Dbx 286a

[nixoblivion]

can i bump this. any info on the 286a? i cant find very much on gearslutz. on google its mostly positive info. any comparison to other pre's?

[PreacherX]

Originally Posted by nixoblivion

Hey i have a few questions about this preamp.

I have the option of getting one for 115€. I think this is a good price, the question ist just is it worth it.
Right now i have an MBox2 and im using those Preamps. I dont record much (i run a mixing Studio) but i do have the one or the other Overdub Session.
The question is, will the DBX be significantly better? I sure like the idea of a light compression and de-essing, maybe even gating. But are those good quality? I mean this pream does everything, preamp, comp., deess and gate... can it do it well?
The other question is, how about going into the DBX 286A with a Bass or Guitar, without a Di? Will this work? I know my Mbox has a DI switch which changes the Impendance as far as i know...

Last but not least, where are the differences to the 286s (studio version)?

I have one and i find it very usefull, what i like the most is the compression and enhancement parts. It has a fairly slow attack so you can push it pretty hard without loosing too much dynamics.
I mainly use it on kickdrum, i do alot of metal and want that enhanced click so i slap a D6 on there with a bit of compression and the Hi-enhancement on 10 and pair it up with a Subkick for the lows. I also use it on bass but i dont plug it straight in, i use an amp. Pretty much the same going on there, a bit of compression, HI-enhancement to get a bit of string and punch in there and sometimes i use the gate if the amp is too noisy. Used it on rap vocals too a couple of years ago, that time with the low-enhancement and it worked out great.

I've had it for years and it keeps growing on me.

[nixoblivion]

Thanks for the reply. Very useful.

Well my main thing will be recording vocals for finished tracks. Sometimes maybe for bass or guitar (for software amp sims).
My main thought would be having a compressor in front of the converters which i think will be very usefull, if not for sound then at least for the vocalist to hear himself better in quiter passages!

Im not quite sure what the enhancer does! What ive read, the LF enhancer adds at 80Hz but cuts at 250Hz at the same time. So this is more like a fixed EQ from what i get. Not quite sure how the HF enhancer works. In the manual it is described to be intelligent and automatic, which seems a little awkward.
Also i notcied the Gate is the last processor, at least on the front plate. I hope this is not the same in Signal Flow. That would be quite stupid, but i doubt DBX would make such a mistake (though already having it backwards on the front plate is quite stupid!)

But my main question. Will the 286a be a noticable and distinctive improvement over my mbox2?
Im also getting a new mic, at4047 (which i think will have more improvement than the preamp).

[PreacherX]

Originally Posted by nixoblivion

Thanks for the reply. Very useful.

Well my main thing will be recording vocals for finished tracks. Sometimes maybe for bass or guitar (for software amp sims).
My main thought would be having a compressor in front of the converters which i think will be very usefull, if not for sound then at least for the vocalist to hear himself better in quiter passages!

Im not quite sure what the enhancer does! What ive read, the LF enhancer adds at 80Hz but cuts at 250Hz at the same time. So this is more like a fixed EQ from what i get. Not quite sure how the HF enhancer works. In the manual it is described to be intelligent and automatic, which seems a little awkward.
Also i notcied the Gate is the last processor, at least on the front plate. I hope this is not the same in Signal Flow. That would be quite stupid, but i doubt DBX would make such a mistake (though already having it backwards on the front plate is quite stupid!)

But my main question. Will the 286a be a noticable and distinctive improvement over my mbox2?
Im also getting a new mic, at4047 (which i think will have more improvement than the preamp).

I would say that yes, it will be an improvement if you like the features on it. The preamp itself is good, nothing over the top but absolutley not bad, it's in the other features it shines. I've never read the manual so i dont know what it technically does on paper but i know that i find use for it in every session i do. Latley i've been starting to dabble with it for OTB mixing but since i only have 1 so far (Deffinatley thinking about getting another one) so i'm limited to the mono sources so i havnt been able to REALLY try it out yet.
I've always recorded with the processing to tape and i dont think i've ever regret commiting to something afterwards, it's always kinda just worked for me.

