Any recent opinions regarding M Audio DSM Monitors?

[Johnny Plant]

I've been thinking about the digital input issue and I guess that if you absolutely must use it, and given that there is no external device or remote that would allow you to comfortably and conveniently control the monitor's volume trim, the safest thing to do would be to set the monitors' volume trim at a relatively low level so that even a blast coming from the pc at full volume gets attenuated to a relatively safe volume, in other words, you are setting a limit and lowering the absolute output of the speakers.

You could calibrate this by using pink noise and some loud songs, you begin with the monitor's volume trim at the lowest setting, then bring up all computer faders slowly to the max to make sure that it isn't too loud, and start bringing up the monitor's volume trim from there until it is uncomfortably but not destructively loud, that way a sudden blast would be annoying, maybe even a bit painful, but not catastrophic.

Of course, I don't know if lowering the monitor's volume trim more than is necessary would somehow degrade the signal or affect the sound in any negative way, I guess we need to experiment.

And you would need to make sure that the degree of attenuation is not reset when you turn on the monitors again, that would be the only danger.

[Hricco]

OK,

I haven't pulled the trigger yet, I'm still pining over the DSM2 or DSM3...I think I'm going to go with the DSM3.

But I already own BM5A Dynaudio's 6.5 inch drivers on both

Would the DSM3 be a good secondary pair of monitors to compliment the BM5A's I'm liking what I'm hearing about he mid rang clarity of the DSM3

Also the Digital Inputs issue seems a little annoying.

BudgetMC. Do you have your hooked up analog or digital?

HAve any of the great reviews come from anyone that has hooked them up using the Digital inputs or are they all Analog hook ups?

[Johnny Plant]

Originally Posted by Hricco

OK,

I haven't pulled the trigger yet, I'm still pining over the DSM2 or DSM3...I think I'm going to go with the DSM3.

But I already own BM5A Dynaudio's 6.5 inch drivers on both

Would the DSM3 be a good secondary pair of monitors to compliment the BM5A's I'm liking what I'm hearing about he mid rang clarity of the DSM3

Also the Digital Inputs issue seems a little annoying.

BudgetMC. Do you have your hooked up analog or digital?

HAve any of the great reviews come from anyone that has hooked them up using the Digital inputs or are they all Analog hook ups?

I'm under the impression that most reviews are based on analog input use, so you probably shouldn't worry about it, if they sound better with the digital ins, well that's a plus and an option you have, but it would seem that most people are quite happy with the sound and performance they are getting from the analog inputs.

[Greg B]

Originally Posted by MadGuitrst

Hey Greg B!
All of your points are well taken; however, while I would not recommend people ignore facts I would always advise them to trust their ears.

I agree. What I've suggested in the posts is that it's a good idea to compare the analog and digital inputs and see how much of a difference you hear. I have heard from others that they heard a significant improvement using the digital inputs and just wanted to pass that on.

Originally Posted by MadGuitrst

I have a simple philosophy: peruse the specs but trust my ears.
My ears tell me these speakers sound good and that's all I need to know.

The main job of reference monitors it not to sound good, but to sound accurate (meaning they show you the bad as accurately as the good). I choose monitors like I choose friends, I prefer they give it to me straight rather than shower me with false compliments. Do your monitors sound great, or do they help your mixes sound great? For example, if your monitors have a little extra bass, a little extra highs which boost their clarity, and some sweet mids, you will tend to produce mixes that are light on bass, sound kinda muddy, and have harsh mids.

Again, I'm not saying the DSM monitors don't translate well. I've heard them (and liked them) and have a friend that's done some excellent work on DSM-2s. I'm just making a point that accurate monitors are what allows trusting your ears to be possible. And if you ARE someone that wants to hear the wings on a butterfly, and maybe buy ultra high-end DA converters later on down the line, they might not be the right monitors for you.

[claend]

So the special price is only available in USA? Does ayone know a EU retailer with a similar price? DV247 and the likes are around 687,05 € each speaker?

[Greg B]

Originally Posted by sardi

Digi 002, although it shouldn't matter as most interfaces with a monitor out wouldn't have a separate control for the SPDIF output.

I'm all ears on a digital volume controller.

I use an RME Fireface UFX and the Totalmix software can be controlled by virtually any MIDI controller. Some guys are using the Frontier Tranzport control to adjust volume, dim, talkback, play/stop/record, etc. all WIRELESSLY which I think is really cool. If your interface monitoring software supports Mackie protocol, then you can control the digital outputs with a controller or even assign keyboard keys such as using up/down arrows for volume (or whatever keys you assign). So if I had the DSM monitors I would set up a MIDI controller so that a fader or knob would turn the S/PDIF output up and down.

[MadGuitrst]

Originally Posted by Greg B

The main job of reference monitors it not to sound good, but to sound accurate (meaning they show you the bad as accurately as the good).

