15th September 2011
|
#1 | | Gear Head
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 43
Thread Starter | I'm getting too much noise when using Ribbon Mics
Hi all,
EDIT: THE PROBLEM IS NOT THE CASCADE MIC. Turns out it was my interface. Got it repaired and now everything is working perfectly. Michael, the owner of Cascade was very helpful in diagnosing the problem with me over the phone.
----------------------------------------------------
I just purchased a Cascade Fathead with Lundahl transformer and seem to be getting a heck of a lot of "hiss" noise out of it despite being at a very low db level on the preamp (Apogee Duet). The noise is present as soon as the preamp is boosted enough to pickup any sound really, and it is perceived as being about %25 percent as loud as the signal.
I spoke to Michael (of Cascade) on the phone today for maybe 15 minutes to figure out what it is and he says that it can't be the mic, rather the preamp causing the noise. He recommended asking here about possible solutions. (He also recommended their product "The Cloud", a 25 db clean boost) but that is an "if all else fails" scenario because it is quite pricy)
Some things to mention: I'm recording on garageband, I'm using Mogami Cable. On channel 2 of the interface I have a condenser and am getting no noise at all at these recording levels (close to -20 db in the DAW). There is no running air conditioning or anything. I moved the mic around the room to see if there were spots where it was better/worse, no change. I tried this mic on vocals, acoustic guitar, mandolin, fiddle so it's not coming from an amp or anything.
Any help would be greatly appreciated because this mic sounds awesome (except for the noise)
-Ahren
| 
|  | |
15th September 2011
|
#2 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,315
 |
Seems like you shouldn't have to run the gain way up on normally healthy sources like those.
Do you have a dynamic mic to compare it to?
__________________
Wayne Smith
Long time part-time
| |
| | |
15th September 2011
|
#3 | | Gear maniac
Joined: Jul 2011 Location: USA
Posts: 171
|
If you are using phantom power for the condensor, make sure the switch on your interface doesnt engage +48v onto both inputs...i think some interface have the power engage pairs of inputs.
ribbon mics are already noisy to begin with.
You can also crack open the "HEAD" and see if the metal ribbon is sagging badly.
This mic is way overrated. i only use it for overhead supplemental tone. I was a sucker for the hype a few years ago.
| |
| | |
15th September 2011
|
#4 | | Gear Head
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 43
Thread Starter |
Using a 58 (and the same cable) I'm actually getting less signal from the 58 than the Fathead at the same preamp level and actually similar noise on both. Would that imply that I need the "cloud" to raise the signal 25db, or is there a problem somewhere else in the chain?
| |
| | |
15th September 2011
|
#5 | | Gear Head
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 43
Thread Starter |
Rogerdodger,
I'll crack it open this weekend. So far, no phantom power was applied (tuber powered condenser)
As for hype, what ribbon mic would you suggest (same price range)? Thanks!
I guess at this point, it's not really a problem with the Fathead, more with the duet or something in the chain. I've tried to search for people getting noise when recording with dynamic mics into the duet but haven't really found much of anything. Maybe I need the "cloud"?. Any other possibilities?
| |
| | |
15th September 2011
|
#6 | | Gear Guru
Joined: Jul 2006 Location: So Cal
Posts: 14,060
| Quote:
Originally Posted by guitfiddler  Maybe I need the "cloud"?. Any other possibilities? | A Fethead for your Fathead - that's the solution. Around $100 or so.
| |
| | |
15th September 2011
|
#7 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Apr 2007 Location: Maryland
Posts: 5,346
| Quote:
Originally Posted by guitfiddler (He also recommended their product "The Cloud", a 25 db clean boost) but that is an "if all else fails" scenario because it is quite pricy) | Can you return the Cloud if you don't like it? The Cloud, or Fethead, and Power-Plug, are all just fixed-gain preamps. If you the noise is coming from your Fathead, then they're just going to amplify that noise. If it's coming from the preamp, then if you still have headroom, you can lower the preamp gain and decrease the nosie.
While I don't see how Cascade could rule out the Fathead as being the source, I have to say that I've never thought of my Fathead or Fathead II* as being noisy mics. I also agree that the output of the Fathead isn't really all that low compared to other dynamic mics. So, maybe there is a problem with the mic, and you're just cranking the Apogee gain to the point where the noise becomes apparent.
*just an aside, Cascade asserts that these are the same mic, and I have to agree. I really can't tell the difference between the two at all. So if you want to save a couple of $$, just get the Fathead.
