Voice recording

[johny17]

Hi everybody,
I'd like to ask, if there is anybody, who has some experiences with recording voice (concretely speech) for such a purposes as radio broadbanding, podcasts etc...
I and my friends want to record a podcast, and i want it to sound as much professional as possible. In other words...how do they do it in proffesional radios, the voice sounds so good? I guess I have to have a good condeser mic, a good preamp, popfilter and off courese a good AD...
But my budget is limited, so I've been thinking about buying a Oktava MK-220 (http://www.oktava-online.com/mk220.htm), some popfilter and M-Audio DMP-3. I already have a Delta 1010lt.
What U think?
And what about the processing when I have it in computer. Compression, eq..?
Thanks for help...

[island-dave]

It sounds like you're on the right track. I like using a LDC and a 2 or 3 layer pop filter (even on very experienced vocalists). once i get things set up and sounding good, I keep records of the distance from the pop to the mic and the person's mouth or nose to the pop, this way i have to go back and do a re-take, everything sounds the same.

As for plug-ins, I try to keep things very simple. I usually just add some pultec EQ and start with the presets for male or female voice-over and then tweak things a little to suit their particular voice. Depending on the person, I may add a touch of RVox compression, but unless you're doing a "wacky, morning zoo" you may not need very much.

Also, while I'm recording I mark down all my settings, knob positions on the preamp, and settings on the plug-ins, etc. just to be safe.

good luck,

Dave-G

[johny17]

Originally Posted by island-dave

It sounds like you're on the right track. I like using a LDC and a 2 or 3 layer pop filter (even on very experienced vocalists). once i get things set up and sounding good, I keep records of the distance from the pop to the mic and the person's mouth or nose to the pop, this way i have to go back and do a re-take, everything sounds the same.

As for plug-ins, I try to keep things very simple. I usually just add some pultec EQ and start with the presets for male or female voice-over and then tweak things a little to suit their particular voice. Depending on the person, I may add a touch of RVox compression, but unless you're doing a "wacky, morning zoo" you may not need very much.

Also, while I'm recording I mark down all my settings, knob positions on the preamp, and settings on the plug-ins, etc. just to be safe.

good luck,

Dave-G

hi, thanks for that hints...
what you mean by LDC? LDC-77?
And hthe second thing, what pultec eq? I've been searching the google and didn't find any vst like that (only some hardware eqs). Did you mean URS fulltec?

[Glenn Kuras]

Please don't take this as I am trying to sell you our acoustics, but I have found that the room sound has the biggest effect on spoken recorded voice.. Not to say the other stuff does not matter, but dollar for dollar acoustics is the number one thing that is going to get a pro sound for you.. When you listen to the radio you can tell when the DJ is on loction, why is this? THE ROOM!

Glenn

[Eric Dahlberg]

Originally Posted by johny17

In other words...how do they do it in proffesional radios, the voice sounds so good? I guess I have to have a good condeser mic, a good preamp, popfilter and off courese a good AD...

Don't necessarily think condensers are the standard. Broadcast dynamics like the Shure SM-7b or EV RE-20 are likely even more common, they're smoother sounding, they're less dynamic (a bad thing for recording but a good thing for radio), & you can get right up on them to help eliminate room issues that Glenn mentioned. Even if you do decide to go with a condenser mic, you won't need a multi-pattern one like the link you posted.

[danno812]

Your choice of Microphones is the first most important gear choice.

The EV RE20 is arguably the most common dynamic mic in radio broadcast,
The Neumann TLM103 is arguably the most common in VO work.

A decent clean and uncolored preamp is preferable but if you want to have some control of EQ and Dynamics as well then I suggest a Symetrix 528e, Presonus VXP or Focusrite Platinum. These are all common in VO work.

[petsematary]

I agree that the room is the single most important factor. A normal bedroom or whatever will equal crappy sound NO MATTER WHAT type of equipment you use. Period. Get a space with good acoustics. You can hear the difference right away when you enter a room that has good acoustics.

Second, why use a condensor mic? I use dynamics and to my experience, this is the most common choice in broadcasting. Not that sensitive, sound great...a no-brainer. The Heil mics are supposed to be great. The Shure SM7 and the EV RE20 are also classics. A large dynamic would be my choice.
Note: The EV RE20 is only common in the US, I've never seen one over here. At least not in a radio studio/voice over booth. They're crazy expensive over here. All EV gear is.

Couple that mic with a good-quality preamp and also use a compressor. This is what makes radio sound radio. Pretty heavy compression and a dynamic mic (and pre). And record in a "dead" space. It's pretty basic stuff.

I do a podcast on an on-and-off basis (when I've got the time) and I use a large dynamic mic run into a pretty standard single-channel preamp and I add some compression with a "really nice" compressor. I also cut using a high-pass and a low-pass filter, eliminating everything below 100Hz and everything above 15.000.
And I've got a hut I've built out of mattresses, blankets and pillows. It's crazy hot in there but it works.