Agreed 100%. That's what I was trying to imply but I guess I should have stated it more clearly, although in my mother posts I basically said that, so.....

Anyway, back to our regularly scheduled program.

[BudgetMC]

Originally Posted by Hricco

OK,

I haven't pulled the trigger yet, I'm still pining over the DSM2 or DSM3...I think I'm going to go with the DSM3.

But I already own BM5A Dynaudio's 6.5 inch drivers on both

Would the DSM3 be a good secondary pair of monitors to compliment the BM5A's I'm liking what I'm hearing about he mid rang clarity of the DSM3

Also the Digital Inputs issue seems a little annoying.

BudgetMC. Do you have your hooked up analog or digital?

HAve any of the great reviews come from anyone that has hooked them up using the Digital inputs or are they all Analog hook ups?

I don't have any experience with the BM5As, so I can't make that comparison.

My DSM3s have been hooked up analogue 99% of the time here, and almost all my comments have been based on the analogue sound. I did briefly run them digitally, and my response was not "oh my goodness NOW they REALLY sound good." It was more like, "hmmm... that may indeed be a bit more clear, even."

[Greg B]

Originally Posted by MadGuitrst

Agreed 100%. That's what I was trying to imply but I guess I should have stated it more clearly, although in my mother posts I basically said that, so.....

Yeah, I didn't mean to sound like I was debating you, cause I know YOU know what to look for in a monitor. I just feel like it can't be repeated enough around here. So many people buying monitors because they simply sounded "the best" out of the models they compared. It's nice to have pleasant monitors to work with, but if you just buy what sounds best, you might get the worst mixes.

[Johnny Plant]

Originally Posted by Greg B

I use an RME Fireface UFX and the Totalmix software can be controlled by virtually any MIDI controller. Some guys are using the Frontier Tranzport control to adjust volume, dim, talkback, play/stop/record, etc. all WIRELESSLY which I think is really cool. If your interface monitoring software supports Mackie protocol, then you can control the digital outputs with a controller or even assign keyboard keys such as using up/down arrows for volume (or whatever keys you assign). So if I had the DSM monitors I would set up a MIDI controller so that a fader or knob would turn the S/PDIF output up and down.

Hi Greg, I have totalmix too, but I think using a midi controller would still be managing software and levels from within the computer, just exchanging the mouse for a controller.

Are there any other digital level control solutions that your clients and friends are using?

Is there some sort of physical digital attenuator that can be inserted into the digital path between the computer and the monitors? Something that would be fully independent from computer crashes?

I still think that a device that would allow you to control the monitors' own internal levels from your desk would be the best solution, they should have thought of that, specially after so many people complained about the lack of such a device for the digidesign rm1 and 2 (which were probably discontinued for the same reasons that the dsms are now being discontinued).

I think the dynaudio AIR monitors have such a device (although I do realize that those are much more expensive).

[hereticskeptic]

So, I've definitely decided to get a pair today, but still haven't decided on DSM2 vs DSM3.

It sounds like there may be more mid-range clarity with the DSM3 model, which is intriguing.

Also, it looks like there is more bass extension with the DSM2 model (user guide specs list frequency response at -3db for all three models, so I'm kind of going with those specs).

I'm not as concerned about the $100 difference, as I am getting the best monitors out of this amazing deal. I am working in the Hip Hop genre, and thus bass is important. Still, having a pair of HS80Ms, I 'm kind of thinking that getting the pair with more mid-range clarity would be smarter, since the HS80Ms do have a solid bass response (imo).

I wish there was someone in her who'd tested both models, so we could confirm whether the DSM3 truly has more mid-range clarity than the DSM2 model, or if the DSM series itself has equal mid-range clarity among all models.

I know, I know, I'm far too analytical. I was born this way. It's not my fault, hahaha! By night's end, I will make my decision.

[Greg B]

Originally Posted by Johnny Plant

Hi Greg, I have totalmix too, but I think using a midi controller would still be managing software and levels from within the computer, just exchanging the mouse for a controller.

Are there any other digital level control solutions that your clients and friends are using?

Is there some sort of physical digital attenuator that can be inserted into the digital path between the computer and the monitors? Something that would be fully independent from computer crashes?

On the UFX you can assign the main output knob to the AES/SPDIF output and the knob will attenuate the digital output. It works standalone from the computer (even if the computer crashes or is turned off). I'm not sure how many other interfaces have that feature. I'm looking for an inline SPDIF volume control but havn't found one yet. It's generally only helpful with digital monitors like the DSMs, so there probably isn't a huge demand for them.

[Johnny Plant]

Originally Posted by hereticskeptic

So, I've definitely decided to get a pair today, but still haven't decided on DSM2 vs DSM3.

It sounds like there may be more mid-range clarity with the DSM3 model, which is intriguing.

