Advice on upgrading project studio on a $3K budget

rokn4jc · 31st March 2006

Ok I am soliciting advice on upgrading my new project studio. I am just now completing contruction of a ~ 16 x 24 x 9 room to be used as a project studio, practice/rehearsal space etc. Assume the room has been properly sound-proofed and acoustically treated.

Here is what I have
M-Audio Delta 66 with Omni i/o
M-Audio BX5 monitors
Cheap Apex LDC
Line 6 Toneport
Shure SM57, Beta 58A
Sonar 5 PE and some other software and plugins that will be sufficient

Hear are my goals:
Track Vocals (male/female) in a pop/rock or country/folk style
Guitars (Ac and elec), Bass, Keyboards and pretty much most electric and acoustic instruments, with the exception of a full drum kit (for now). Most of the work will initially be 1 -2 tracks at a time with programmed or looped drums.

I have been researching as much as possible, and the shear number of choices are pretty overwhelmng, but I have begun to narrow it down a bit. Above all, I want to only purchase gear once, and be able to grow and expand easily as needs change.

I will post specific questions in other post, but where is the best place to invest funds ? I am thinking on quality mics and a good preamp or two, and last put money into interface A/D.

What would you do in my situation ?

thanks

rokn4jc · 31st March 2006

How about these setups:

Interface ~ $1000
Lynx 2 A or C
Mackie Onyx 1620 w/FW and eq mod
Apogee Rosetta 200 (connect to current sc via SPDIF)

Preamps ~ $700 - $1000
RNP/RNC + Funklogic rack
Vintech 1272 or Sebatron 2000e (used)
Sytek MPX-4aii w/ Burr brown
Great River ME-1NV
UA LA-610

Mics
AT4040 or ADK Hamburg $300
AT4047, Rode K2 or ADK TL/TC $500 - $600
Soundelux U195 $1100

Would I be better off spending more money on a mic and less on a pre or the other way around ?

Amstel · 31st March 2006

AEA R92
Great River ME-1NV
Apogee Rosetta 200 (2nd hand)

I <3 The Beatle · 31st March 2006

Why don't I save you some money:

Shure SM7 - $300

Octava MC012 (I like these on acoustic guitar) - $150?

DAV BG1 (2 chan mic pre) - $650

2 chan Radial JDI (For keyboards/bass and guitar DI) - $330

RME Fireface 400 - Price not released yet, but I would imagine under 1K

FXPansion's BFD (for drums) - $300

A new pair of monitors - Event 20/20's maybe.. (I use/like them..I know enough people in here don't)

Although the FF400 is not out yet, we know the FF800 is rock solid and RME has a stellar record of making solid sound cards. Although no one has used the converters yet, the Multiface and FF800 both have nice AD/DA. In other words, I trust RME so I don't see it as a shot in the dark..

This, IMHO, is an excellent rig and is capable of great things.

BTW, enjoy S5PE. Good choice, that program is amazing.

Best of luck

I <3 The Beatle · 2nd April 2006

Let me also add an Audio-Technica AT4040 to that list. The SM7 might not always be the best choice for the ladies.

It'll be good for guys too..it's versatile.

I personally love dynamic microphones on vocals...it's rare I work with females though since I pretty much use it for myself.

djbrough · 3rd April 2006

What are the specs of your computer? IT may be the first thing that needs upgrading.

rokn4jc · 3rd April 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by djbrough

What are the specs of your computer? IT may be the first thing that needs upgrading.

I've already taken care of that part. Just built a new dual core AMD Athlon64 w/ 2 GB Ram. 36 GB system drive and 240 GB for audio on a raid 0 array.

ddageek · 3rd April 2006

have fun buy the used trak2 on ebay for 1900 but a dac card in it and buy a 4047 with wats left!

djbrough · 4th April 2006

Quote:

I've already taken care of that part. Just built a new dual core AMD Athlon64 w/ 2 GB Ram. 36 GB system drive and 240 GB for audio on a raid 0 array.

