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cad m179 using both sides of mic for drums??
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frettiyeti
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#1
26th June 2011
Old 26th June 2011
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cad m179 using both sides of mic for drums??

i picked up a 3 pack of the cad m179s and dont get access to a drumset often.. basically only time i get to mic drums is when a band is standing around waiting for me (not good i know but its the way it is) anyhow the idea i was toying with was using----------

using the figure 8 setting close to the toms with the idea the backside will also pick up cymbals ... also i mic with a 58 on the top of the snare and would like to use a 179 set in figure 8 to record bottom of the snare and front of the kick

cad e100 is in the normal kick position... overheads are akg c1000s or sometimes a pair of audio tech mics which im not sure of the model

anyone tried this... will it cause phasing problems.. i have no idea if the dual diaphams are wired (dipole or bipole) for lack of better term...

basically being poor and what not just looking for a cheap (good hopefully) way to get cymbals recorded.... and thought might help with the kick also to brighten it up (and yes i wont do it if i hear chain or any mechanical noise).

thanks
another question... if the fig 8 is a bad idea which setting would you use on drums.. ive only used them one time for like 20 min and have a demo to record and not much time to mess around with them

later
#2
26th June 2011
Old 26th June 2011
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biggator6 is offline
Give us a full list of mics you have available. What you are proposing sounds strange.
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#3
26th June 2011
Old 26th June 2011
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I've used a 179 in figure 8 as part of an MS pair on overheads and it worked great. If you're going to use them while close miking, use one of the cardioid patterns, keeping in mind that hyper cardioid will have the most rejection of outside sounds. By all means experiment, but keep in mind that what you're proposing will only be getting you less than ideal sounds from two drums. Another thing is that tom mics are usually completely muted during mixing except when they're being used, which cleans up the mix a lot. If you're using them to pick up cymbals as well then you won't be able to do that.
#4
1st July 2011
Old 1st July 2011
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daffy is offline
I wouldn't use the figure 8's like that myself:
- two things you really want to be able to separate are the kick and snare. I spend my life trying to keep snare out of the beater mic!! You would end up having to do funky things with gates or compressors to remove the snare from the kick and vice versa.
- likewise, you really want to try and keep the cymbals out of your tom mics. Usually there's way too much cymbal in all the mics and you want clean toms to get over the top of them.

With the mics you have, a set up that you could try would be to have the M179 in figure 8 between the two toms, so that you have one tom on either side of the mic, and the null point is pointing at the cymbals to get maximum cymbal rejection. You can then play with phase to get one tom or the other to pop out.

I have also used the M179's as overheads in figure 8, with the front pointing at the kit and the back of the mic picking up the room. Worked quite well.

I personally have never used spot mics on drums or snare - I find I get plenty in the overheads.
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1st July 2011
Old 1st July 2011
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Why not? The bleed might actually sound cool. Of course if you're looking for super separate sounds this might not work well come mix time, so if you want bleed all over the place maybe just do a 2-4 mic setup and use them as Figure 8 in overhead.
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1st July 2011
Old 1st July 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremy.c. View Post
Why not? The bleed might actually sound cool. Of course if you're looking for super separate sounds this might not work well come mix time, so if you want bleed all over the place maybe just do a 2-4 mic setup and use them as Figure 8 in overhead.
You're right, of course. It all comes down to personal preference and what sounds good on the day. I just wonder about bleed versus actually trying to record both things at the same time - with the toms at least they are often either played separately or they are mixed and used together.

Some bleed can work wonders in a drum mix, but you may find it's awesome on one track and sounds like arse on another.

The 'standard' approach I've seen is to set them to hyper-cardioid and have one per tom and they sound AMAZING, but if you're looking to use less mics on a kit then have a play with the figure 8 and see what works for you.
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1st July 2011
Old 1st July 2011
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#8
1st July 2011
Old 1st July 2011
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Quote:
hyper cardioid will have the most rejection of outside sounds
A hypercardioid will have a small lobe at the rear.
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1st July 2011
Old 1st July 2011
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M179

This mic is not just your normal multipattrn. You can dial the wheel for pattern blending, as well as the hypercardioid as mentioned above. I close mic all my toms with them and there's minimal cymbal bleed.

Cheers!
Mitchell
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1st July 2011
Old 1st July 2011
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I've done the figure-8 on bottom snare and kick many times (usually when I'm doing a minimalist micing set-up and only want to add one mic but need a little more strainer and batter head click). The positioning is key to avoid phase issues, but I've gotten good results using the technique.
BTW an M-179 placed out in front of the kick sounds really good too.
#11
1st July 2011
Old 1st July 2011
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The C1000S is my least favorite drum overhead mic. I replaced mine with Oktava MK-012s years ago and never looked back. The C1000S sounded thin, distant, and veiled compared to the MK012.

But the M179 is a great mic. I think the 3-pack is maybe the best deal on condenser mics in the industry right now.

Use the M179s for overheads. Put the third one on kick or snare (and the E100 on kick or snare, wherever the third M179 isn't). Both the old E100v2 and M179 have a pad, which you'll need on snare.

By the way you can compare various drum overhead mic positions -- XY, AB, MS, ORTF, Recorderman -- here:
Comparing overhead drum miking techniques | recording hacks

In a nutshell, if your room sounds bad, go with Recorderman for a drier sound (less room sound). If the room sounds good, you have more options; pick a pattern that meets your needs for ease of placement and amount of room sound.
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