ART Digital MPA II vs GAP Pre 73

[cdbluff]

This will be my first mic pre purchase, and I'm going crazy trying to decide between these two (ART Digital MPA II vs. GAP Pre 73). My budget is right around $400 and I'm trying to record vocals and acoustic guitar with an acoustic folk rock sound. I am using an SM7B, CAD GXL 2200, and an Audix OM2 at the moment. Can someone help me decide or suggest a different mic pre? Thanks!

Edit: I'm just still confused on how this works lol. I know how to set up a basic chain, but I've never heard of an SPDIF (I haven't been doing this long). I go from the mic to the in of the 73. Then I use a 1/4 cable to go from the out of the 73 to the in of my interface. Then that goes to my mac w/ logic. Is that right? Or do I need an SPDIF?

[DAS19]

Get the 73 man. If you are going to buy ART, just buy the 100 dollar TubeMP ive heard good things done with those and at that price range, a couple hundred dollars more will just put you further away from buying a real mic pre, eventually.

[changeng]

I have the Art Pro Channel (the pre on that is supposed to be an MPA) and the GAP73. The GAP is better in most cases - always better on vocals, the Art sometimes wins on instruments, but the Pro Channel also includes a compressor and eq - I don't think I've ever used the pre by itself - that might tell you something.

[ivmike]

Originally Posted by DAS19

Get the 73 man. If you are going to buy ART, just buy the 100 dollar TubeMP ive heard good things done with those and at that price range, a couple hundred dollars more will just put you further away from buying a real mic pre, eventually.

This is not good advice at all; I at one time owned the Tube MP and promptly returned it; I returned it for an ART PRO MPA II and have never looked back. The Tube MP is a glorified DI or guitar pedal at best.

Regarding the OPs post of GAP vs. ART MPA D I would ask the OP these questions:

1: Do you need the SPDIF output? If not, purchase the MPA II; it's the same machine at a slightly lower price (it has no digital output).

2: There are a number of threads on this board regarding the differences between the MPA II and the GAP-73; have you researched through those threads yet?

3: Do you have an opportunity to go to a music shop to try them out with your mics? I'd recommend trying both of them with the SM7, as it has very low gain, to see which one works for you.

4: Do you need two pre-amps or one? The ART PRO MPA II is a two channel pre-amp; the GAP is a single channel.

5: Each pre-amp colours the sound slightly differently; could you save more money and buy both?

I think that you can't go wrong with either pre-amp; I am very happy with my ART PRO MPA II; my studio clients are thrilled with the recordings I have done using it; I'd be happy to post links to recordings if you'd like to hear the MPA II in action.

[cdbluff]

Originally Posted by ivmike

This is not good advice at all; I at one time owned the Tube MP and promptly returned it; I returned it for an ART PRO MPA II and have never looked back. The Tube MP is a glorified DI or guitar pedal at best.

Regarding the OPs post of GAP vs. ART MPA D I would ask the OP these questions:

1: Do you need the SPDIF output? If not, purchase the MPA II; it's the same machine at a slightly lower price (it has no digital output).

2: There are a number of threads on this board regarding the differences between the MPA II and the GAP-73; have you researched through those threads yet?

3: Do you have an opportunity to go to a music shop to try them out with your mics? I'd recommend trying both of them with the SM7, as it has very low gain, to see which one works for you.

4: Do you need two pre-amps or one? The ART PRO MPA II is a two channel pre-amp; the GAP is a single channel.

5: Each pre-amp colours the sound slightly differently; could you save more money and buy both?

I think that you can't go wrong with either pre-amp; I am very happy with my ART PRO MPA II; my studio clients are thrilled with the recordings I have done using it; I'd be happy to post links to recordings if you'd like to hear the MPA II in action.

1. I'm just getting into recording, and I don't really know what an SPDIF is used for. I'm running my mics through an M-Audio ProFire 610 straight into my iMac right now. Do I need an SPDIF to link whichever pre I buy to the ProFire 610?