Also, it looks like there is more bass extension with the DSM2 model (user guide specs list frequency response at -3db for all three models, so I'm kind of going with those specs).

I'm not as concerned about the $100 difference, as I am getting the best monitors out of this amazing deal. I am working in the Hip Hop genre, and thus bass is important. Still, having a pair of HS80Ms, I 'm kind of thinking that getting the pair with more mid-range clarity would be smarter, since the HS80Ms do have a solid bass response (imo).

I wish there was someone in her who'd tested both models, so we could confirm whether the DSM3 truly has more mid-range clarity than the DSM2 model, or if the DSM series itself has equal mid-range clarity among all models.

I know, I know, I'm far too analytical. I was born this way. It's not my fault, hahaha! By night's end, I will make my decision.

I'm just speculating, but usually 6.5 ' drivers produce clearer mids than 8 inchers, at least that has been the case with series having both sizes that I've been able to compare, but nothing is written in stone, and reviews for the DSM2s have been quite favorable with regard to mids, maybe the woofer is very light and stiff, I don't know.

Also, in theory, the DSM3s should be able to put out a little bit more bass due to the combined surface of both 6.5 ' drivers, but again, may not always be the case.

But as Mad Guitarist said, the difference in bass output between DSM3 and DSM2 would most likely be hard to detect (if we go by the general idea provided by the specs).

I read somewhere, though, that the DSM3s are a little bit louder.

But like I said, I have no hard facts at all, I'm just theorizing and repeating stuff I've read elsewhere.

[Johnny Plant]

Originally Posted by Greg B

On the UFX you can assign the main output knob to the AES/SPDIF output and the knob will attenuate the digital output. It works standalone from the computer (even if the computer crashes or is turned off). I'm not sure how many other interfaces have that feature. I'm looking for an inline SPDIF volume control but havn't found one yet. It's generally only helpful with digital monitors like the DSMs, so there probably isn't a huge demand for them.

UFX is way too expensive for me right now, but I'm going to check to see if there is something from rme, some add-on board or external device, that would work with my hdsp9632.

[Greg B]

Originally Posted by hereticskeptic

I wish there was someone in her who'd tested both models, so we could confirm whether the DSM3 truly has more mid-range clarity than the DSM2 model, or if the DSM series itself has equal mid-range clarity among all models.

Yes, the DSM-3 has a little more in the mid-range because of the dual 6.5" drivers. It also has the biggest "sweet spot" for the same reason. I have used both. The DSM-2 with the 8" will actually give you worse bass response in small room/near-field use. 8" drivers are borderline mid-field monitors and should be used in bigger spaces and a little further back from listening position.

[Johnny Plant]

Dudes, Greg, you WILL NOT BELIEVE what I have found.

tc electronic BMC-2 Digital Audio Converter and 967-420011 B&H

http://www.tcelectronic.com/media/BMC2_manual_US.pdf

It has what I was talking about, digital volume control independent from the pc for digital speakers, PLUS, a nice dac and analog volume control for regular speakers, switchable between the two.

The bad news, it costs $450, seems like it used to be $299.00 a couple of years ago. If anybody finds it for that price let me know!

[Hricco]

Ok.

Just ordered a pair of DSM3. However. Just so you know. I ordered from Music 123. They beat the audiomidi deal by 100 bucks. I ordered the monitors at 249.00 each a set of decent shielded cables. And they gave me a set of Mo-pads for 35.00. So for less than the audiomidi deal. I got lots of stuff for about 550.00. Cant wait to get them!!!

Thanks for the input.

[hereticskeptic]

Originally Posted by Johnny Plant

I'm just speculating, but usually 6.5 ' drivers produce clearer mids than 8 inchers, at least that has been the case with series having both sizes that I've been able to compare, but nothing is written in stone, and reviews for the DSM2s have been quite favorable with regard to mids, maybe the woofer is very light and stiff, I don't know.

Also, in theory, the DSM3s should be able to put out a little bit more bass due to the combined surface of both 6.5 ' drivers, but again, may not always be the case.

But as Mad Guitarist said, the difference in bass output between DSM3 and DSM2 would most likely be hard to detect (if we go by the general idea provided by the specs).

I read somewhere, though, that the DSM3s are a little bit louder.

But like I said, I have no hard facts at all, I'm just theorizing and repeating stuff I've read elsewhere.

Indeed, I hear you, for sure.

I actually posted a new thread in the M-Audio forums, asking for clarification on the correct frequency response of the DSM3 model. I do kind of think the DSM3's bass should be at least as present as the DSM2 model, regardless of specs, with those four woofers, versus two DSM2 woofers.

I'll wait for a response (hopefully) from an M-Audio mod, but am starting to lean towards the DSM3. Someone else said earlier, what I'm thinking right now: Why not get the top of the line model, at this price point?!