Well, since that's a non-issue

RME Fireface 800
Chandler Germanium
Event ASP8's

Just a little over $3K. More clarity in and out.

warhead · 4th April 2006

Honestly for $3k you can get a lot for what you're doing these days.

Interface ideas:

Presonus Firepod
Mackie Onyx 1620 w/ Firewire

Explanation = each have quite decent preamps on board and decent conversion. Also, I have found the drivers to be solid for each.

Monitor ideas:

Tannoy Reveal 5A
KRK V6
Tascam VL-X5

Explanation = The Tannoy have the most clarity and are a bit brighter, but are also easy to work with at lower volumes as well. The KRK V6 lose a bit of that high end detail, but have a more present midrange / low end. The Tascam VL-X5 are a very surprising speaker for the money, they kill this Wharfedale stuff all day long and have a very balanced sound without the fake low end going on many entry level speakers give.

Microphone ideas:

sE Electronics Z5600A
CAD M179
Audix i5
MXL 604 pair

Explanation = The sE Z5600A is just a great all purpose multi patterned mic that has a little bit of an excited upper midrange that sounds better than real life. Great on vocals, drums, acoustic sources etc. The CAD M179 is a flattish response type of mic, for when you need something more even and balanced, and compliments the Z5600A well as they don't sound the same. The Audix i5 is arguably the nicest dynamic mic around these days...it sounds so good on so many things and kills the SM57. The MXL604 are great on acoustic guitars and will do fine on things like drum overheads. So in a pinch, MXL604 for left and right overheads and Audix i5 in the kick.

Vocal pre / DI / compressor limiter expander: Safe Sound Audio P1

Explanation = The P1 keeps dynamics under control and rides vocals / bass in an extremely clean fashion without leaving your tracks sounding beat up. A real nice box for any studio at any price.

That's a versatile package and around your budget. Having used all of this stuff this is what I'd consider with the funds available. Best of luck with it.

War

JPF · 4th April 2006

how does the mackie board work w/ say an m-box w/G5?thnx-JP

warhead · 4th April 2006

I'm a PC guy!

War

JPF · 4th April 2006

sorry,was just kind of asking the thread..looking for a solution to getting a mixer w/ the mbox so i can a-b betwn monitors etc.although mbox has only two outs so maybe upgrade to digi oo1..how about Johnny Few or T bird Toglio?couple of Columbia cats that i used to play with...

rokn4jc · 4th April 2006

Thanks for all of the input. I had pretty much settled on the Fireface 800 from RME. Good to really good convetersion/clock and 4 usable pre's w/ DI. But I keep going back to look at the Onyx 1620.

Question for Warren: How are the converters on the Mackie firewire interface compared to the RME ? I think the pre's from what I have heard and read will be very usable, as will the eq.

Monitors
I was actually thinking strongly about the Yorkville YSM1. How do these compare (and the other suggstions you made) to what I already have ie the M-Audio BX5's ?

nathanvacha · 4th April 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPF

how does the mackie board work w/ say an m-box w/G5?thnx-JP

Unless you're doing a lot of virtual instruments, i can't think of a reason you'd need a G5 to use an mbox. You could run that on a much lesser computer methinks... ymmv of course.

warhead · 4th April 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPF

sorry,was just kind of asking the thread..looking for a solution to getting a mixer w/ the mbox so i can a-b betwn monitors etc.although mbox has only two outs so maybe upgrade to digi oo1..how about Johnny Few or T bird Toglio?couple of Columbia cats that i used to play with...

Don't know those guys, do you know what bands they play in now?

Quote:

Originally Posted by rokn4jc

Question for Warren: How are the converters on the Mackie firewire interface compared to the RME ? I think the pre's from what I have heard and read will be very usable, as will the eq.

Monitors
I was actually thinking strongly about the Yorkville YSM1. How do these compare (and the other suggstions you made) to what I already have ie the M-Audio BX5's ?