2. I have read tons of threads and it all persuades me to buy both pres. That's why I'd like to get them compared by which is better for vocals and acoustic guitar.

3. I don't think they sell the GAP or the ART anywhere around where I live, so probably not.

4. I don't need two channels, but it wouldn't hurt.

5. I can't save more at the moment, but in the future I will probably buy whichever one I don't buy this time around.

I'd love to hear some recordings!

[wyattscott]

I have a fully modded Zenpro GAP 73. Love it. I'd go with that and I'm pretty sure Warren at ZenPro would tell you to get the unmodded GAP 73 as well. This is based on telephone conversations with him in which he even recommended the GAP 73 over the ~$800 Daking Mic Pre One. The GAP 73 is the shit.

[cdbluff]

Originally Posted by wyattscott

I have a fully modded Zenpro GAP 73. Love it. I'd go with that and I'm pretty sure Warren at ZenPro would tell you to get the unmodded GAP 73 as well. This is based on telephone conversations with him in which he even recommended the GAP 73 over the ~$800 Daking Mic Pre One. The GAP 73 is the shit.

I was planning on getting the Tantalum mod, just because I can't afford the full mod. I'm just still confused on how this works lol. I know how to set up a basic chain, but I've never heard of an SPDIF (I haven't been doing this long). I go from the mic to the in of the 73. Then I use a 1/4 cable to go from the out of the 73 to the in of my interface. Then that goes to my mac w/ logic. Is that right? Or do I need an SPDIF?

[Fast Frets]

Originally Posted by cdbluff

I was planning on getting the Tantalum mod, just because I can't afford the full mod. I'm just still confused on how this works lol. I know how to set up a basic chain, but I've never heard of an SPDIF (I haven't been doing this long). I go from the mic to the in of the 73. Then I use a 1/4 cable to go from the out of the 73 to the in of my interface. Then that goes to my mac w/ logic. Is that right? Or do I need an SPDIF?

You are correct. Use TRS or XLR from your pre to the interface. No SPDIF is necessary. Have fun! BTW, the GAP 73 is very nice.

[ivmike]

Originally Posted by cdbluff

1. I'm just getting into recording, and I don't really know what an SPDIF is used for. I'm running my mics through an M-Audio ProFire 610 straight into my iMac right now. Do I need an SPDIF to link whichever pre I buy to the ProFire 610?

2. I have read tons of threads and it all persuades me to buy both pres. That's why I'd like to get them compared by which is better for vocals and acoustic guitar.

3. I don't think they sell the GAP or the ART anywhere around where I live, so probably not.

4. I don't need two channels, but it wouldn't hurt.

5. I can't save more at the moment, but in the future I will probably buy whichever one I don't buy this time around.

I'd love to hear some recordings!

Since you asked so nicely, here is a track where the following have been pre-amped through the ART PRO MPA II (get that one, not the Digital MPA - save a couple of bucks)

1. Ribbon overheads on the drums (Apex 205)
2. Guitar amp (Line 6 Amp with an Apex 205)
3. Acoustic guitar (Kel HM2D and SP B1)
4. Vox (Kel HM2D and SP B1)
5. Bass (DI'd directly through the ART PRO MPA II)

And finally, the song in question. Enjoy!

[soul&folk]

Since you're going to be recording acoustic guitar, I suggest getting the preamp with 2 channels. You'll probably end up recording your acoustic guitar with 2 mics in various positions sometime early on. I'm not saying it's the only way to record AG but it's an important option to have.

[soul&folk]

Originally Posted by ivmike

Since you asked so nicely, here is a track where the following have been pre-amped through the ART PRO MPA II (get that one, not the Digital MPA - save a couple of bucks)

1. Ribbon overheads on the drums (Apex 205)
2. Guitar amp (Line 6 Amp with an Apex 205)
3. Acoustic guitar (Kel HM2D and SP B1)
4. Vox (Kel HM2D and SP B1)
5. Bass (DI'd directly through the ART PRO MPA II)

And finally, the song in question. Enjoy!

nice sounding piece! nice mix. just curious about your acoustic guitar rig. What type of guitar? Where did you position the mics? Which one went where?