[Glenn Kuras]

"I agree that the room is the single most important factor. A normal bedroom or whatever will equal crappy sound NO MATTER WHAT type of equipment you use. Period. Get a space with good acoustics. You can hear the difference right away when you enter a room that has good acoustics."

You are so right about this.. It is very frustrating to see people say that this mic or that mic is going to change there world or this or that preamp is the way to make you pro.. I bet I could talk into a sm57 or a " " (insert any dynamic mic here) and you would be hard pressed to tell me which mic is which.. Run the same test between a non treated room and treated room and my 16 year old daughter could tell you which room is which.. Don't get me wrong, I love gear, just ask my girlfriend (she is yelling at me all the time to stop buying so much ) but the room is the biggest reason for pro sound..

Glenn

[SparkyCanada]

what you mean by LDC?

Large Diaphragm Condensor


SparkyCanada

[island-dave]

thanks for adding the LDC for me sparky, I didn't see that question above. I agree with the room comment. I'm currently recording a woman who's speaking the dialog for the audiobook version of her autobiography. She really wanted to record it in her home. As you can probably guess, most houses in the caribbean are concrete (or they wouldn't last long!) with very high ceilings, so it was really challenging to tame all those reflections.

We ended up taking a quad fold privacy screen (it's basically four panels with hinges connecting them) and hanging blankets on it and making a little cage for her to sit in with the mic boom and music stand. It seems to work pretty well and the sound is better than I thought we could get in that room.

As for mics, I do like using a large diaphram condenser, I know a lot of people who do broadcast like the dynamic mics. I guess the best advice is to try a few mics with your voice and find the one you like best. there are so many low cost mics out there that will sound great, so shop around and get a good one. I do like the SM7, but not for my own voice, I love what it does for a female radio dj friend of mine though.

The pultec I was talking about was a RTAS (plug in type for Pro Tools) made by bomb factory. they are reproductions of some classic EQ's.
Pultec EQ Bundle

good luck and I hope this helps!

Dave-G

[RadioMoo]

Originally Posted by danno812

Your choice of Microphones is the first most important gear choice.

The EV RE20 is arguably the most common dynamic mic in radio broadcast

It's a shit mic that's way over priced and has no high end; the RE27 has some high end but no body. They're very common in on-air studios because they're built like tanks, not because they sound good. If you're going for a dynamic mic, the lowest quality you should accept is the Shure SM7; another decent one is the Sennheiser 421. Look also at beyerdynamic. For a condensor, try something from audio-technica's 30 or 40 series, or if you have the bucks, try an AKG C414 or a Neumann U87.

The Neumann TLM103 is arguably the most common in VO work.

They're OK, but I see more U87s, and recently, more audio-technica.

A decent clean and uncolored preamp is preferable but if you want to have some control of EQ and Dynamics as well then I suggest a Symetrix 528e, Presonus VXP or Focusrite Platinum. These are all common in VO work.

Avoid the Symetrix 528; it's just more air studio junk, with an attack time that's way too fast to give your voice any real impact. And actually, the Focusrite mentioned here would be your low-end choice - but not a bad choice. If you just need a compressor, look into the RNC (Real Nice Compressor).

And, as a few people have mentioned, room acoustics are very important: your recording space doesn't have to be dead as a doornail, but you need to keep out any kind of echo/reverb (like your "S"'s bouncing off the wall and getting into the mic a few milliseconds later - can sound like crickets or like glass breaking), and any kind of low-end energy that could get into the mic on a slight delay and really muddy up your work.

[danno812]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by RadioMoo

Its the Low end that most people in broadcast like about this mic. Common for kick drums for the same reason.


[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by RadioMoo

another decent one is the Sennheiser 421

Very true and another excellent choice

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by RadioMoo

They're OK, but I see more U87s

The TLM 103 is essentially a single diaphragm version with quieter circuitry. Not as versatile but LESS EXPENSIVE.

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by RadioMoo

the Focusrite mentioned here would be your low-end choice - but not a bad choice

I agree and actually the Presonus VXP is my personal favorite of the three, however presonus discontinued makng them.

Room acoustics is critical, but you mentioned gear, so I'm just giving you a list of whats common as well as affordable.

[Geert van den Berg]

Originally Posted by danno812

The TLM 103 is essentially a single diaphragm version with quieter circuitry. Not as versatile but LESS EXPENSIVE.

That might be true, but the frequency response of the u87 is much more pleasant to the ears IMHO.

Nonetheless the TLM103 is not a bad mic, but it has a big proximity effect when you come close and it has a lot of top end.

Another mic which compares nice to the TLM103, or even sounds slightly better is the Microtech Geffel 930. Its toplift starts slightly higher (around 7kHz) than the TLM, making it a bit more pleasant to the ears.

[nathanvacha]

I could be wrong, (I don't do broadcast, honestly) but i thought the whole reasoning for using a mic like an sm7 (aside from durability, of course) is the proximity effect of the mic's... When you record a singer w/ an ldc, you don't have them eat the mic, but i have seen many radio announcers right up in it.

