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ART Pro Channel users - a REAL mod - read!
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changeng
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10th January 2011
Old 10th January 2011
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ART Pro Channel users - a REAL mod - now with clips!

(scroll down for clips)
I’ve had a Pro Channel for about 6 years now and dang – it comes SO CLOSE to what I wish the thing could do. BUT it sounds flat – 2D-ish. I’ve researched possible mods, but there really have been none. Changing the tubes gives you a different flavor of flat. It can act as a color box, BUT it’s preamp sounds flat.

Six years of use and mine was getting a little mangey – poppy, crackly. I found a place online (in Boston) called AudioProz - Welcome to Audioproz.com where the owner, Vince Naeve, was doing odd things with the ART Pro MPA and the TPS. There was almost NOTHING online as far as reviews, except one detailed review of a TPS he modded on tapeop.com. And that one sounded ReeEeEly interesting.

So I called Vince and asked him if he works on Pro Channels. As it turns out, he has just started to. Kismet! Vince gave me a schooling on the phone (seriously – Vince is an encyclopedia of audio knowledge and if you call him, make sure you have some time, because he’s IN IT to make sure you understand what he’s doing) Mine was getting grumpy – there was a little hum and buzz and the VU light burned out, so I was either gonna throw mine out or give it to a mad scientist to diddle with.

I sent it to Vince two months ago and got it back last week. I’ve played with it for a few days and the change is substantial. First off, he repaired whatever was wrong with it, so now it’s KLEEN. Cleaner than it ever was. And then come the mods.

1) He modified the power supply – I don’t know if he is pushing any extra voltage into the circuit (since the Pro Channel is a nicer starved plate) but the overall tone of the first preamp stage is cleaner, crisper and …rounder.
2) He installed a Beyer microphone transformer into the vactrol compressor circuit – so when you push the opto compressor and turn the transformer knob, it reduces gain by an extra 2dB while bringing up the lower end and making the higher end a little cleaner. Instead of that flat-sounding opto compression, it has more of a “blend” sound, more natural, but still compressed, with a little transformer zing to the signal. It’s more obvious when you run a mix through it, but still there on a microphone or a clean guitar. The tube compressor is unaffected.
3) He re-jiggered the VU so it’s actually USEFUL now. If you have a Pro Channel, you know the VU meter is fairly useless, but now…it’s actually reacting faster, more like the led meters. This is cool.
4) A second new knob – affecting the third-stage Master Gain knob, adds harmonics to the tube circuit - he calls it a “variable cathode bias control”. At 12:00, there’s no real change. Turn it to the left and out-of-phase 2nd harmonics are added –To the right, it adds in-phase 2nd harmonics. He says it’s only a 2% addition and it is very subtle – but it’s definitely there on vocals and on a clean guitar, it’s very apparent (and seems to be what the Pro Channel has been missing all along).

There is much more “tube” character in this starved plate design now. As many tones as the stock Pro Channel could originally generate, it has more now. Besides sounding even better on electric guitar now (one of the stock unit’s best uses), it’s now more useful on vocals. One fun discovery so far - if you think of the preamp and compressor as one unit, you can drive the new transformer built into the vactrol by pushing the preamp’s output and keeping the compressor at it’s lowest setting (2:1). Of course, if you push the compressor, the affect blossoms and gets downright plump the harder you hit the compressor. Also, it can now really crush a signal.

I won’t be able to use it in a proper recording for a week or two, but when I do I’ll post some clips.

The mods cost me $250, including the shipping from L.A. to Boston both ways. I don’t know if his prices will go up or not, since mine was one of the first units he modded. He’s doing a bunch now, so expect it to be gone for 1-2 months. Although it costs more to mod this unit than it does to buy a new stock one, this was very worthwhile to me. He sells the stock units and if I decide to get a second one to do stereo stuff with, I would just buy one directly from him, since he QCs each unit he sells. That would save some shipping and time. For a total of under $450, you’d get a helluva cool box.