[nixoblivion]

Thanks.
I would like to work more with outboard gear for recording. Thats why this came to my to mind. And for 115€ thats a great price.
Im just wondering if 115€ for preamp, gate, eq, compression and deesser might show the quality. especially since its from a name brand, dbx, which you pay for as well...

[asap audio]

The 286A is a marvel at it's price point. Burr Brown chip in the preamp.
Compressor designed by Robert Orban. (Orban broadcast audio processors
that cost upwards of $15,000)

You will not be dissapointed.

[Vodski]

I don't know if it make any difference to you but the phantom power is running at 15v on this unit.

[asap audio]

not on the newer ones (last seven years). they are all 48v.

[nixoblivion]

The only thing thats a bit worrysome to me now is that i've read (soundonsound old article) that the old version has the gate last in the signal chain. I still cant find a reason why this would make sense! That would be a pretty useless position for a gate. This way i might as well gate in the box! i thought it would be nice to gate before the compressor! Can anyone take position on this?

Originally Posted by asap audio

You will not be dissapointed.

Thanks!
I've only read good about it, which is worrying me a bit at that price point. Im wondering the the preamp alone will make a big difference compared to the mbox2 preamps. Yes the compressor will be very usefull, that im sure of!

Originally Posted by Vodski

I don't know if it make any difference to you but the phantom power is running at 15v on this unit.

Yes, i've read about this in the older models. Seems to be quite problematic. But as far as i know, the 286a should me 48v as asap said also! Thanks for the tipp though

[asap audio]

The earliest models were labeled "Project X". All the other models are 48v.

Most channel strips gate/expand post compression. The expander on the 286 is very adjustable and works silently yet effective.

[kevin mask]

hello, I got the 286a mainly for some live rock vocal work and compression, is it normal that it fattens the voice so much? voice really gets dark and boomy with it, while I'd rather use a bright and twangy voice for the stuff I sing, the HF enhancer doesn't help so much, it only generates high feedbacks for what I've heard so far, while the background boominess remains, any help or suggestions in order to get a brighter sound? or is the boominess just a 286a characteristic?

[nixoblivion]

Originally Posted by asap audio

Most channel strips gate/expand post compression. The expander on the 286 is very adjustable and works silently yet effective.

Please explain this to me. I dont see how this would be useful? The point is normally to gate pre compression. Its useless to me otherwise, or am i missing something?

Originally Posted by kevin mask

or is the boominess just a 286a characteristic?

As far as i have read until now, the 286a is very transparent a clear. It doesnt really change the sound of the mic. Ive heard good and bad about the enhancer and would first try without it! Are you sure its not the mic, thats boomy? If your using a 58 or something, then you'll have a lot of 200-300Hz when your close. Here the LF enhancer could help (since it cuts at 250Hz and adds at 80Hz).

[kevin mask]

As far as i have read until now, the 286a is very transparent a clear. It doesnt really change the sound of the mic. Ive heard good and bad about the enhancer and would first try without it! Are you sure its not the mic, thats boomy? If your using a 58 or something, then you'll have a lot of 200-300Hz when your close. Here the LF enhancer could help (since it cuts at 250Hz and adds at 80Hz).

hi and thanks for the reply, yes I'm using a 58, but without 286a the mic alone does sound brightier, so I was wondering if this machine can really benefit my voice type (which tends to be naturally deep and boomy) or not, isn't the LF enhancer supposed to add bassy freqs?

[TRANQUILO]

its a cool pre. especially when coming into the daw already processed with compression, de-essing, enhancement, gate, etc. I find that it gets old though. like you end up not using all the time because you dont always want to process before the daw...however its good none the less for its features and price.

[nixoblivion]

Originally Posted by kevin mask

hi and thanks for the reply, yes I'm using a 58, but without 286a the mic alone does sound brightier, so I was wondering if this machine can really benefit my voice type (which tends to be naturally deep and boomy) or not, isn't the LF enhancer supposed to add bassy freqs?

