...JJ Audio further modified the circuit and added a Cinemag transformer, and more recently we swapped in an ADK Custom Shop C12-type capsule...now the mic covers more bases very efficiently...

...the CM-6 has a more modern, shiny radio tone (very clean, neutral) than the CM-5 which is a bit more of a vintage style voicing (slightly colored, warmer)...but working the proximity effect on the CM-6 offers a more "in-your-face" kind of sound which a lot of hiphop/rap artists seem to like...IMHO, you can't lose with either...

...and always, regardless which tube mic you buy, give the mic a good burn-in before criticing it's performance...
(and try to take advantage of the current $375 special on either mic if you can )

[hiphopman]

Hey prontold, that clip made me smile lol I have a lot of respect for you for doing that. I really appreciate it, and you didn't sound bad either lol. I liked the sound overall omni sounds like it'll be really great when I do hooks where I try to sing lol. It sounds like you have a good booth setup too I didn't notice really any change in room sound from omni to hypercardiod. Figure 8 sounded really nice too, but I don't know I think I prefer the sound of the CM-6. That clip really pushed me to the CM-6 the sound is definitely nice with the 5 but I like the high end detail and just overall sound of the 6. Also I read some people put Valvo E80F's in the 6 and get deeper bass so that could help me have a little more of both worlds.

Thanks for the comments Kidvybes. Yeah the CM-6 does have more of a modern sound I'm thinking with that plus a Valvo tube I can get exactly the sound I want. I haven't gotten any replies yet for the CV-12 so really hoping I can sell this thing before that special ends. When Peter emailed me yesterday there was only 3 CM-6's left in the special :( I may just have to pay the extra $40 but hey what can you do right. Well if anyones interested in a CV-12 let me know lol.

[hiphopman]

Also do you guys know if these are actual Valvo E80F's? Reason I ask is because someone said those tubes are expensive and hard to find but it was right there like the first link in google and its only $39 lol. If those are good for the CM-6 then that'll be perfect.

NOS E80F/6084

[hiphopman]

It seems Michael Joly really doesn't like Stellar mics. He replied on a post I did over in the home recording forums saying that Peter isn't a mic designer. That he just buys small batches of mics from the same Chinese vendor that Dave Thomas and John Peluso use. And that Dave and John are the ones responsible for any circuit improvements. He also said that at $375 Peters ebay stats say hes sold one or so mics a week and at $425 its like one a month. I've been sitting here listening to all these cm-6/5 samples and I'm just thinking like what? I've never heard mics this good for this price unless if Peter really doesn't change anything in the mics he orders and you can find the same stuff basically from Thomas and Peluso. I'm confused. He also said you might show up over on the home recording post kidvybes lol.

[halcyo]

Originally Posted by hiphopman

He replied on a post I did over in the home recording forums saying that Peter isn't a mic designer. That he just buys small batches of mics from the same Chinese vendor that Dave Thomas and John Peluso use. And that Dave and John are the ones responsible for any circuit improvements....

...I've never heard mics this good for this price unless if Peter really doesn't change anything in the mics he orders and you can find the same stuff basically from Thomas and Peluso.

If it's the same mic as the Dave Thomas and/or John Peluso, then shouldn't we be even more stoked to be getting them for even CHEAPER!?

[hiphopman]

Thats true I know Peluso mics are pretty expensive. Don't know much about Dave Thomas though I'll have to look into his stuff. But yeah the clips don't lie I guess.

[NothingTheory]

Originally Posted by hiphopman

Also do you guys know if these are actual Valvo E80F's? Reason I ask is because someone said those tubes are expensive and hard to find but it was right there like the first link in google and its only $39 lol. If those are good for the CM-6 then that'll be perfect.

NOS E80F/6084

note that the E80F has a longer tube body (61mm vs 49mm) , you will want to make sure it will fit in place of the EF86. as im pretty sure thats what the CM-6 is using. personally i'd stick with a nice 6267 like a mullard or amperex. or a tesla E806F

[kidvybes]

Originally Posted by hiphopman

Also do you guys know if these are actual Valvo E80F's? Reason I ask is because someone said those tubes are expensive and hard to find but it was right there like the first link in google and its only $39 lol. If those are good for the CM-6 then that'll be perfect.

NOS E80F/6084

...yes, those are the correct tubes...the same quality can be found here for about $10 less:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Amperex-PQ-6...-/120985518124

...Valvo manufactured both their own E80F and the Amperex equivalent, the 6084...simply different branding...