Last edited by changeng; 29th January 2011 at 04:34 AM.. Reason: added title
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10th January 2011
Old 10th January 2011
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put me down for 10




..just kidding.
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11th January 2011
Old 11th January 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by changeng View Post
I’ve had a Pro Channel for about 6 years now and dang – it comes SO CLOSE to what I wish the thing could do. BUT it sounds flat – 2D-ish. I’ve researched possible mods, but there really have been none. Changing the tubes gives you a different flavor of flat. It can act as a color box, BUT it’s preamp sounds flat.

Six years of use and mine was getting a little mangey – poppy, crackly. I found a place online (in Boston) called AudioProz - Welcome to Audioproz.com where the owner, Vince Naeve, was doing odd things with the ART Pro MPA and the TPS. There was almost NOTHING online as far as reviews, except one detailed review of a TPS he modded on tapeop.com. And that one sounded ReeEeEly interesting.

So I called Vince and asked him if he works on Pro Channels. As it turns out, he has just started to. Kismet! Vince gave me a schooling on the phone (seriously – Vince is an encyclopedia of audio knowledge and if you call him, make sure you have some time, because he’s IN IT to make sure you understand what he’s doing) Mine was getting grumpy – there was a little hum and buzz and the VU light burned out, so I was either gonna throw mine out or give it to a mad scientist to diddle with.

I sent it to Vince two months ago and got it back last week. I’ve played with it for a few days and the change is substantial. First off, he repaired whatever was wrong with it, so now it’s KLEEN. Cleaner than it ever was. And then come the mods.

1) He modified the power supply – I don’t know if he is pushing any extra voltage into the circuit (since the Pro Channel is a nicer starved plate) but the overall tone of the first preamp stage is cleaner, crisper and …rounder.
2) He installed a Beyer microphone transformer into the vactrol compressor circuit – so when you push the opto compressor and turn the transformer knob, it reduces gain by an extra 2dB while bringing up the lower end and making the higher end a little cleaner. Instead of that flat-sounding opto compression, it has more of a “blend” sound, more natural, but still compressed, with a little transformer zing to the signal. It’s more obvious when you run a mix through it, but still there on a microphone or a clean guitar. The tube compressor is unaffected.
3) He re-jiggered the VU so it’s actually USEFUL now. If you have a Pro Channel, you know the VU meter is fairly useless, but now…it’s actually reacting faster, more like the led meters. This is cool.
4) A second new knob – affecting the third-stage Master Gain knob, adds harmonics to the tube circuit - he calls it a “variable cathode bias control”. At 12:00, there’s no real change. Turn it to the left and out-of-phase 2nd harmonics are added –To the right, it adds in-phase 2nd harmonics. He says it’s only a 2% addition and it is very subtle – but it’s definitely there on vocals and on a clean guitar, it’s very apparent (and seems to be what the Pro Channel has been missing all along).

There is much more “tube” character in this starved plate design now. As many tones as the stock Pro Channel could originally generate, it has more now. Besides sounding even better on electric guitar now (one of the stock unit’s best uses), it’s now more useful on vocals. One fun discovery so far - if you think of the preamp and compressor as one unit, you can drive the new transformer built into the vactrol by pushing the preamp’s output and keeping the compressor at it’s lowest setting (2:1). Of course, if you push the compressor, the affect blossoms and gets downright plump the harder you hit the compressor. Also, it can now really crush a signal.

I won’t be able to use it in a proper recording for a week or two, but when I do I’ll post some clips.