Read the manual. It explains that the LF enhancer is more like a fixed EQ that bumps 80Hz up and 250Hz down.
So this could help you. It still surprises me, that the s86a preamp alone darkens your sound. Thats not what i heard about it...


So can someone please explain the reason why a gate would be post compressor? this makes no sense to me. How would i use that gate?

[kevin mask]

Originally Posted by nixoblivion

Read the manual. It explains that the LF enhancer is more like a fixed EQ that bumps 80Hz up and 250Hz down.
So this could help you. It still surprises me, that the s86a preamp alone darkens your sound. Thats not what i heard about it...

I'll try to mess around with the LF, I thought it was a bass knob so I always kept it off and try to turn up a little the HF which I thought it was a treble knob, could it be the compressor that darkens? I normally keep the drive knob at 3 or 4 (more than that it's gonna feedback) and density at 3

[PreacherX]

Originally Posted by kevin mask

I'll try to mess around with the LF, I thought it was a bass knob so I always kept it off and try to turn up a little the HF which I thought it was a treble knob, could it be the compressor that darkens? I normally keep the drive knob at 3 or 4 (more than that it's gonna feedback) and density at 3

I tried adding some processing to a Rap-vocal just a couple of days ago. What i found was that the Density knob did darken it a bit, it remained more clear with the density set to 0 and the drive knob up a bit. I didnt end up using it because it brought forth too much room noise (Badly recorded vocals) so i had to keep it ITB and notch and be more gentle with it.

I have the Project 1 btw, and i hardly ever use the gate for recording because i never know how the client is gonna play, so i rather use it ITB where i can see what's playing and dont end up taking away half of it.

[kevin mask]

I've come up with the conclusion that the boominess is due to the compressor and its lack of knobs available for setting it, it really tends to distort even at low settings, I never keep it higher than 3 or 4 and it really does clip easily creating a massive aura of bassy freqs distortion, I'll keep experimenting with it but I'm afraid there's nothing much I can do, it only has 2 knobs

[nixoblivion]

Originally Posted by kevin mask

I've come up with the conclusion that the boominess is due to the compressor and its lack of knobs available for setting it, it really tends to distort even at low settings, I never keep it higher than 3 or 4 and it really does clip easily creating a massive aura of bassy freqs distortion, I'll keep experimenting with it but I'm afraid there's nothing much I can do, it only has 2 knobs

Maybe your sending in too much from the preamp. As far as i know the threshhold of the compressor is defined by thd input gain...

im still wondering about the use of a gate post compressor! any ideas?

[kevin mask]

Originally Posted by nixoblivion

Maybe your sending in too much from the preamp. As far as i know the threshhold of the compressor is defined by thd input gain...

im still wondering about the use of a gate post compressor! any ideas?

never went higher than 4 with the mic gain, or it'd kill everybody around me with feedbacks

[kevin mask]

another question, I'd like to plug a delay into the "insert" of the 286a, how should I plug it? I read the instruction but sincerely I couldn't make heads or tails out of what it's written, it mentiones a tip, a ring etc what is it all about?

[SongsByGROVER]

it's a massively noticeable improvement from the pre's in my M-Audio FW1814, both the standard one and the BLA modded one. Pretty clean and clear to me. And i've seen them regularly for £80 on eBay, so you really cant complain that theyre not worth it. I'm probably gunna buy another for my basic stereo acoustic tracks, then get a classier single pre for vocals and the 12th fret mic. (almost got a Grace M101 for cheap)

i'd take this over a Meek VC3, but maybe a SixQ or TwinQ would be better (havent heard them yet)

Apparently DBX stuff is underrated in the UK, so i'm told. The owner at my studio raves about the 576 we have for vocals, though i usually use the avalon.

Regarding the delay... you probably dont care anymore, but for future readers... to insert an effect into the chain (according to the picture on the back) you need a stereo (TRS/Tip-Ring-Sleeve) 1/4" plug that splits into 2 mono plugs which go into your effects box input and output. The one wired to "Tip" goes to the FX input and the one wired to "Ring" goes to FX output.

post gate compressor is still useful because the gate affects the quietest bits of signal and the compressor affects the loudest bits of signal. so in normal use they dont interfere. only when you have the thresholds for both turned way up does it affect the behaviour. (in my understanding). This means it's fine for gating vocals/guitars/etc, but would probably not be great for gating toms/kick/snare (if you want to compress as well).

