Should I Dump the Gear and Replace?

[CassidyGT]

I have been thinking after reading this forum for awhile. I think my signal chain is garbage.

LDC Mics - MXL v57m
Studio Project C3

Pres - Focusrite Trackmaster Pro
ART TPS II

Comp - ART TCS

EQ - ART 341 15 Band Graphic

Clearly I bought into the whole ART thing -

After reading many posts and considering my limited means (which means no Neve, Manley etc. for me) I am thinking of selling all of it and replacing with:

AT4050
FMR RNP
FMR RNC (x2)
Speck ASC EQ (x2)

I know this is better equipment - but will the sound justify the $1700 difference after selling the old gear? That's the big question.

Is the addition of the EQ's going to make that big a difference? Those are by far the biggest expenditures.

I go through a MOTU 828 II that is scheduled to be modded by Black Lion late this month. From what I understand, I think I should be happy with the conversion.

Thanks

[SUPA FROST]

If I were you I would start from the ground up and get better converters. You can even go with MOTU's HD192 interface if you're into motu gear. They definitely have an Hi End sound. I had the HD192 interface once I think they sound great. Just try to get the best converters you can afford, a good clock (e.g. Apogee Big Ben) and then go thfrom there.

Good Luck!

[CassidyGT]

From what I understand, I thought the Black Lion mod on the 828 MkII would be a significant improvment and be as good as the conversion on the HD 192

[SUPA FROST]

Originally Posted by CassidyGT

From what I understand, I thought the Black Lion mod on the 828 MkII would be a significant improvment and be as good as the conversion on the HD 192

I don't know, you could be right, but I haven't heard a modded 828 MKII, nor have I had a chance to A/B one up against an Motu HD192.

[Wayne]

Of course the comp and eq can be left out of the chain when not needed.thumbsup
Wayne

[CassidyGT]

Wayne - So you are saying that I would be better off getting the RNP first before the Comps and Eqs? I was thinking of using the pre's on my MOTU after the mod and then getting everything before the RNP. You're thinking I should go RNP first? I do also have a VTB-1 which I think is pretty good and am keeping.

[nathanvacha]

I would say pre- first. I can't see the rnc having a better effect on your sound than a preamp... If you have a decent mic-decent pre-decent converters, that's better than mic-compressor-pre on your interface, right? And if you're budget conscious, do you need two rnc's?

[Eric Dahlberg]

Have you considered DSP cards instead of outboard compressors & EQ's? The RNC & ASC are great utility units but they don't have the sound quality or versatility you'd get with UAD-1 plug-ins. As long as you're recording at 24-bit, you don't need to worry too much about getting the signal into the computer as hot as possible (especially if the Black Lion mod turns out to be as great as everyone says it is).

The AT4050 & RNP are undisputably great choices. However, the 828 already has decent clean preamps built-in so you may want to think about adding a pre with more color for variety.

[deuc647]

I would second the better converters and spend as much as possible, i used a delta 44 for about 3 years, then graduated from college and bought the rosetta 200 and i didnt justify the cost at first, but after tracking 1 complete song and mixing, i compared it to my old recordings and the clarity, depth, and stereo imaging was crazy. i would have saved for them a long time ago if i knew it was gonna be like that.

[Wayne]

Originally Posted by CassidyGT

Wayne - So you are saying that I would be better off getting the RNP first before the Comps and Eqs? I was thinking of using the pre's on my MOTU after the mod and then getting everything before the RNP. You're thinking I should go RNP first? I do also have a VTB-1 which I think is pretty good and am keeping.

I'm sorry. I was probably stating an obvious. If at any time those don't need to be in there, that's the shortest, cleanest and cheapest way to go.
I'd prefer comp going in in some cases, eq less often, and making most of the fine tuning within the mix.
I'm happy Just to getting it in clean though.
Wayne

[ddageek]

Labs is right you need to find what works for you!
In the low end that is little harder than in the highend!
My advice if this for makeing recordings of your self take some time and find first and foremost the Mic?pre and monitor systems that WORK FOR YOU!
Buying blindly is just going to set you up for more disapointment!
Oer the years I have found that you can't go wrong if the transducers and amplifcation stages give you the sound you want! thes two systems are where most of the distortion occurs so puting prioity here makes the most sence and will also yeild for dollar spent the most impact on your sound!
Everything else makes a small differance but not a huge one!

[CassidyGT]

Well -Thanks for all the replies everyone. Alot to think about.

From upgrading converters - (expensive) to just keeping the stuff I have (cheapest) to somewhere inbetween.

I am as uncertain as ever -

You know - I used to use a Digi 001 into PT and those were the best recordings I ever made. Crisp, clean. Just used the Digi 001 pres and Waves plugs for effects. Went straight in analog from my old Yamaha s03, Roland drum machine, my MXL v57 mic, crappy Yamaha acoustic - just a bunch of stuff I pulled together.

Can't seem to get that clean crisp sound despite the fact that I have spent alot more $.

Man - maybe I should just get a Digi 001 again.

[AdamJay]

from what i've heard of audio examples of the Motu upgrade, it is totally worth it. I would stay the course and get that upgrade.
and the AT4050 is a great mic for the price. I see a new one on eBay right now for $410 buy it now.

EQ is one thing i dont mind doing inside the box if i have to. Sonalksis and URS make great software EQs at low prices.

I would spend the rest on an RNLA<$225> (i have 3 RNLA's, they are like RNC's but have way more balls at higher GR levels.) and one good, quality preamp, such as the Great River ME1NV, or Phoenix DRS-1. ($1075-$1200, respectively, less 2nd hand) These preamps make okay mics sound great and great mics sound fantastic. You'll get a much larger sonic advantage spending a grand on a great preamp than a pair of Speck EQ's (no diss to the EQ's)

When on a budget, i tend to look towards eBay and Gearslutz classifieds instead of buying new. And alot of times you'll get new stuff for $100 or $200 less on eBay.

Buy smart, and good luck!

[nathanvacha]

Originally Posted by CassidyGT

Well -Thanks for all the replies everyone. Alot to think about.

From upgrading converters - (expensive) to just keeping the stuff I have (cheapest) to somewhere inbetween.

I am as uncertain as ever -

You know - I used to use a Digi 001 into PT and those were the best recordings I ever made. Crisp, clean. Just used the Digi 001 pres and Waves plugs for effects. Went straight in analog from my old Yamaha s03, Roland drum machine, my MXL v57 mic, crappy Yamaha acoustic - just a bunch of stuff I pulled together.

Can't seem to get that clean crisp sound despite the fact that I have spent alot more $.

Man - maybe I should just get a Digi 001 again.

Hate to muck things up for you further, but i have heard several people who still swear by 001's and use a couple nice converters also... You don't necesarily need the latest and greatest to get good sound. If something was working for you before, why not step back untill you're ready to confidently take a big step forward.

[CassidyGT]

I wonder if SONAR would recognize the Digi 001?

As for a high end pre - I do alot of acoustic and use two mics so I would need 2 pres in the box I think. A Great River MP-2NV is over $2K - out of my range. I thought the RNP would be comparable to pres costing alot more - not as good as Great River stuff for sure .... but the best I could get under $1K.

[nathanvacha]

Originally Posted by CassidyGT

...I thought the RNP would be comparable to pres costing alot more - not as good as Great River stuff for sure .... but the best I could get under $1K.

Well, that's the word on the street...

Originally Posted by CassidyGT

I wonder if SONAR would recognize the Digi 001?...

It should. I think.