Any recent opinions regarding M Audio DSM Monitors?

[aman74]

Originally Posted by BudgetMC

Oh hot diggity... mine are here.

Let us know how you like them.

Also, wanted to ask again about the 2 vs. 3. The 2 has more bass right? Not sure what the advantage to the design of the 3 is. I probably won't be running a sub.

[BudgetMC]

Ostensibly, the big advantage of the 3/MTM layout is that it achieves lots of bass without sacrificing mid-range clarity, while also providing a wider sweet spot.

I'm working my way through my CD collection right now A/Bing the DSP3s against my Blue Skys and Tannoys. I'm on The Ragpicker's Dream right now. I'll be back with more detailed comments in a beer or two...

[BudgetMC]

OkeeDokee... I got in about two hours of listening before I had to shut it down for the night. I knocked my way through an assortment of Stax tunes (Green Onions, baby!), through some classic rock (Band on the Run and Sticky Fingers) to the aformentioned Mark Knofler, to some Xavier Rudd and then Morcheeba and Supream Beings of Leisure so as to work out the bass.

Overall, I have to say I was very pleased. I was A/B'ing them against my Blue Sky Mediadesk and Tannoys (black woofer Reveals and Comets) pretty much the whole way through.

My main impressions are:

Detail: One of the things I always look for in a speaker is stuff I haven't heard before. These speakers offered up a number of Gems. These include:
-- pick noise on the acoustic guitar in "Band on the Run"
-- a previously unheard "Uhg!" at the beginning of "Can't You Hear Me Knockin'"
-- 60's era bass. The bass on a lot of older stuff, which tends to be more mid-rangy than bottom-heavy, really came through. This was clear on both the Stax stuff and the early Stones material.

Ballance: While the Blue Sky's tend to highlight the low end and get a bit thick and vague in crossover territory of the low-mids, and the Tannoys seem to go light on the bottom and highlight the high end, the DSP3's seemed to strike a happy medium. This is pretty much what I was hoping for. The bass was nice and solid (though it didn't match the Blue Sky's sub for low-end extension), and the mid-range was very nice. The highs, at this point, still seem a wee bit harsh, but these are brand-new tweeters, and it isn't fair to evaluate them too harshly until they've had a chance to open up and mellow a bit.

Another observation is that the imaging is very good. I picked up some stereo percussion stuff while listening to Xavier Rudd's Food in the Belly that hadn't been evident before. Also, the sweet spot IS bigger than that of my other monitors. I have all-too-often suffered a bit of back strain trying to sit extra straight to remain in the Tannoy Reveal's sweet spot, in particular. I found myself happily slouching while listening to the M-Audios.

I did not, btw, find the DSP3's too "nice" to listen too. I don't think I would choose them to put on tunes just for chillin' out. That's, IMHO, for speakers that have enough smear factor to "glue" everything together... these did a good job of keeping the various components discrete. In the old Stax stuff, for example, I could hear the various backup singers as individuals, while on my KRK R5g2's and "New Big Advents" they all merge into a single chorus. Now, I like background singers acting as a chorus when I'm listening for pleasure... but if I'm mixin I wanna hear everybody on their own.

So them's my initial comments. BTW... this was while using analog inputs. I have an Event ESW-1 switcher that lets me toggle between up to six pairs of analog speakers, so I went with that for the initial listen. But, I'm going to try out the digital inputs soon to see what they have to offer.

Initial upshot? I'm pleased as punch that I got these for less than $600.

[Heartfelt]

Cool, first listen tonight as well. Only low volume so far. I will crank them
tomorrow.

First impressions, coming from Mackie 824's (1st gen) and Yamaha HS80's:

The sound is overall balanced. The mids are not forward, as are the Yam's.
The bass is present but not boomy in any way, as are the Mackies. I
expected them to sound very open, as they are billed as Adam killers but
perhaps compared to the Yam's my perception is skewed. They seemed a hair
closed... reminded me of KRK demos.