__________________
- It looks just like a Telefunken U47 - with leather. You'll love it ...
- Jazz is not dead - it just smells funny.
- It doesn't make much difference how the paint is put on as long as something has been said. Technique is just a means of arriving at a statement.
| |
| | |
15th September 2011
|
#8 | | Gear Guru
Joined: Jul 2006 Location: So Cal
Posts: 14,060
| Quote:
Originally Posted by kafka While I don't see how Cascade could rule out the Fathead as being the source, | Easy from my point of view. There's no active electronics in a fathead, and the OP is experiencing "hiss". That pretty much rules out the FH. Many preamps become exponentially more noisy in the upper end of their range. And that's where you'll end up with a ribbon lots of times. I'd suspect that's what's going on here.
| |
| | |
15th September 2011
|
#9 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,315
| Quote:
Originally Posted by rogerdodger ..This mic is way overrated. i only use it for overhead supplemental tone. I was a sucker for the hype a few years ago. | Not sure about 'hype and all. Gee the mic is just one of those really nice low cost options we have now that does what it does.
..'Fathead, Vintec, R121 here. '121's more forward voiced, a little leaner, but really at $150 and sure a bit different but very usable.
| |
| | |
16th September 2011
|
#10 | | Gear Head
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 43
Thread Starter |
I'm really starting to think that the problem is with the Apogee preamp because there is a considerable amount of noise with dynamic mics too (The duet is new to me and until this point I had only used dynamics on guitar amps so I didn't notice the noise floor on quieter instruments)
I'm going to order a two channel cloud from a retailer that has a return policy so I can test and see if insufficient pre gain is truly the problem. Thanks for the responses!
| |
| | |
16th September 2011
|
#11 | | Gear Guru
Joined: Jul 2006 Location: So Cal
Posts: 14,060
| Quote:
Originally Posted by guitfiddler I'm going to order a two channel cloud from a retailer that has a return policy so I can test and see if insufficient pre gain is truly the problem. Thanks for the responses! | It's absolutely the problem. There are no active electronics in a Fathead to create "hiss" noise. A fethead or cloud will help you with approx 20dB more gain or so.
| |
| | |
22nd September 2011
|
#12 | | Gear Head
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 43
Thread Starter |
PROBLEM SOLVED!
I got the Cloudlifter today and it solved the problem. Now the Fathead and 58's have as much output as my tube condenser (and the noise is gone)!
Thanks slutz!
| |
| | |
22nd September 2011
|
#13 | | Gear nut
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 149
|
Is this a common problem with Duets? I thought the apogee pres were meant to be killer? Is it the A/D that people get them for then?
| |
| | |
22nd September 2011
|
#14 | | Gear Head
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 43
Thread Starter |
Yeah, I thought it was the mic BECAUSE people rave about the duet. Don't know what's up with that...
| |
| | |
22nd September 2011
|
#15 | | Gear Guru
Joined: Jul 2006 Location: So Cal
Posts: 14,060
|
All passive ribbon mics need a LOT of gain. Very few pre's built into converters have enough juice to do the job. Even a lot of dedicated high end mic pre's need some help....
| |
| | |
22nd September 2011
|
#16 | | Gear nut
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 149
|
I get that but bad noise on a 58? sounds dodgy to me.
| |
| | |
23rd September 2011
|
#17 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Sep 2010 Location: Miami Beach Florida
Posts: 1,567
|
The CloudLifter just boosted your low output ribbon, most audio interfaces pres dont have the horsepower to boost them properly and hense the hiss when the pre is cranked all the way up, so a Fethead or Cloudlifter is a great tool for ribbons and also low gain dynamics such as the sm7b with those low gain built in preamps ...
__________________
Yellow Sound Barn Productions
| |
| | |
23rd September 2011
|
#19 | | Gear nut
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 149
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimsi The CloudLifter just boosted your low output ribbon, most audio interfaces pres dont have the horsepower to boost them properly and hense the hiss when the pre is cranked all the way up, so a Fethead or Cloudlifter is a great tool for ribbons and also low gain dynamics such as the sm7b with those low gain built in preamps ... | Or a 58? I don't want to appear facetious but it sounds like something is wrong with the OPs Appogee.
| |
| | |
24th September 2011
|
#20 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Apr 2007 Location: Maryland
Posts: 5,346
| Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill Easy from my point of view. There's no active electronics in a fathead, and the OP is experiencing "hiss". That pretty much rules out the FH. Many preamps become exponentially more noisy in the upper end of their range. And that's where you'll end up with a ribbon lots of times. I'd suspect that's what's going on here. | Good point. hiss = heat, i.e. a current across a resistance, which doesn't occur in a dynamic, that has been amplified.
| |
| | |
24th September 2011
|
#21 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Feb 2005 Location: Austin,Tx
Posts: 1,594
|
It's unfair to companies like Cascade when clueless people start/ title threads like this.