Originally Posted by hiphopman

He replied on a post I did over in the home recording forums saying that Peter isn't a mic designer. That he just buys small batches of mics from the same Chinese vendor that Dave Thomas and John Peluso use. And that Dave and John are the ones responsible for any circuit improvements.

I've been sitting here listening to all these cm-6/5 samples and I'm just thinking like what? I've never heard mics this good for this price unless if Peter really doesn't change anything in the mics he orders and you can find the same stuff basically from Thomas and Peluso.

...Peter Bloch of Stellar is a retired Intel audio design engineer...the CM-6 is his exclusive design (an EF86 based plate-follower circuit, according to Dave Thomas, somewhat similar to the classic Gefell UM92)...the other tube mics he sells share variations of the CCDA (constant current draw amplifier) circuit also used by Dave Thomas, among others...yes, the differences between some of the AA and Stellar mics are minor (different trannies and minor circuit tweaks) and quality is comparable...

...you can read some of Dave Thomas' own remarks here:
Stellar CM5/6, AA CM47, Opal OM7 and AIR Swordfish etc??

...as well as my response (I own both Dave's CM-47 and Stellar CM-6):
Stellar CM5/6, AA CM47, Opal OM7 and AIR Swordfish etc??

...in my home studio I've used Peter's mics, as well as Dave Thomas', John Peluso's, Ben Sneesby's (BeesNeez), Kelly Dueck's (KEL Audio), David Royer's (Mojave), Trevor Coley's (Sontronics), Oliver Archut's (Blackspade), Juris Zarins' (JZ Microphones), Jim Jacobson's (JJ Audio) and Brent Casey's (Studio Projects) among others...I believe the Stellar mics hold their own with mics costing 2-3 times the price (as the results of numerous side-by-side comparisons and shootouts)...

...more importantly, I prefer to limit my comments in reference to microphones I've actually had experience working with...I also believe that Peter's own CM-6 design may be the best of the moderately priced tube mics originating from that same factory regardless of brand and pricing (and that opinion is shared with quite a few of my AE associates)...

...if anybody can provide a link to another microphone that shares the same pentode-based tube circuit design, capsule and transformer as the Stellar CM-6, they are welcomed to do so...BTW, clearly both the Peluso and Advanced Audio mics are considerably more expensive, making the Stellar tube mics an even more attractive bargain...

...IMO, ultimately, all you need to concern yourself with is, "what is the best value in a quality tube mic you can purchase at the best price?"...those comments aligning the Stellar mics to the more costly Peluso and Advanced Audio mics further reinforces the obvious value of the CM5 and CM-6...

Originally Posted by NothingTheory

note that the E80F has a longer tube body (61mm vs 49mm) , you will want to make sure it will fit in place of the EF86. as im pretty sure thats what the CM-6 is using. personally i'd stick with a nice 6267 like a mullard or amperex. or a tesla E806F

...after testing numerous variations of the EF86/6267 (Mullards, Telefunken, Amperex, Valvo etc) as well as EF806S and E80F/6084, we determined (as corroborated by Peter Bloch) that the Valvo E80F (Amperex 6084) was the best choice for the CM-6...of course, since these choices are subjective, YMMV...and yes, it fits nicely in the mic without alterations (I've documented with pictures on other threads discussing the CM-6)...Oliver Archut (TAB Funkenwerks/AMI) has also recommended the E80F for use as a replacement for the EF86 in original U67 mics:
http://www.neumann.com/forums/view.p...key=1015290588

[drBill]

Whatever the story with Bloch, I can confidently say that NOTHING is exclusive in China without hundreds of thousands of units being purchased and delivered.

It doesn't matter if you're a botique mic designer, car aftermarket parts exec, or clothing designer. It ALL gets rebranded and offered to the highest bidder. Part of the cost of doing business with businesses whose employees who work for next to nothing, and whose business morals do not align with standard western practice. (Not making moral judgements, just observations.)

I find it no coincidence that there are a dozen mics with virtually the same guts out there. If people want exclusivity, then the product must be assembled outside of china and parts brought together in house and assembled in the US or other non-Chinese country where the manufacturer exists.

