Why can't we Do this with what we have?

[Yenrah]

Maybe he doesn't understand what you are saying. Maybe someone has him convinced that mixing it on the console will yield better results. Wouldn't be the first time.

[duff mcshark]

This is just another example of the client not knowing that he doesn't know better than the engineer. Just tell him that it will turn out better on your DAW and that you don't need a console; if he persists, tell him that you don't have the I/O's or outboard gear to make it work and that in this case it will sound better ITB. If he won't drop it, pretend to hook it up to the console, move faders around, and act like you're using it.

[lobsterinn]

There is no reason you can't mix it ITB. Unless this is some incredible console which happens to be in a well-designed studio with great conversion and great outboard gear, then it seems like a no-brainer to mix it where you are comfortable and have gotten good results in the past.

Selling that to a client who is infatuated with a piece of equipment might be tough, however. People make these decisions based on all sorts of concerns. Maybe someone donated that console and it is a political issue. Maybe one of his favorite records was mixed on the same console. Maybe he spent his life savings on it... Regardless, client communication is a really important part of the job. You have to feel the situation out and do what you need to do to make things happen.

[aclarson]

I've heard consoles sound heavenly.

[jtkohler3]

Thanks for the responses. These are all things to consider.

[dkelley]

most importantly, if he wants your help, he should respect that you know more than he does. annoying when people "hire" you and don't give you credit for knowledge.

describe out OTB requires plenty of additional a/d and d/a stages each of which can contribute to poor sound quality (although I think it actually isn't really audible unless you have a crap interface... the theory is valid though so it's a good argument for ITB)

[12ax7]

.

Lots of considerations here for both you and your client.

Concerning YOUR side of things, a few questions:

Have you called the studio in question to ask about what they have (or to get a feel about how you will be treated/handled)?

Do you feel uncomfortable using a real console & outboard stuff?

Have you ever even mixed that way?

...And if NOT, would you not like to try? (Or maybe you would like to try, but not on this project?)

And yes, as lobsterinn pointed out:

Originally Posted by lobsterinn

People make these decisions based on all sorts of concerns. Maybe someone donated that console and it is a political issue. Maybe one of his favorite records was mixed on the same console. Maybe he spent his life savings on it... Regardless, client communication is a really important part of the job. You have to feel the situation out and do what you need to do to make things happen.

The reason I asked MY questions is that if you want to become a more well-rounded engineer, you may owe it to yourself to adapt to more situations than just ONE studio (or one way of doing things).

Who was it who said "There are no problems; only opportunities!"?

.

[Schwarzwald]

Do what your client wants. At the end of the day, it's not your recording, its their recording. I tend to not argue for long with a client that I feel is stubborn. A simple "no, I think this will work better" is all they get, and if they persist, then fine. $$ is $$.

[oldeanalogueguy]

You certainly can.
If it ends up as mp3 it will be so bad you can mix it anywhere.
BUT ITB can certainly do high quality broadcast wav too.

Pastors don't tend to be too smart wrt the audio side of things and may just be echoing something they think they heard or someone may have said (who doesnt know much more).

[12ax7]

Originally Posted by Schwarzwald

Do what your client wants. At the end of the day, it's not your recording, its their recording. I tend to not argue for long with a client that I feel is stubborn. A simple "no, I think this will work better" is all they get, and if they persist, then fine. $$ is $$.

I've heard this called "The New York No".

...The idea being that you (almost) NEVER actually say "No" to an offer. (You just bid the price up to where the CLIENT says "No"!)

That way, THEY are the one who bails on the gig.

...Personally, sometimes I think its better to say "No." yourself. (But then again, I'm not from New York.)

(...Still, don't take what I just said to be advice of any sort.)

.

[mcgruff]

Tell him God told you to do it ITB.

[TheDrumJunkie]

Originally Posted by Schwarzwald

At the end of the day, it's not your recording, its their recording.

Depends whose hard drive it ends up on.

EDIT: the hard drive the audio is recorded onto, not copied/transferred.

[12ax7]

Originally Posted by mcgruff

Tell him God told you to do it ITB.

CAREFUL!!!

Don't be surprised if he comes back at you with a citation of Exodus 36:26!

...In which case, he'll INSIST that you load in yet ANOTHER console (and use nothing but silver-plated connectors)!

.

[Stuart Coleco]

Why can't you mix it ITB. Get the sounds you are happy with. Mix to groups then mix those groups on the console? Win Win

[Geissler]

Originally Posted by oldeanalogueguy

You certainly can.
If it ends up as mp3 it will be so bad you can mix it anywhere.

[Chrisc_o]

Originally Posted by jtkohler3

...Why can't we mix the album in the box? Its just going to end up as an MP3.

Please share your thoughts

Originally Posted by oldeanalogueguy

You certainly can.
If it ends up as mp3 it will be so bad you can mix it anywhere.

Originally Posted by Geissler

I agree with Geissler.

I see this kind of comment all the time and it is depressing. Playback medium or format has no bearing on the task of recording, producing, mixing or mastering. Aim high, period.

Pro mixes sound awesome no matter how you're listening to it. You could have the raw tape, a 44.1k 24 bit wave or a 96kbps MP3 and it will still sound pro.

Don't make excuses for not trying your best to make a completely kick-ass recording. If you're thinking "MP3 mix" then you're not concentrating on the music. MP3s have nothing to do with anything. Producing the best mix possible is all that matters.



Anyway, ITB can sound perfectly fine. Consoles and plugins are tools; the end result is the in the hands of a skilled craftsman, not in the tools he uses.

Make sure that everyone involved knows who's in control of the session. If you're the boss then he should respect your decision. If he's the boss then respect his.

[Voyage.One]

If he's adamant on having it mixed on a large format console, book a week at a studio that has an SSL or something. Hell, even try and find a 32/8 on fleaBay.

[SochiTag]

Originally Posted by jtkohler3

My question is Why can't we mix the album in the box?

Well that's simple - You can't mix this album in the box because the client has chosen not to do so.

You can advise, but at the end of the day, the person who pays will decide what happens. Regardless if it's the best option or not.

[PhilDW]

It sounds like your job is to do the recording, right? Unless you have an emotional or financial need to do the mixing too, can't you just say that you don't mix that way and say he'll need to get another mix engineer?

[jtkohler3]

I am hired to be both mix and recording engineer

[uncle duncan]

Have you explained to the client the concept of mix recalls? This could sway him towards your preferred solution. If he doesn't go for that, just take the job and do it his way. After all, all a mixing console is is a bunch of plugins in hardware format - with real knobs and faders instead of a GUI.

[12ax7]

.

This may actually be much more simple that one might think.

There are really only two questions:

1) Is there ALREADY an agreement? (And if so, to WHAT has each party agreed?)

...or...

2) If there is NOT already an agreement, well then to what are you (and the other party) willing to agree?

.

...So if you have already made an agreement, well then bloody well live up to it.

But if not, then either gracefully bail on the project, or just compromise (and do it the way the guy wants).

It really IS that simple!

.

[guitarmax_99]

A few questions?

1. Why is your client so married to the idea of mixing it on a console?

2. What is the monitoring situation where the console is? Would you have to bring in your own monitors? If the monitoring situation isn't optimal, then no matter how good a console it is, the mix could end up sucking.

3. Do you have access to enough outboard gear to make a mix work on the console? If you don't, explain that you'll need to rent some additional gear in order to do the mix. Is he willing to spend the money?

Good luck.

[Yeah, right...]

Originally Posted by mcgruff

Tell him God told you to do it ITB.

LOL