[JoeDeF]

Originally Posted by cdbluff

This will be my first mic pre purchase, and I'm going crazy trying to decide between these two (ART Digital MPA II vs. GAP Pre 73). My budget is right around $400 and I'm trying to record vocals and acoustic guitar with an acoustic folk rock sound....

Of the two listed, get the ART MPA II (skip the "Digital"; you don't need S/PDIF, so save the money).

And the reason is: you will want two channels to record lots of sources, acoustic guitar being high on the list. While you could record acoustic guitar with one mic, you will certainly want to try the time-honored technique of a SDC pointed at about the neck/fretboard joint, and a LDC a bit further away to catch some of the "bloom" coming off of the top.

Two channels will allow you to experiment with many other techniques, such as Mid/Side, as well as XY, spaced omnis, and other techniques down the road.

Acoustic music requires the engineer to capture some of that "you are there" feeling, with rich and vivid stereo imaging. Often, two mics will be the way to do that. So, get a two channel pre.

Joe

P.S. - If you want different recording colors, you can pick up another pre down the road, or you can buy some NOS tubes fairly cheaply to get more colors out of the ART. Or, you can get your different colors by mic choice and especially placement, and by mastering different mixing techniques and using plugins. If you are just starting out, don't worry too much about preamp colors yet. Just learn to record cleanly with excellent mic placement, and everything else will eventually fall into place.

[changeng]

Thing is, if you're gonna go the MPA route, don't forget to replace the cheap tubes it comes with - I'm using a NOS Raytheon and Valvo in my Pro Channel. Makes a big difference.

[ivmike]

Originally Posted by changeng

Thing is, if you're gonna go the MPA route, don't forget to replace the cheap tubes it comes with - I'm using a NOS Raytheon and Valvo in my Pro Channel. Makes a big difference.

And the tubes in mine are......stock.

Just remember to burn them in for a few days and you are golden.

[ivmike]

Originally Posted by soul&folk

nice sounding piece! nice mix. just curious about your acoustic guitar rig. What type of guitar? Where did you position the mics? Which one went where?

It's the player, not the guitar that makes it sound so good.

That and a wee bit of compression.

[soul&folk]

Originally Posted by ivmike

It's the player, not the guitar that makes it sound so good.

That and a wee bit of compression.

true, true, but the other stuff matters too. any info that can be shared?

[zardoz505]

Originally Posted by ivmike

And the tubes in mine are......stock.

Just remember to burn them in for a few days and you are golden.

Tube "hunting" can be fun also, sneaking around goodwill and St. Vinny's

[Smooth Apparatus]

I happen to use Shure's SM7B with the Golden age pre and it's an awesome combo, especially on my voice (baritone, but I do falsetto). The Golden Pre has a good amount of gain for the SM7B, which needs it. I’d suggest saving a little more and getting two Golden Pres for the sake of stereo where needed. Or, get one Golden Pre now (if you can’t wait) and then score another soon after – that’s what I’d do and in fact what I will do.

[fzit0]

If you want an ART Pro MPA II used I have one here mint condition for $180+shipping.

Now to answer your question, between the gap and the art I choose the gap. I have both and the gap pre 73 is a huge step above the art. It's like night and day.

I highly recomend the gap

[ivmike]

Originally Posted by fzit0

If you want an ART Pro MPA II used I have one here mint condition for $180+shipping.

Now to answer your question, between the gap and the art I choose the gap. I have both and the gap pre 73 is a huge step above the art. It's like night and day.

I highly recomend the gap

I'd be curious to hear why you feel the GAP is "a huge step above".

[fzit0]

Originally Posted by ivmike

I'd be curious to hear why you feel the GAP is "a huge step above".