No, the FH is not a noisy mic and in this case of 110% PILOT ERROR it's unfair to create a false and deflamatory title that will come up when ever someone searches for cascade fathead.
Something to consider next time, as you learn the craft.
On a more positive note, now you can move the mic off the source (8" to 15") which is where it shines often times.
| |
| | |
28th September 2011
|
#22 | | Gear Head
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 43
Thread Starter | Quote:
Originally Posted by Tone Laborer It's unfair to companies like Cascade when clueless people start/ title threads like this.
No, the FH is not a noisy mic and in this case of 110% PILOT ERROR it's unfair to create a false and deflamatory title that will come up when ever someone searches for cascade fathead.
Something to consider next time, as you learn the craft.
On a more positive note, now you can move the mic off the source (8" to 15") which is where it shines often times. | If you like, I would not mind editing the title. How about "Ribbon Mic noise"?
| |
| | |
28th September 2011
|
#23 | | Gear Guru
Joined: Jul 2006 Location: So Cal
Posts: 14,060
| Quote:
Originally Posted by guitfiddler How about "Ribbon Mic noise"? | Nope. Not really a good title if you want to attract solid help. How about...."my mic pre is making noise when I use Ribbon mics", or "I'm getting too much noise when using Ribbon Mics".  | |
| | |
28th September 2011
|
#24 | | Gear Head
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 43
Thread Starter |
I'm cool with that but I'll let Tone Laborer decide the appropriate name since he is the one who took issue with it.
| |
| | |
28th September 2011
|
#25 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Feb 2005 Location: Austin,Tx
Posts: 1,594
|
I'm not a moderator and I have no power to edit your posts or title.
Look, it seems like an honest mistake and I'm not trying to tear you a new one over it, but I'm sure you would not like being blamed for something that wasn't your fault, in public, no less. It's not the end of the world, but you seem like a reasonable person, one that might learn from their mistakes.
I also agree with an above poster, if your speaking / singing into a SM58, you should have adequate clean gain from your duet, cloudlifter, or no cloudlifter.
So there's something screwball here, but I knoweth not what.
| |
| | |
29th September 2011
|
#26 | | Gear Head
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 43
Thread Starter | Quote:
Originally Posted by Tone Laborer I'm not a moderator and I have no power to edit your posts or title.
Look, it seems like an honest mistake and I'm not trying to tear you a new one over it, but I'm sure you would not like being blamed for something that wasn't your fault, in public, no less. It's not the end of the world, but you seem like a reasonable person, one that might learn from their mistakes.
I also agree with an above poster, if your speaking / singing into a SM58, you should have adequate clean gain from your duet, cloudlifter, or no cloudlifter.
So there's something screwball here, but I knoweth not what. | Oh, by that I just meant I'll let you suggest an alternative title and i'll edit it. Yeah, I'm just a noob trying to get some recordings off the ground. Thanks for all the help!
| |
| | |
4th October 2011
|
#27 | | Gear Head
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 43
Thread Starter |
So turns out that I don't know how to change the title of the thread.
I have tracked down the problem to the Apogee Duet of all things! I talked to Apogee tech support today and they told me to send it in for repair.
I did as much research and testing as possible before calling tech support and for others in my situation I'd like to list the problems and exactly what I tried (to no avail)
Problem: Intermittent noise/crackle/pop/hiss on xlr mic input channels. This happened especially when the phantom power from either channel was on. Also, pre 2 seemed to be giving less output than pre 1. Also, this noise was present even if there were no xlr's plugged in
I tried: lifting the ground, reinstalled the driver, used a different computer, toggled the breakout cables, etc.
I also tried turning the phantom power on and off several times, sometimes this worked to clear up the noise but not always. I also toggled the gain from min to max several times, same result.
Jay at Apogee said to just send it in, I've heard horror stories about Apogee repairs but I'll report back when I get the repaired Duet. Thanks for all your help everyone!
| |
| | | |
New Reply 