I'm becoming less concerned about the DSM3s in a smallish room as well. I've got a treated room, and will definitely be adding more treatment at the beginning of next year.

When/if I get confirmation on those specs, I'll most certainly inform you guys.

[hereticskeptic]

Originally Posted by Greg B

Yes, the DSM-3 has a little more in the mid-range because of the dual 6.5" drivers. It also has the biggest "sweet spot" for the same reason. I have used both. The DSM-2 with the 8" will actually give you worse bass response in small room/near-field use. 8" drivers are borderline mid-field monitors and should be used in bigger spaces and a little further back from listening position.

Word up! I've been reading as much as I can about MTM vs MT designs, and this does seem to be the consensus.

I mean, many people report no problems with 8" woofers, but they do report less problems with the dual woofers. Even with a treated room, the room is still small, so any help would be welcome.

Another + for the DSM3s.

[hereticskeptic]

Originally Posted by Hricco

Ok.

Just ordered a pair of DSM3. However. Just so you know. I ordered from Music 123. They beat the audiomidi deal by 100 bucks. I ordered the monitors at 249.00 each a set of decent shielded cables. And they gave me a set of Mo-pads for 35.00. So for less than the audiomidi deal. I got lots of stuff for about 550.00. Cant wait to get them!!!

Thanks for the input.

Nice!

I've got a $498 for the pair of DSM3s quote sitting in my email inbox, as well as a $398 for the DSM2s. Just waiting to pull the trigger. Won't have enough for the SM3s until later this week, and I think I'm gonna go with those.

[BudgetMC]

Originally Posted by hereticskeptic

Nice!

I've got a $498 for the pair of DSM3s quote sitting in my email inbox, as well as a $398 for the DSM2s. Just waiting to pull the trigger. Won't have enough for the SM3s until later this week, and I think I'm gonna go with those.

I hearby declare this to be an epic deal.

[hereticskeptic]

Originally Posted by BudgetMC

I hearby declare this to be an epic deal.

[BudgetMC]

Headed down to the studio right now for a tracking date. Might even squeeze in a bit of mixing before the night is over... lookin' forward to using the DSM3s.

PS: They seem to qualify as eye candy for clients, so far.

[Greg B]

Originally Posted by Johnny Plant

Dudes, Greg, you WILL NOT BELIEVE what I have found.

http://www.tcelectronic.com/media/BMC2_manual_US.pdf

It has what I was talking about, digital volume control independent from the pc for digital speakers, PLUS, a nice dac and analog volume control for regular speakers, switchable between the two.

The bad news, it costs $450, seems like it used to be $299.00 a couple of years ago. If anybody finds it for that price let me know!

Looks really cool Johnny! I think I have some clients that will be interested in that. Perhaps a bit spendy but would be a better investment than spending much more on high-end DA converters since you're eliminating two conversions all together by going that route.

[hereticskeptic]

Woooow. And I just spent the same amount on a custom monitor controller from NF Audio. Wondering if it's worth selling it and getting one of these. If what's being said about the D/A conversion is true, it would be a much better investment, as I don't plan on upgrading from the DSM3s for a long, long time.

How does one hook this controller up? I don't quite get it. I get the analog outs and digital outs (perfect for my two sets of monitors), but what does the controller itself connect to, and with what cable? I'm assuming this doesn't connect to one's interface?

Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using Gearslutz.com App

[Greg B]

Originally Posted by hereticskeptic

How does one hook this controller up? I don't quite get it. I get the analog outs and digital outs (perfect for my two sets of monitors), but what does the controller itself connect to, and with what cable? I'm assuming this doesn't connect to one's interface?

For this purpose you would basicly just send your SPDIF output from your interface into the SPDIF input on the BMC-2. Connect the SPDIF out on the BMC-2 to the DSM digital inputs. Then use the BMC-2 for volume control.

[hereticskeptic]

Okay, that makes sense. I just could've sworn I saw someone mention there being no digital ins. Gotcha though.

Looks like I either have to run through two extra conversion stages, or sell my custom controller and grab something like this BC-2.

Damn gear....haha

Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using Gearslutz.com App

[hereticskeptic]

Originally Posted by Greg B

Connect the SPDIF out on the BMC-2 to the DSM digital inputs. Then use the BMC-2 for volume control.

So, would you need a splitter from the one spdif to the two monitors? Never used spdif before.

[kesslerjesus]

Originally Posted by hereticskeptic

So, would you need a splitter from the one spdif to the two monitors? Never used spdif before.

I'm guessing only two SPDIF cables. One from your interface to the back of a Monitor, and another going from the SPDIF THRU output of that first monitors onto the second

[sasjf]

Originally Posted by hereticskeptic

So, would you need a splitter from the one spdif to the two monitors? Never used spdif before.

Each monitor has a spdif thru so you would not need a splitter but you would need two cables.