I use this pre basically just for vocals in my bedroom, and the way i set the gate is this:
- set the rest of the controls first... gain, eq, comp, output
- turn the gate threshold so it's 1 click below being open in only ambient noise
- ratio at max

this way it aggressively gates out the fan noise from my iMac, but the slightest whisper or lip noise near the mic makes it open. and it closes nicely BTW, I've never heard it chop anything off dead.

[foldback]

We use a 286A with an SM-58 on the female lead singer in our rock band and it just might be the best sound we've ever gotten on her.

I say might be because the other hot setup for her voice is the SM-58 with a vintage API 312 mic pre feeding a UA1176 (the chain at our recording studio). We have not been able to A-B these two recording chains next to each other.

I bought the 286A new by mistake off ebay. We started using it on a session to record crunch guitar sounds and we all really liked it.

When we moved to our new broadcast studio we tried it on Marys voice and it sounded big and fat (when set correctly). She has a relatively low pitched voice for a female and many vocal chains sound thin or harsh on her voice. The enhancer section of the 286A is very good for a small amount of fine tuning and that's all her voice with this microphone needed.

The two-knob compressor works great. We have the left knob at about 11 oclock and the right knob at about 3:30 position. You need to experiment with the compressor, it can either make the mic sound huge or small and lifeless, it's all in the settings used with the particular singer.

We don't use the de-esser or the gate sections. As soon as I try to put any of the gating on her she immediately protests that something is messing her up.

I would definitely buy another one of these, it's a good box and amazing for the price. I did not know that Orban designed the compressor section, interesting factoid.

The lack of compressor controls is not a problem, it's the way this piece is designed. Same for an original DBX 160 VU, not many controls there but wow engineers sure swear by them. Same for the DBX 163 (one knob squeezer), the original only had a single slide control on the face, ultra simple yet many people lovey them.

Best to all of you in your recordings!

[christopherwrd]

I know this is an old thread but maybe someone can help me out.

Anyone know how this pre would compare to the preamps in the Apogee Duet? or Ensemble? I know that they are both Apogee units have really clean, pristine preamps. I'm looking to add a bit of color to some of my tracks.

[Ortus]

For what it's worth, my father uses two of these units regularly for broadcast production work and gets a GREAT sound out of them with his SM7Bs. To put this endorsement in context, my dad, while not a musician, has been a professional broadcaster and broadcast engineer at the highest levels of the industry since the mid-60s and has used pretty much every piece of gear their is (Doug Fearn, aka DW Fearn, is a close personal friend and former employee of my father).

[dero]

Anyone that uses one of these have any insight has to what it might do with piano?

[junior]

Originally Posted by Ortus

For what it's worth, my father uses two of these units regularly for broadcast production work and gets a GREAT sound out of them with his SM7Bs. To put this endorsement in context, my dad, while not a musician, has been a professional broadcaster and broadcast engineer at the highest levels of the industry since the mid-60s and has used pretty much every piece of gear their is (Doug Fearn, aka DW Fearn, is a close personal friend and former employee of my father).

The radio studios I work in have a bunch of these installed and the head engineer raves about them. They sound good to me...

[Rascal Audio]

Mbox and dbx 286a, if I'm not mistaken, use similar IC's for the mic preamp (INA217, SSM2019, THAT 1512, etc.). I've not done a careful comparison of each, but they look similar in performance, so I don't think you'll find the preamp portion of the dbx to be a significant upgrade to the Mbox's. You may very well find the compressor and other features of the dbx to make it much more useful, however.

I used to have a pair of the original version of the 286 and liked them for drum room miking. I could blow up the preamp and hit the compressor hard and the enhancing was cool for this purpose as well. Not something you want to dominate your drum mix, but a very interesting sound to give your drums attitude when blended in.

Joel