Well, the results I've been getting with my at4047>gap pre 73 are superior than those of the at4047>art pro mpa II.

I can upload some clips later when I come back from uni.

[ivmike]

Originally Posted by fzit0

Well, the results I've been getting with my at4047>gap pre 73 are superior than those of the at4047>art pro mpa II.

I can upload some clips later when I come back from uni.

Cool; have you only been using this one mic?

And the unsung aspect of the MPA II - it is an outstanding DI for bass.

[Chauvin]

I've had a Art MPA with Mullard Tubes and sold it. It was was alright and did produce some good takes, but it never gave me results I was totally happy with. I have not used the GAP but have heard good things about it, BUT I've also heard good things about the MPA

You should also look at the Electro Harmonix 12ay7 Mic Pre, these are meant to be nice aswell thumbsup

[doulos30]

normally id recomend the gap73 but if your just starting out 2 preamps will work better then 1 get the art but you dont need the digital out yet so skip it and get the non digital one

[nathanp]

Just thought I'd mention that the art mpa line (Art Pro MPA, MPA gold, and Pro MPA II as well as the pro channel) are nothing like the Art MP at all. The art MP is a starved plate design I believe (correct me if I'm wrong). The MPA gold and MPA II run at high plate voltage. I'm pretty sure the Pro MPA and Pro Channel do as well, but i can't find a spec to prove that hunch.

I'm sure you can get good results with the MP too. It's all subjective. Only thing I'm sayin is that it's the difference between a pre that uses the starved plate design and one that uses tubes properly. The MP, as well as other starved plate boxes I've had including the presonus bluetube, are pretty much unusable after a certain gain level as the saturation of the tubes in box's that implement them in this fashion just sounds thin and yucky.

Though there are many high enders that bash art and say that they are junk, there are just as many people on these forums who testify that they are some of their favorite pres even after they've gotten much better boxes. AudioProz, from what I can tell a pretty well respected audio company, recommends these units as being high quality units.

All I'm sayin' is that the reason for the price difference between the mp and the mpa boxes is clear. While these boxes may not be as pristine as some 1K units... it all depends on your def of good sound. I don't give a shit about the grammy's def of good sound, or "radio ready" quality, etc. If it sounds pleasant to my ears and does a good job of presenting the artists idea, then that's what I care about.

[cedar]

To answer your question about "what is s/pdif"- s/pdif is a digital connection that can be used to connect your preamp or similar device to your audio interface. The GAP preamp will use analogue outs, but if you have an interface which has s/pdif inputs, then you can use the d/a converter in the Art to send a digital signal to your interface, thus freeing up your analogue inputs. It effectively gives you two more inputs. If your interface does not have s/pdif, then you don't need that feature of the Art.
I use a Digi 002, which has 8 inputs. I've added an 8 channel ADAT preamp which adds an additional 8 inputs. I also have the Art digital Mpa, and using the s/pdif, I have an available 18 simultaneous inputs. That was a big reason why I got the Art. I think it works great! The variable inpedance knob adds an interesting color. I'm also considering a GAP as well. I mainly use an RE20 for vocals, and the Art doesn't quite have the gain needed to drive it. You may have a similar problem with the Sm7? That's why I'm looking at the GAP...
Good luck!

[ivmike]

Originally Posted by cedar

To answer your question about "what is s/pdif"- s/pdif is a digital connection that can be used to connect your preamp or similar device to your audio interface. The GAP preamp will use analogue outs, but if you have an interface which has s/pdif inputs, then you can use the d/a converter in the Art to send a digital signal to your interface, thus freeing up your analogue inputs. It effectively gives you two more inputs. If your interface does not have s/pdif, then you don't need that feature of the Art.
I use a Digi 002, which has 8 inputs. I've added an 8 channel ADAT preamp which adds an additional 8 inputs. I also have the Art digital Mpa, and using the s/pdif, I have an available 18 simultaneous inputs. That was a big reason why I got the Art. I think it works great! The variable inpedance knob adds an interesting color. I'm also considering a GAP as well. I mainly use an RE20 for vocals, and the Art doesn't quite have the gain needed to drive it. You may have a similar problem with the Sm7? That's why I'm looking at the GAP...
Good luck!