[prontold]

Originally Posted by hiphopman

Hey prontold, that clip made me smile lol I have a lot of respect for you for doing that. I really appreciate it, and you didn't sound bad either lol. ... It sounds like you have a good booth setup too I didn't notice really any change in room sound from omni to hypercardiod. ... I think I prefer the sound of the CM-6. That clip really pushed me to the CM-6 the sound is definitely nice with the 5 but I like the high end detail and just overall sound of the 6.

Haha, glad it helped you come to a decision man! I like sharing little demos like that so that people whose position I've been in can get a sense of the sound of whatever they are looking at buying, plus it helps me remember where I might want to use this or that piece of gear.

My booth is actually just my bedroom. It's square shaped, about 12'X12'X10', with carpeted floors. I've got 2 Owens Corning 2'X4' 2" deep panels up that keep the blatant echos under control, though I'm sure the frequency response is still colored to hell.

[hiphopman]

[---Quote removed by mod - personal insults not allowed---]

The part about the low margins does seem to make sense. Its things like this that make me wary :( I've heard the great samples and stuff but I'm really confused now. Why do the mics sound so good if all the things MJ says are true?

[hiphopman]

Just tried to go back to the forum post over at home recording and it seems its gone.

[hiphopman]

@prontold Wow thats a pretty good sounding room though nevertheless. I'm recording in my walk in closet which I had to put up a bunch of auralex foam to take out the horrible reverb, and I'm using a project reflexion filter to tighten it up even more.

[Screws]

Mr. Joly can have any opinion he wants. He's earned the right to feel what he feels, but I own a Stellar CM5 and CM6. I've used and owned mics costing in the thousands and these mics kill. I sold a Soundelux U99 and Blue Blueberry immediately after hearing them side by side with the Stellars and I don't miss them at all.

If Mr. Joly is correct about Peter Bloch's price margin then that only tells me I'm getting the same mic quality that quite a few others are selling for much more money. If the main complaint is that Peter charges too little - I say hooray for the consumer!

As far as to whether Mr. Bloch is actually a mic designer or just selling stock Chinese mics I can only say I really don't care. I'm ending up with really nice sounding tools for my work at "rock bottom prices". The man worked for Intel, and is delivering mics that sound as good or better than mics at two to three times the price. Who gives a rat's ass about the rest?

In the case of the CM5 I've personally compared it to at least 3 other similarly voiced mics and I liked the CM5 at least as much or, in most cases, more than the others. At $375 it was a total no-brainer. It sounded much nicer than a $500 Avantone CV12 and similar (but still sweeter) to a $700 Advanced Audio CM12.

On the other hand, the CM6 sounds very different than most anything I've heard, with the Sony C800g being the only one I remember in the general ballpark.

The Stellar mics are BY FAR the best microphone deals out there - bar none.

[hiphopman]

Your right Screws thats all very true all that really matters is the end results.

[MadGuitrst]

Originally Posted by hiphopman

Why do the mics sound so good if all the things MJ says are true?

He's trying to protect his own business interest.
If people can buy perfectly fine mics for less than the cost of his mods, well.....you figure it out.
MJ has never been too graceful and classy when others offered similar or superior services and his comments that you quoted don't exactly exude class.

Do your homework on mic mods.
Joly didn't invent them.
He got his headbasket "mod" from his mentor, mods to Oktavas from Scott Dorsey, who published them in the 1990s, other mods from other people. He really didn't design his own mods, maybe modded the mods.

He doesn't do anything close to what JJ Audio does or can do. He offers one mod and one mod only (ell, maybe two now) and only on mics with a certain topology. Why? Is that all that he knows?

He scoffed at all things Chinese....until he sold Chinese capsules (for 3-4 times more than can be had).

That doesn't make what he does bad.
He does good work and does it very well....as in turn around time, the way he handles his orders and customers. All very good.

See what I'm getting at here?
The bottom line is what are you getting for your money?

kidvibes knows his mics.
I'd venture to say at this point he could do similar things as these other sellers/modders, etc. if he chose to. But I think he chooses to be an engineer.
He the closest you'll find to a neutral party regarding these mics on these forums.

Don't be afraid of or confused about the Stellar mics because his competitor who sells a mod for more than an entire mic says stupid things about them. It's the uninitiated he is apparently targeting, and working on, as your response suggest, with all due respect. See?

[MadGuitrst]

And another thing:

Originally Posted by hiphopman

This is something Michael Joly said

2. He sells Chinese vendor, catalog mics at rock bottom prices (just over his cost)

No, I know EXACTLY what costs are and I have invoices to prove it.