The Mackie converters are really quite good, maybe not quite as cleanish as the RME stuff but very worthy converters. Between the two, I'd buy on features. Neither will stop you from making a great record if you've got talent on the other side of the mic. I really like the preamps and EQ onboard the Onyx.

Skip the YSM1, seriously. If that's your price range those Tascam VL-X5 walk the dog all over the Yorkvilles all day long. The VL-X5 amaze everyone who comes in here to do monitor comparisons, I like the fact that they don't have a sort of faked out low end like some other entry level speakers, and the midrange clarity is very nice as well (which is where they kill the Yorkville). The almost 12" deep cabinets on the Tascams are delivering some killer lows but an overall balanced sound.

Tascam has a real winner on their hands with those.

War

rokn4jc · 4th April 2006

All three monitor options are within the budget. Are the Tannoys worth the extra $ ?

Also, since I need a good live mixer as well, I am pretty much sold on the 1620 (or maybe 1640).

phelbin · 5th April 2006

I have a Shure SM7 and an AT4050...both mics have been mentioned here. I can definitely see that those two mics (plus a 57) could do just about anything I needed. I use the SM7 on electric guitar and voice (depending on the person). And the 4050 is nice for voice, acoustic guitar, cello, drum room, basically anything that needs a clean transparent sound.

With those two mics you're still under $1k and probably have your mic needs covered...at least for now.

31st March 2006	#1
rokn4jc Gear interested Joined: Mar 2006 Location: Plaquemine, LA Posts: 26 Thread Starter	Advice on upgrading project studio on a $3K budget Ok I am soliciting advice on upgrading my new project studio. I am just now completing contruction of a ~ 16 x 24 x 9 room to be used as a project studio, practice/rehearsal space etc. Assume the room has been properly sound-proofed and acoustically treated. Here is what I have M-Audio Delta 66 with Omni i/o M-Audio BX5 monitors Cheap Apex LDC Line 6 Toneport Shure SM57, Beta 58A Sonar 5 PE and some other software and plugins that will be sufficient Hear are my goals: Track Vocals (male/female) in a pop/rock or country/folk style Guitars (Ac and elec), Bass, Keyboards and pretty much most electric and acoustic instruments, with the exception of a full drum kit (for now). Most of the work will initially be 1 -2 tracks at a time with programmed or looped drums. I have been researching as much as possible, and the shear number of choices are pretty overwhelmng, but I have begun to narrow it down a bit. Above all, I want to only purchase gear once, and be able to grow and expand easily as needs change. I will post specific questions in other post, but where is the best place to invest funds ? I am thinking on quality mics and a good preamp or two, and last put money into interface A/D. What would you do in my situation ? thanks

4th April 2006	#10
warhead Jai guru deva om Joined: Feb 2003 Location: South Carolina Posts: 12,253	Honestly for $3k you can get a lot for what you're doing these days. Interface ideas: Presonus Firepod Mackie Onyx 1620 w/ Firewire Explanation = each have quite decent preamps on board and decent conversion. Also, I have found the drivers to be solid for each. Monitor ideas: Tannoy Reveal 5A KRK V6 Tascam VL-X5 Explanation = The Tannoy have the most clarity and are a bit brighter, but are also easy to work with at lower volumes as well. The KRK V6 lose a bit of that high end detail, but have a more present midrange / low end. The Tascam VL-X5 are a very surprising speaker for the money, they kill this Wharfedale stuff all day long and have a very balanced sound without the fake low end going on many entry level speakers give. Microphone ideas: sE Electronics Z5600A CAD M179 Audix i5 MXL 604 pair Explanation = The sE Z5600A is just a great all purpose multi patterned mic that has a little bit of an excited upper midrange that sounds better than real life. Great on vocals, drums, acoustic sources etc. The CAD M179 is a flattish response type of mic, for when you need something more even and balanced, and compliments the Z5600A well as they don't sound the same. The Audix i5 is arguably the nicest dynamic mic around these days...it sounds so good on so many things and kills the SM57. The MXL604 are great on acoustic guitars and will do fine on things like drum overheads. So in a pinch, MXL604 for left and right overheads and Audix i5 in the kick. Vocal pre / DI / compressor limiter expander: Safe Sound Audio P1 Explanation = The P1 keeps dynamics under control and rides vocals / bass in an extremely clean fashion without leaving your tracks sounding beat up. A real nice box for any studio at any price. That's a versatile package and around your budget. Having used all of this stuff this is what I'd consider with the funds available. Best of luck with it. War __________________ Warren Dent, Owner - ZenPro Audio: Gear Now & Zen