Listening to my prog-country reference tracks(Niebank(m)/Huff(p)),
Everything seemed to sit together well. Nothing stuck out, at first glance. I
could hear everything and get a glimpse of each instruments tonal range...
better than my Yams. It also seemed that despite the forward nature of the
Yam's, the DSM2's gave a hair more sibilance on vocals. That caught me by
surprise. It wasn't bad and might better be explained as detail.

Continuing, the overall sound was not pretty. They didn't sound polished or
hyped at all.

I then pulled up one of my tracks. As I A/B'd with a reference, I immediately
noticed my track was unnecessarily thick. I spotted a rogue bass level, too
much bottom on electric guitars and a buildup here and there on the vocals.

Then the snare hit me between the eyes as I realized it was too hot and I
had too much verb on the kit, overall. That led to another discovery and that
was being able to hear effects more clearly. I then decided I hated the
compression on the two buss and viola... time to remix that song from
scratch.

What does this mean to me?

I am hearing things better and with that, I can tell I will have to work harder
to get a mix slamming. They have revealed problems caused by the Yam's (to
be expected) and prove to be a great step up.

[blacklion]

Originally Posted by Heartfelt

Then the snare hit me between the eyes as I realized it was too hot and I
had too much verb on the kit, overall. That led to another discovery and that was being able to hear effects more clearly.

I noticed that about a couple of mixes too on the DSM3s.

Over the weekend I tried the DSM3s setup horizontally. Didn't like it personally and found it unnecessary since the sweetspot is just fine setup vertically as they are intended.

My one criticism right now is that I wish the volume attenuator knob was a little more rigid and firm in it's position. While turning them on the other day, I just barely touched the knob and it went from '0' to +5 without me even suspecting I had adjusted the volume. I was auditioning some piano patches and was wondering whether the patch was balanced weird or I had done something weird in Cubase. Since one is upside down, the power switches are in different places on each side. Over time this won't be a problem but for now I need to make sure I'm not accidentally touching the volume pot when powering up.

Otherwise, I'm super satisfied as of now. Will try the digital output over the next couple days and see what difference, if any, there is.

[BudgetMC]

Have done some tracking and mixing with the DSM3s over the past couple of evenings. The imaging is really impressing me. Still happy with the level of detail, too. I've had them play through my mp3 collection even when I haven't been around. The seem to have mellowed a tiny smidge, but not much.

[Heartfelt]

Did some more work today. I rearranged my monitor positions to make room for
two displays (wider) and aimed them as their directions suggest (right behind mix
position).

Listening:
I then did some more listening. They can truly crank and are not abrasive. It
really is an adjustment coming from the HS80's. The DSM's are a little KRK-ish on
top (a bit closed to me) but still retaining detail. That is such an odd statement
considering their range extends to 27K. Go figure. It may be the adjustment to
something more honest. It really seemed like I could hear everything and the
sweet spot seems wide to me.

Vocal editing:
I begun listening to a track of mine and editing the vocal. I have had problems
editing vocals on the Yams as the response fools my ears with pitch. I
personally have the same problem when moving from an SM58 to a Beta87. I
cannot sing in pitch on the beta unless my vox is screaming. They lack
strength in whatever frequency range I use with the SM58 to judge pitch.
(back to the monitors)

Again, I instantly identified low end buildup on the vocal track in comparison to
my reference. I also realized that I needed only a minute amount of top end
added. The result was being able to enjoy the sound when matched to the
reference, instead of having to simply accept it. Editing seemed to go much
better on the DSM's.

Ending Thought:
Again, I find them showing me things I didn't hear on the Yams. It is strange that
brightness doesn't always translate into detail. I find I can judge the girth and top
edge of the vocal very well on the DSM's. I wish they had more bottom although it
IS there and will be sufficient. I know small rooms have strange peaks and lulls.

[aman74]

Originally Posted by BudgetMC

I did not, btw, find the DSP3's too "nice" to listen too. I don't think I would choose them to put on tunes just for chillin' out. That's, IMHO, for speakers that have enough smear factor to "glue" everything together... these did a good job of keeping the various components discrete. In the old Stax stuff, for example, I could hear the various backup singers as individuals, while on my KRK R5g2's and "New Big Advents" they all merge into a single chorus. Now, I like background singers acting as a chorus when I'm listening for pleasure... but if I'm mixin I wanna hear everybody on their own.