If you find that your MPA doesn't have sufficient headroom to drive low-gain microphones, I heartily suggest replacing the tubes. I recently did this with my MPA II (basically the same machine as yours, except there is no digital output) and the difference is tremendous. I swapped the stock tubes with Sylvania Long-Plate NOS tubes (purchased through BOWIE on this site). A few tests with my low-gain Apex 205 ribbon mics yielded night and day results for me; we had much more clean gain than with the stock tubes. Send BOWIE a PM - it'll make your MPA a great pre for low gain (and high gain) sources.

[cedar]

Originally Posted by ivmike

If you find that your MPA doesn't have sufficient headroom to drive low-gain microphones, I heartily suggest replacing the tubes. I recently did this with my MPA II (basically the same machine as yours, except there is no digital output) and the difference is tremendous. I swapped the stock tubes with Sylvania Long-Plate NOS tubes (purchased through BOWIE on this site). A few tests with my low-gain Apex 205 ribbon mics yielded night and day results for me; we had much more clean gain than with the stock tubes. Send BOWIE a PM - it'll make your MPA a great pre for low gain (and high gain) sources.

You're right, ivmike, I probably would get more gain from some different tubes. I'm running some vintage 60's rca long plate 12ax7s now, but I'm sure all tubes are different! Maybe I should try Sylvanias!

[David C.]

If you can handle used, I'd add the Grace 101 and FMR Audio RNP into your research. The RNP is the best sounding two channel pre for the money I've ever heard. I got one on ebay for around $330.00.

That said, I've got a GAP 73 and it's great if you want some attitude in your tracks. It would NOT be my first choice for acoustic guitar though. I've also got a one space ART pre that I just got for the S/PDIF out. As another poster noted, it adds two channels to my interface which as S/PDIF in. The ART is okay, not my fav though for acoustic guitar.

Point being, I personally like the Grace and RNP miles more for acoustic guitar than the pre's you're considering, and they both excel on vocals as well. My two cents.

[nathanp]

Originally Posted by David C.

I've also got a one space ART pre that I just got for the S/PDIF out. As another poster noted, it adds two channels to my interface which as S/PDIF in. The ART is okay, not my fav though for acoustic guitar.

Point being, I personally like the Grace and RNP miles more for acoustic guitar than the pre's you're considering, and they both excel on vocals as well. My two cents.

What is this 1 space ART that you have? Does it happen to be the ART DPS II
http://www.artproaudio.com/products....6&cat=9&id=97? That and the TPS II are the only ones I know of that come in a 1 space rack unit.

I am not familiar with this model, but from what I've heard, it's not nearly at the level of the MPA preamps. I'm not sure what level of voltage the tubes in the DPS II (or TPS II, same thing w/o A/D), or what other differences in quality and design might be, but the Digital Pro MPA II is 400, while the DPS II is 229.

Anyways, I think you would feel much differently about the Art MPA gold or the Pro MPA/Pro MPA II, as well as the pro channel. From what I've heard, most of their other preamps outside of this line are indeed not "up to snuff" by most people's standards. I think a lot of people tend to not give ART products a chance because of the fact that the Tube MP unit has kind of become the laughingstock of the GS preamp connesuirs.

Again, I have never used the TPS or DPS pres, so take it with a grain. I have used the Tube MP and I agree that it's not that great of a unit. If it was my only experience with art, I wouldn't have the best opinion of them either. It is definitely leagues below the MPA line.

Does anyone on here have any first hand experience with both one of the preamps from the MPA group as well as one from the TPS/DPS line? Tube MP as well perhaps?