Behringer UB1002 Mixer

[ootini]

Hello, I picked up a cheapo Behringer UB1002 mini mixer on ebay a while back, I want to use it as a sub mixer for my keyboards so I can set the balance between the keys live and hand the engineer a single stereo pair for the FOH mix.
All well and good in theory except when I plug my Roland XP80 and Kurzweil K2000 into this little bugger, by the time I've cranked each individual fader, the master fader and gain pots up to a suitable level (which is pretty loud to be fair) all I can hear is hiss and noise. The second I bring the channel faders down, it's gone.
I was wondering is it just because it's a cheap shit mixer or could it be incorrect cables being used? or is there a trick like keep the gain low / faders high?

Thanks.

Edit _ Should the cables I'm using be "balanced" or "unbalanced" ? I'm just using run of the mill cheapo 1/4" jack to jacks from Maplin.

[RonT]

Originally Posted by ootini

I was wondering is it just because it's a cheap shit mixer or could it be incorrect cables being used? or is there a trick like keep the gain low / faders high?

Wonder no more! Welcome to the world of the..Da Dun Dumm.... "B"Word

Best solution is turn the gain all the way down on the mixer. Turn your monitoring solution up and then crank the volume of your external gear (keyboard) until the mixer distorts. Then back off a couple of db. I have my Motif at 1/2 output beucase it will distort my convertor or mixer if I turn the volume up to high.

Now you can add the rest of the gain needed with the mixer if any at all is need and use the fader for volume control. This is all about proper gain staging for a proper ratio of signal to noise.

Originally Posted by ootini

Edit _ Should the cables I'm using be "balanced" or "unbalanced" ? I'm just using run of the mill cheapo 1/4" jack to jacks from Maplin.

Balanced cables want do you any good if the instrument or device dosen't have balanced outputs. In a situation where they do, cheap cables do not matter as much becuase balance circuits tend to eliminate the noise problem.

Cheap, terribly sheilded unbalance cables can give you all kinds of heartache! It really is all about the sheilding and the conducting material of the cable. Some cheap cables are cheap becuase they are cheap and built like crap.

Some cables are actually good but are just cheaper than the equally good competitor. Redco is an example of this situation.


Conclusion, buy a better mixer. Get some decent cables and learn proper gain staging.

[ootini]

Originally Posted by RonT

Wonder no more! Welcome to the world of the..Da Dun Dumm.... "B"Word

Best solution is turn the gain all the way down on the mixer. Turn your monitoring solution up and then crank the volume of your external until the mixer distorts. Then back off a couple of db.

Now you can add the rest of the gain need with the mixer. All about proper gain staging for a proper ratio of signal to noise.




Balanced cables want do you any good if the instrument or device dosnt have balanced outpouts. In a situation where they do, cheap cables do not matter as much becuase balance circuits tend to eliminate the noise problem.

Cheap, terribly sheilded 1/4" cables can give you all kinds of heartache! It really is all about the sheilding and the conducting material of the cable. Some cheap cables are cheap becuase they are cheap and built like crap.

Some cables are actually good but are just cheaper than the equally good competitor. Redco is an example of this situation.


Conclusion, buy a better mixer. Get some decent cables and learn gain staging.

Ahha! Thank you!

Right, sorry to sound thick but can I just clarify the method you mentioned above. Correct me if I'm wrong but it sounds like your suggesting I do the following.
My XP80 and K2 get hooked up via 1/4" jack cables to channel 3&4 and 5&6 respectively (1&2 are mic input only). I keep the gain pots turned right down, but bring the channel faders for each up to (0) unity gain. Then I bring the master fader up on to the same level. The main output of the behringer, also on 1/4" jacks then heads out in to the main mixing desk, again the fader is set to (0) and bring the gain pot up until I get distortion, back it off and then bring the gain up on the behringers channels? Is this correct?
I'm pretty sure with the gain pot on the behringer right down for each external unit, I won't hear a thing. Unless i've missed something.
Sorry about sounding so dense about this.

Or, having reread it, do you mean bring the channel faders on the behriner up and the volume on each keyboard up until I overload the mixer, then back them all off a little and make up the difference using the gain pot?

[hyper.real]

You can get a copy of the manual from Behringer's website. But essentially:

1. Start with *all* faders and gain pots at minimum.
2. Turn the HIGH eq pots counter-clockwise 1 notch. (This is not in the manual, but is required for a flat response. I know, I have one).
3. Connect your synths - stereo by the sound of it. (BTW Inputs 1 and 2 will do Line level, but only mono).
4. For each instrument, bring up the channel fader to 0dB, then turn the channel gain knob until the clip light illuminates, then reduce the gain knob until it doesn't.
5. If when adjusting eq on that channel you get clipping, reduce the gain knob some more.
6. Finally, bring up the Main fader until either the output '0' light is hitting, or the mix engineer starts swearing, whichever comes first.

Use the channel faders to set a balance between the instruments. Use your ears to check that the main output isn't distorting on transients (synths are somewhat upredictable) and reduce the main gain if that happens.

[TurboJets]

Originally Posted by RonT

Best solution is turn the gain all the way down on the mixer. Turn your monitoring solution up and then crank the volume of your external gear (keyboard) until the mixer distorts. Then back off a couple of db.

Now you can add the rest of the gain needed with the mixer if any at all is need and use the fader for volume control. This is all about proper gain staging for a proper ratio of signal to noise.

thumbsup

Meaning, turn your Gain knobs all the way down, set channel faders for your input channels to "0", Mute all other channels, and make sure EQ knobs are zero'd. Crank the output from your keyboard to a decent level. When you've done that, if you need more gain then start nudging your Gain knobs up little by little to "open it up". I found the UB series to be pretty dang quiet when I had a UB1204 as long as the Gain knobs were down. If I wanted a little more "air" I'd sneak the Gain knob up a bit.

[ootini]

I get it now. Thanks very much folks.

[RonT]

Originally Posted by ootini

I get it now. Thanks very much folks.

Alot of times people will think that a particular piece of equipment sux and sometimes it does! But even still you can get some good recordings out of it knowing a little bit about gain staging. Just because something goes up to 10, doesnt mean that it sounds good at 10.

Some mixers/equipment have a high tolerance for high gain and some don't. This is known as headroom. Sometimes that clip light is good when you want some saturation, most of the time you are already way past the sweet spot.

I was at a small venue a week ago and man I just couldn't take it! The mics sounded like $hit, the speakers sounded like $hit, the band sounded great but the house made them sound like $hit! I just couldn't take it no more. I found myself behind the little make shift dj booth and sweating for about 5 minutes and left with $50 bucks in my pocket and free drinks for the night!

Gain Staging'