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Really need advice for upgrading a project studio...	WATYF	High end	4	12th September 2006 03:28 PM
Building A Budget Project Studio In My Garage - advice required please!	hazza	Low End Theory	10	27th July 2006 08:42 PM
New project studio; advice needed!	Tis	The Good News Channel	2	16th November 2005 06:52 PM
Upgrading studio to rerecord this group...advice? Violin, Flute, piano, vox	Elsteve9	Work In Progress / Advice Requested / Show & Tell / Artist Showcase / Mix-Offs	10	17th October 2005 05:24 AM
Need expertise on upgrading project studio	DavidKmusic	High end	32	12th October 2005 04:59 AM

31st March 2006	#3
Amstel Gear maniac Joined: Dec 2005 Location: the Netherlands Posts: 259	AEA R92 Great River ME-1NV Apogee Rosetta 200 (2nd hand)

31st March 2006	#4
I <3 The Beatle Gear addict Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 322	Why don't I save you some money: Shure SM7 - $300 Octava MC012 (I like these on acoustic guitar) - $150? DAV BG1 (2 chan mic pre) - $650 2 chan Radial JDI (For keyboards/bass and guitar DI) - $330 RME Fireface 400 - Price not released yet, but I would imagine under 1K FXPansion's BFD (for drums) - $300 A new pair of monitors - Event 20/20's maybe.. (I use/like them..I know enough people in here don't) Although the FF400 is not out yet, we know the FF800 is rock solid and RME has a stellar record of making solid sound cards. Although no one has used the converters yet, the Multiface and FF800 both have nice AD/DA. In other words, I trust RME so I don't see it as a shot in the dark.. This, IMHO, is an excellent rig and is capable of great things. BTW, enjoy S5PE. Good choice, that program is amazing. Best of luck

2nd April 2006	#5
I <3 The Beatle Gear addict Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 322	Let me also add an Audio-Technica AT4040 to that list. The SM7 might not always be the best choice for the ladies. It'll be good for guys too..it's versatile. I personally love dynamic microphones on vocals...it's rare I work with females though since I pretty much use it for myself.

3rd April 2006	#6
djbrough Gear addict Joined: Sep 2005 Location: Atlanta Posts: 398	What are the specs of your computer? IT may be the first thing that needs upgrading.

3rd April 2006	#8
ddageek Lives for gear Joined: Nov 2005 Location: Kansas City Posts: 2,673	have fun buy the used trak2 on ebay for 1900 but a dac card in it and buy a 4047 with wats left!

4th April 2006	#11
JPF Gear nut Joined: Apr 2006 Location: Burbank, Earth's molten core Posts: 80	how does the mackie board work w/ say an m-box w/G5?thnx-JP

4th April 2006	#12
warhead Jai guru deva om Joined: Feb 2003 Location: South Carolina Posts: 12,253	I'm a PC guy! War

5th April 2006	#18
phelbin Gear addict Joined: Mar 2006 Location: Redding, CA Posts: 355	I have a Shure SM7 and an AT4050...both mics have been mentioned here. I can definitely see that those two mics (plus a 57) could do just about anything I needed. I use the SM7 on electric guitar and voice (depending on the person). And the 4050 is nice for voice, acoustic guitar, cello, drum room, basically anything that needs a clean transparent sound. With those two mics you're still under $1k and probably have your mic needs covered...at least for now.