I'd like to hear any further thought's you or other's have on this issue. Money is tight for me and in order for me to get these I'd need to sell my home speakers and have these do double duty. Would these really be that poor of a speaker for music enjoyment and home theater, or is it more of a preference issue?

Some further questions for anyone who can help:

-any issues with the hissing that the SOS review brought up?

-do these compete well in the price category they originally sold at and is there anything in the current price category of 5-600 that competes with these?

-would you go with the 2's or 3's, I believe the 2's have more bass?

Sorry for all the questions, but this would be a major purchase for me.

Thanks!

[lightfire]

Originally Posted by aman74

I'd like to hear any further thought's you or other's have on this issue. Money is tight for me and in order for me to get these I'd need to sell my home speakers and have these do double duty. Would these really be that poor of a speaker for music enjoyment and home theater, or is it more of a preference issue?

Some further questions for anyone who can help:

-any issues with the hissing that the SOS review brought up?

-do these compete well in the price category they originally sold at and is there anything in the current price category of 5-600 that competes with these?

-would you go with the 2's or 3's, I believe the 2's have more bass?

Sorry for all the questions, but this would be a major purchase for me.

Thanks!

DITTO
I have come close to hitting the button these but want to hear more feedback from users as well.
I would think that, if you use them for home listening, adding appropriate EQ would make them very nice. In fact for my own home theater I am using Tascam studio monitors. But don't know this about the DSM's as others have suggested differently?

[MadGuitrst]

Nobody can tell you exactly what to buy, of course.

I think there are some great reviews in this thread from BudgetMC and Heartfelt.

I like these monitors, especially for the price. There are better monitors to listen to for your stereo but that doesn't mean that you can't use these these; however, it's not their intended purpose (I don't think A7s make good home speakers either).

Good luck whatever you decide.

[BudgetMC]

Originally Posted by aman74

I'd like to hear any further thought's you or other's have on this issue. Money is tight for me and in order for me to get these I'd need to sell my home speakers and have these do double duty. Would these really be that poor of a speaker for music enjoyment and home theater, or is it more of a preference issue?

Some further questions for anyone who can help:

-any issues with the hissing that the SOS review brought up?

-do these compete well in the price category they originally sold at and is there anything in the current price category of 5-600 that competes with these?

-would you go with the 2's or 3's, I believe the 2's have more bass?

Sorry for all the questions, but this would be a major purchase for me.

Thanks!

As for listening to the DSMs for pleasure... it's not as if I find them unpleasant. I've been working to break them in, so I've been playing lots of stuff through them while puttering around the studio. I like listening to them this way, but for plain ol' listening I prefer the Tannoy Reveals or even more so my KRK Rokits. When I listen I want to 'turn off' my analytical brain and just experience the music (not an easy thing to do anymore). The DSMs, however, keep calling out to me "Psst... hey you... yeah YOU... listen to THIS!" And, "hey... did you notice THIS?" to my analytical brain. This may or may not be a problem for you.

Look deep inside yourself, Aman74. There lies the answer.

As for hissing... yes, there is a teeny tiny hiss. But, I'm runnning them via unballanced (RCA-XLR) connections because I'm using an old Event ESW-1 Speaker Switcher which only has RCA connections. I love being able to switch among 6 sets of speakers instantly, so I'm willing to deal with this minor artifact. I haven't gotten around to running them off a digital signal yet, so I can't say for sure what the source of the hiss is... but all my powered monitors have a wee hiss as currently set up.

Can't answer entirely about the competition in the price categories... I would trust the Mix and SOS reviews for that info, perhaps. I have to say that I think I got a totally rockin' deal that has put any number of silly grins on my face over the past several days.

As for DSM2s vs DSM3s. I, Heartfelt and MadGuitrst all went with the DSM3s. I can't speak for their motivations. My goal was to get a bigger sweet spot and have more clarity in the mids. As I said before, I fell like they deliver on both fronts. I do not find them light on bass... but I don't tend to work with super bass-heavy stuff, as I mainly work with Blues, Acoustic, and Americana folks. I also thought they looked cool and figured that if I was getting these on the mega cheap, then I might as well go for the top-o-da-line model.