The low output of an sm7 would be advantageous in that regard: Less pickup of surrounding sound or reflections and more direct signal... Of course, every picture or video i've seen of that type of situation also has wall to wall pyramid foam and is dryer than a... something that's really dry.

[petsematary]

The SM7 doesn't really have that big a proximity effect. And RE20 has none whatsoever - at least to my ears. So they can "eat" the mic and get a full sound without the big bass increase that you'd get using an LDC.

The MD441 is also a cool choice (although crazy expensive) since it's a dynamic, sounds good but is also a hypercardio thus rejecting even more background sounds.

[Eric Dahlberg]

Originally Posted by petsematary

The SM7 doesn't really have that big a proximity effect. And RE20 has none whatsoever - at least to my ears. So they can "eat" the mic and get a full sound without the big bass increase that you'd get using an LDC.

Exactly. This helps to eliminate room sound, as well.

[ozraves]

For low end I'm not a fan of the RE20 or the SM7 as they need some nice mic preamps to get juiced up properly. I've got one fairly nice mic pre here that cost $1,600 that won't power up an RE20 worth a crap for dialog.

If I were going extreme low end, then I'd get an Audio-Technica ATM25 and an M-Audio Mobile Pre USB, which actually sounds quite decent with dynamic mics. I've got a review of the Mobile Pre here... http://www.mojopie.com/mobilepre.html

My gold channel would be the sE R-1 ribbon mic and the Great River MP-2NV. The R-1 arguably might be the best VO mic.

I look at every piece of gear I encounter with a mind to dialog work as the gentleman I work with does a fair amount of dialog work in his studio.

[ozraves]

Originally Posted by myfipie

Please don't take this as I am trying to sell you our acoustics, but I have found that the room sound has the biggest effect on spoken recorded voice.. Not to say the other stuff does not matter, but dollar for dollar acoustics is the number one thing that is going to get a pro sound for you.. When you listen to the radio you can tell when the DJ is on loction, why is this? THE ROOM!

Glenn

An isolation booth can be a good thing for VO especially when using a hot condenser mic such as a Blue Baby Bottle. When using a dynamic I've not found the room to get in the way at all.

[johny17]

hm, it's hard to decide. so much mics and so little money .
the second thing, that i didn't mention, is that i'would like to use that microphone for recording some singing and guitar from time to time.
that's why i will probably decide for LDC (now i know what it means ).

[johny17]

btw, very interesting article: http://mixonline.com/mag/audio_recording_voiceover/

[petsematary]

You can get great results for singer songwriter-type stuff with dynamic mics as well. The MD441 is a super mic for acoustic guitar - at least my acoustic. I'm waiting to try the Heil mics as well as I've heard they are supposed to be awesome as well but they're not available here yet.

[Glenn Kuras]

Originally Posted by ozraves

An isolation booth can be a good thing for VO especially when using a hot condenser mic such as a Blue Baby Bottle. When using a dynamic I've not found the room to get in the way at all.

I do agree that a dynamic does take some of the room out, but I can still hear it..
If I get some time I should do a recording of spoken voc with both kinds of mics in a treated and untreated room.. We could talk about this all day long, but hearing is believing..


Glenn

[island-dave]

While this thread is still hopping,

Has anyone tried the new Neumann BCM705 for voiceover work? I'm looking for a dynamic that I don't have to position right up on the talent. Since we do a lot of long, lengthy recordings, I'm looking for a mic that i can position about 12" away (out of their line of sight so they can read the script easily) and still have a nice output.

I'd like to hear what others say about this mic, or if you have some audio samples you'd care to share.

Thanks in advance!

Dave-G

[petsematary]

That Neumann looks crazy expensive. 849 list! The supposedly kick-ass PR-40 is 269 list - will the Neumann beat it...and be three times better?

[island-dave]

Originally Posted by petsematary

That Neumann looks crazy expensive. 849 list! The supposedly kick-ass PR-40 is 269 list - will the Neumann beat it...and be three times better?

Hopefully someone here will have the answer for us as I haven't heard either of these mics yet, and there's no way I can hear them down here at all. My local dealer has the SM57 and SM 58 in stock and that's about it. period. he asked me why I'd need any other mic besides those 2!

[I_W_O]

Originally Posted by island-dave

While this thread is still hopping,

Has anyone tried the new Neumann BCM705 for voiceover work? I'm looking for a dynamic that I don't have to position right up on the talent. Since we do a lot of long, lengthy recordings, I'm looking for a mic that i can position about 12" away (out of their line of sight so they can read the script easily) and still have a nice output.

I'd like to hear what others say about this mic, or if you have some audio samples you'd care to share.

Thanks in advance!

Dave-G

I've bought BCM705 recently and love it on voiceovers, but ONLY if used really close ! Then you get lovely proximity effect low frequency boost - and radio ready vocal (especially on male vocals). From the distance I wouldn't reccomend it (might lack lows) and it's not very sensitive mic.

[minus-sounds.com]

If you can try the ML52 ribbon. It has a HUUUGE and warm sound. I have the 319 too and I like them both very much.