Straight outta China:

Tube mics, complete with case: $88.00 (same as the Nady 1150 and/or 1050).
FET mics, complete with case: $40.00
Ribbon mics, complete with case: $40.00
That is if not buying in much bulk.

I did have discussions about buying mics "pre-modded" to different extents, but yes, unless MAYBE you are moving a TON of product, nothing is exclusive with Chinese manufacturers.
*Note: the above prices are for "Chinese vendor, catalog mics", not mics with better capsules and transformers, the two most expensive parts in a mic (haven't kept up, does Joly offer replacement transformers, like Cimemag CM-2461NiCo or 2460?).

So, Stellar is obviously making a profit, probably around 100%, maybe more, which seems reasonable considering he is making the investment and taking the risks, no?

to make a few bucks to pay for his retirement medication co-pays. You'll have to believe me - I know the costs and what his pricing leaves for profit. You could feed a good size Maine Coon cat and his friends on the monthly bottom line - if the cats found other sources for dinner most nights.

Sounds classy, huh?
Sounds like bitter, sounds classless. Not saying he is, but that reads that way.

Now:

Considering a whole FET mic is $40, how much do you think Joly or anyone else pays for the capsules?
Considering the capsules are now sold for $100 or so from K47 and CK12 capsules | Microphone Mods | Microphone Parts , the cost to the purchaser is what, $50? $25?

Everyone has a right to do what they do for what they and their customers consider a fair price.
The key there is EVERYONE HAS A RIGHT, not Joly only has the right.
Seems he feels that way whenever a new "competitor" comes around that might impact his business.

Notice he has had this same stuff with JJ Audio (who no doubt do more involved work). now with Stellar due to the price point, I guess. However, not with those with higher price points. Why? Not direct competition, which, according to his calculations should be pretty small (one mic a month, he he).

Again, I am NOT dissing Joly's work.
In fact, I just posted in another thread that a complainer must be wrong (he said Joly never contacted him.....Joly's customer service is top notch, can't get better).
I just hate that other crap, really hate it (if it wasn't obvious).

Anyway, enough of that.

Choose what you want and be happy that there are so many good, affordable choices, whether it me new or modded mics.

[kidvybes]

Originally Posted by hiphopman

This is something Michael Joly said

...clearly hiphopman, you must be unaware that he was banned from this forum site for posting similar "less-than-professional" rants...

...more often than not, the purpose of these rants is to get these threads shut down, to stifle the interest in a competitor's product...a tactic that has worked well for him, but is far from anything one might refer to as "ethical"...

Originally Posted by hiphopman

Just tried to go back to the forum post over at home recording and it seems its gone.

...obviously, the moderators over there are doing their job...these forums have rules and regulations...for example, from the Gearslutz FAQ :

11. If you are a dealer/distributor/manufacturer/company rep of any kind for a pro audio, music or post-production related firm, please familiarise yourself with the rules that apply to you in our FAQ. If you post any sort of inter-company bickering, call for ‘halt of trade’ or air any other “dirty laundry” between another dealer/manufacturer and your company then you risk exclusion from the forum.

...hiphopman, you may want to be more discreet in the future when "copying and pasting" others' dirty laundry...

[LTJazz]

All I'm going to say is Joly tried getting exclusive rights to mics produced in the same factory as the Stellar mics.

So for bashing on Peter so much, he sure was quick to turn around, go to the same factory, and try to undercut him and get exclusivity. Thankfully, the factory told him no....

It's obvious Joly's products are being rendered a bit obsolete and he's losing market share because he didn't do his homework and stay ahead of the game. He's banned here, he'll probably be banned on homerecording forums soon, too.

Even if I liked his stuff, and I don't, I'd be wary about giving my money to someone so dishonest.

[drBill]

Originally Posted by LTJazz

I'd be wary about giving my money to someone so dishonest.

Easy to slam someone on the internet when they are not around. (And yes, I know and acknowledge that goes both directions and works for all parties involved....)

But,

The last thing I'd call Joly is dishonest. That's disingenuous IMO. Out and Over spoken? No doubt. But there's lots being said above that is not true - or perhaps more to the point - twisted, and biased in an unfair way. Some of it is straight ahead. But one thing that's undeniable - the guy's business is growing faster than he can manage it, and if you like his personal mic esthetic, theres no better option.