[aman74]

Thanks for your further thoughts. I know what you mean that nobody can tell you what to buy and there are many factors to consider. I'm just trying to get a really good feel for what I'd be getting for my dollar here.

I just wasn't hearing anyone say they are leagues above something like the Yamaha HS80 which plays in the same current price category and these were once double that, so cause for hesitation there. I'm not very experienced with studio monitors so maybe after the price level of something decent like the Yammys the differences become more subtle. In the HT speaker world you'd still be expecting much more than just some minor differences at these price points. Once you get a bit higher in price it starts to really slow down, like most things.

Anyone here use a sub? I ask because I was having another brain storm. I do have a modest HT sub I could use in addition. I was wondering if I went with the 1's how this might work out. I realize I wouldn't get the wider sweet spot of the 3's, but I would think other than that the big difference in the three speakers is the bass. I'm just wondering if trying to manage a sub is too much to bite off for a not to so experienced user. I've heard a lot of people say to stay away from them, but that seems to have shifted a bit recently. Anytime something is new you get the old school saying it's garbage, etc... but I think maybe people are warming up to using subs.

[Heartfelt]

I actually have the DSM-2s

[BudgetMC]

Originally Posted by Heartfelt

I actually have the DSM-2s

So... do your DSM2s have more bass than my DSM3s?

[Heartfelt]

Originally Posted by BudgetMC

So... do your DSM2s have more bass than my DSM3s?

Doubt it.

[aman74]

Originally Posted by BudgetMC

So... do your DSM2s have more bass than my DSM3s?

I thought they did. I couldn't find the specs readily, but someone had said that was the case...I believe in the kvr thread.

[aman74]

Originally Posted by Heartfelt

I actually have the DSM-2s

Was it the cost savings or do you prefer that design?

[Heartfelt]

$100 and I didn't see the need for dual drivers in my room.

[BudgetMC]

According to the specs, the DSM3's have a bit more bass extension (37Hz) than the DSM2's (42hz).

[foamboy]

Hi everybody. WOW, I had forgotten about this thread! Thanks to all who put forth their hard earned cash and time to actually comment on these spkrs.

Unfortunately, I was dealt a few financial curve balls,so I won't be able to take advantage of the deal right now. I only hope that these are still available in about 2 mos because I KNOW that these will be a step up from my Rokit5 G2's!

Thanks again,

fb

[Johnny Plant]

I've been following this thread but I'm still undecided.

I do have some questions with regard to low end. You say that the specs state that the dsm3 goes down to 37hz but the online pdf manual says 45 hz. Have you done any "informal tests" to verify this?

Most studio MTM arrays are using only one midwoofer for the mids, while they work together from, say, 150hz or whatever til the lowest frequencies. I guess this helps in preventing phase problems that may arise from having two midwoofers playing the same frequencies all the way up to the tweeter crossover point (which from what I've read is the way the DSM3 works).

Have you noticed any such phase problems from having 2 midwoofers per side playing the same frequencies up to such high frequencies?

Heartfelt, bass comparison dsm2 vs hs80m?

I don't remember if one of you said you had a pair of krk rp8s, if so, could you do a thorough comparison between the two? (I have a pair so it would give me an idea) I also have a pair of event asp8, don't know if anyone familiar with them has worked with the dsms, but that comparison would also be interesting.

[BudgetMC]

Originally Posted by Johnny Plant

I've been following this thread but I'm still undecided.

I do have some questions with regard to low end. You say that the specs state that the dsm3 goes down to 37hz but the online pdf manual says 45 hz. Have you done any "informal tests" to verify this?


Have you noticed any such phase problems from having 2 midwoofers per side playing the same frequencies up to such high frequencies?

.

Good questions! You are right that the on-line manual says 45hz -- something which I hadn't noticed. The website, on the other hand, says 37hz. I'll take a peek at the documentation that came with the speakers themselves. As for "informal tests"... no, I've only been listening and enjoying.

As for phase problems, I have noticed none... and since my head does its level best to turn inside out when there is any real sort of phase trouble, I probably would have noticed. As I said before, the sweet spot is pretty wide. M-A claims that keeping the midwoofers closer together minimizes this effect. It seems true enough to me.