Perhaps it's all a publicity ploy on his part. In all the dealings I've ever had with him, he's been one of the most friendly, helpful, and open people in this biz that I've ever had the pleasure of doing business with.

Sucks to see people try to tear that down.... Are we really going down this road again? That's my $.02 - But I'm not going to get pulled into this childish bickering again.

[mdemesmin1]

Originally Posted by hiphopman

This is something Michael Joly said

"4. Peter Bloch has never visited his Chinese vendor's shop. Believe me, you can't do business with Chinese vendors without "Guanxi" - relationships. Without putting the time in on the ground in China a cat is just buying what the vendor has in the catalog.

I'm on my way to China and those cats are honest - if you know how to speak the language. Cheers, M"

I wish Mike Jolly more luck this trip to China. The last time he went, 2 years ago, he came back and proudly made this announcement on Gearslutz:

Originally Posted by Michael_Joly
"I've been holding off on this for awhile, but this seems to be as good a time as any to announce...

...I have negotiated exclusive US distribution rights to ISK microphones and will be the sole US importer. I am in discussions with a leading online retailer who will be the exclusive retailer for iSK microphones.

My goal is to offer high quality microphones with excellent customer service at attractive prices. By limiting the number of "players" involved, end users will experience the same high level of performance and customer service Meryl and I deliver with our OktavaMod aftermarket services.

I'm only going to focus on a limited line of most-sought-after / most usable mic types. No stands, pop filters, cables etc. While exact branding details have not been finalized, these will be "iSK / Michael Joly Edition" microphones. In other words, the already fine iSK mics will be further tweaked to incorporate my own aftermarket upgrades, quality assurance protocols and performance documentation.

This tightly controlled manufacturing / distribution / retailing strategic alignment is really a new microphone sales paradigm. For buyers of new microphones, this distribution and retail arrangement will mean easy ordering, fast delivery and great pricing for "iSK / Michael Joly Edition" microphones. End users will experience boutique-level mic quality and personal customer service coupled with major retailer easy-of-purchase and attractive pricing - and have the peace of mind that I've personally set the design specs and QC protocol for these mics.

With almost a year and half of water under the bridge, ShengKe et al and I have developed very good business and personal relationships that will enable us to deliver excellent value all the way through to end users."

Well, we all know how well that went.

[NothingTheory]

Originally Posted by kidvybes

...after testing numerous variations of the EF86/6267 (Mullards, Telefunken, Amperex, Valvo etc) as well as EF806S and E80F/6084, we determined (as corroborated by Peter Bloch) that the Valvo E80F (Amperex 6084) was the best choice for the CM-6...of course, since these choices are subjective, YMMV...and yes, it fits nicely in the mic without alterations (I've documented with pictures on other threads discussing the CM-6)...Oliver Archut (TAB Funkenwerks/AMI) has also recommended the E80F for use as a replacement for the EF86 in original U67 mics:
Archive - Re: Tube Choices for U67

The E80F has a slightly higher voltage rating yes ? Like 600V or something. So I had always considered running them at under 200V ( typical mic ) to be edging towards the "starved plate" region. Admittedly, Ive never tried though.. so now im intrigued. Thanks. I don't suppose there are any clip comparisons out there ?

[ma_ga]

hi,

I started this thread almost a year ago...it turned into a somewhat strange discussion...
Back to topic:

I got the CM5 last week and I have to say that it is a really nice sounding mic. Smooth top end and full bodied low end. Like it !!
It is a nice companion for my AA CM47se which has stronger mids.

I own a much more expensive neumann mic and the CM5 holds up his own very well.
Great value, really a lot of mic for the money.
Thanks Dennis !
;-)

cheers
Markus

[mdemesmin1]

Originally Posted by ma_ga

hi,

I started this thread almost a year ago...it turned into a somewhat strange discussion...
Back to topic:

I got the CM5 last week and I have to say that it is a really nice sounding mic. Smooth top end and full bodied low end. Like it !!
It is a nice companion for my AA CM47se which has stronger mids.

I own a much more expensive neumann mic and the CM5 holds up his own very well.
Great value, really a lot of mic for the money.
Thanks Dennis !
;-)

cheers




Markus

I agree with you let’s get back to the point at hand here. I have a CM-5 as well and I must say WOW!!! That is a very nice sounding microphone. That is a go to microphone for female vocals in my studio.