[Heartfelt]

Originally Posted by Johnny Plant

I've been following this thread but I'm still undecided. I do have some questions with regard to low end.

Heartfelt, bass comparison dsm2 vs hs80m?

Well, I think they are about the same, perhaps a teeny tad less on the DSM.
While some people think the HS80's are bass shy, I have always found them to
be solid but not overbearing. I know there is a slight scoop in the low mids on
the HS80s's and a peak in the uppermids (what I hear). That peak gives them
mid forward flavor. I had grown accustomed to it.

With all that said, the DSM-2's are cleaner on the bottom and seem to be
pretty even all the way up with no peaks on top. This is what I hear in "my
room", treated with 6 GIK traps and a bit of Auralex.

If you are looking for bass pumping speakers, look elsewhere. If you want an even sound, this is it... and they CRANK, IMHO.

[jhamrick714]

I too have been on the fence regarding pulling the trigger on a pair of DSM3's, the AudioMidi price is so sick and tempting...

I want to share an "opinion" from Engineer/Producer Joe Barresi - An opinion I respect. My intention is only to provide information.

Here is a Q & A with Joe regarding the DSM2. Source is Techbreakfast.com.

Dear Joe, I'm very interested in your choice of the DSM2s. What made you choose those speakers? Which musical content do you find yourself using them on? Just for specifics or general mixing? What where other contestants against those? Thanks a lot Jonathan
May. 14, 2011
hi jonathan
the dsm2's are part of my array of stuff i normally use--yamaha ns10's. krk v6's, blue sky's, nht's, etc. what i look for in a speaker is the quality of the mids---the dsm2's allow me to get a decent control room volume when doing overdubs (like gtr and bass) and not be fooled by the mids. i can eq on them and not hate the result when i switch back to the smaller sets---unlike Genelecs and Dyneaudios from the past. i dont use them for mixing--just tracking.

jb

[Heartfelt]

Originally Posted by jhamrick714

I too have been on the fence regarding pulling the trigger on a pair of DSM3's, the AudioMidi price is so sick and tempting...

I want to share an "opinion" from Engineer/Producer Joe Barresi - An opinion I respect. My intention is only to provide information.

Here is a Q & A with Joe regarding the DSM2. Source is Techbreakfast.com.

With your being on the fence, you failed to mention what Joe's opinion did to help you in your decision. Just curious. No monitor is for everybody and you can see that in his dislike for genelecs and dynaudio.

[jhamrick714]

Regarding Joe's Answer, it's the fact that he uses them for tracking not mixing which has me on the fence. My requirement is tracking and mixing. I don't know what Joe uses for mixing but I wouldn't be suprised if those monitors were out of my price range.
Another fence factor would be... why is audiomidi dumping the price ~70% of list? Are they just not popular because of the "M-Audio" name resulting in not being able to move the product? With any monitor I would like to work with it in my room before making a desision... which I can't do in this case without a 15% re-stocking fee, which is do-able...

[Heartfelt]

I completely understand and had to go through all of that mentally for myself. Not trying to persuade you but the conversation is fun and interesting. Best of luck to you.

[musikmaschine]

Originally Posted by jhamrick714

Regarding Joe's Answer, it's the fact that he uses them for tracking not mixing which has me on the fence. My requirement is tracking and mixing. I don't know what Joe uses for mixing but I wouldn't be suprised if those monitors were out of my price range.
Another fence factor would be... why is audiomidi dumping the price ~70% of list? Are they just not popular because of the "M-Audio" name resulting in not being able to move the product? With any monitor I would like to work with it in my room before making a desision... which I can't do in this case without a 15% re-stocking fee, which is do-able...

I believe they are being discontinued. The CX5s were a few months back and the price dropped to $200 on closeout. I was told this by a retailer in the UK and then the price on the DSM1s rose to £1,000 so don't quote me on that!

[Heartfelt]

BudgetMC, any buyer's remorse?

[BudgetMC]

Originally Posted by Heartfelt

BudgetMC, any buyer's remorse?

Not even a wee little bit.