The mods cost me $250, including the shipping from L.A. to Boston both ways. I don’t know if his prices will go up or not, since mine was one of the first units he modded. He’s doing a bunch now, so expect it to be gone for 1-2 months. Although it costs more to mod this unit than it does to buy a new stock one, this was very worthwhile to me. He sells the stock units and if I decide to get a second one to do stereo stuff with, I would just buy one directly from him, since he QCs each unit he sells. That would save some shipping and time. For a total of under $450, you’d get a helluva cool box.
Good to see somebody else found out about Vince. I've known him for years and have had several pieces of gear he modded or worked on. He does great work! You're right as well about him making mods unlike what anybody else is doing. As you said, you better have an extra hour or so if you get him on the phone. I wish I knew 1/4th of what he does about the intricacies and nuances of various pieces of studio gear. After hearing your description of your modded Pro Channel, I wish I would have saved the one I used to have and sent it to Vince instead.
changeng
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11th January 2011
Old 11th January 2011
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What else has he modded for you? I've been trying different tubes in the unit to enhance the cathode bias.

I'm thinking of snagging one of his TPS units. I read on here somewhere that someone took a fine sandpaper and removed the ugly blue paint on the thing and now it looks kinda mean and cool.
#5
12th January 2011
Old 12th January 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by changeng View Post
What else has he modded for you? I've been trying different tubes in the unit to enhance the cathode bias.

I'm thinking of snagging one of his TPS units. I read on here somewhere that someone took a fine sandpaper and removed the ugly blue paint on the thing and now it looks kinda mean and cool.
I had a DBX 128 he modded. I've had several versions of that box and the one Vince worked on was by far the quietest and most detailed of the bunch.
I know he does a bunch of mods to the ART TPS but have never heard or used one.
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12th January 2011
Old 12th January 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Coates View Post
I had a DBX 128 he modded. I've had several versions of that box and the one Vince worked on was by far the quietest and most detailed of the bunch.
I know he does a bunch of mods to the ART TPS but have never heard or used one.
do you know how much he charges for the TPS mod?
changeng
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13th January 2011
Old 13th January 2011
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no idea, but you should call him. If you have the stock unit and the $$$, I wouldn't hesitate. There's a tapeop review on their message board on the TPS.
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13th January 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by changeng View Post
no idea, but you should call him. If you have the stock unit and the $$$, I wouldn't hesitate. There's a tapeop review on their message board on the TPS.
alright will give the tapeop review a look if it's good I just may have to give him a call.
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18th January 2011
Old 18th January 2011
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just rolled a vintage Raytheon 12AX7 into the preamp stage and a Valvo 12AX7 into the final gain stage (thanks BOWIE !).

This thing is now sounding like I always wished it would! Lots of tubey, sparkly goodness - the "2-D" sound is gone. I don't know if the stock unit would show as much change, but if'n you got one, roll them tubes!
changeng
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29th January 2011
Old 29th January 2011
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finally some samples !

Hokay! Here are some audio samples, through my Layla 24/96 - they're mp3, 320 kps, and the sound isn't half-bad (please don't ask for WAVs, I just can't take the time right now - these are very representative). I wanted to make some simple examples of Vince's mods so you can hear the overtones, since some of this stuff is subtle.

1) So the first example is a stock 4-bar drum loop, just regular, no processing.

2) Same drum loop repeated several times, with the opto compressor set as heavy as can be - threshold at -20dB, ratio set at infinity, attack set to fast and release set to auto. The first bar is just the compressor, with the transformer knob at "0" (all the way to the left). Starting at the second bar, I start to slowly turn the knob to the right. Along with the loop getting LOUDER, you'll notice the compressed sound gets thicker. By the last measure the knob is all the way to the right - you'll notice the compression is FAT and clearer - still there but much different thanks to teh mic transformer built into the mod.

3) This one displays the Variable Cathode Bias control that has been added to the final gain stage. It's just my tele straight into the Pro Channel (comp bypassed) with the VCB knob at 12:00. I strum a G four times. Then I turn the knob all the way to the right, adding about 2% IN PHASE second harmonics - it's subtle, but definitely there.

4) This one starts the control at 12:00 and after four strums of E, I turn the knob all the way to the left, which adds about 2% OUT OF PHASE second harmonics. It's even more subtle, but there.

This mod (along with nice tubes) helps overcome the starved plate sound of the Pro Channel by cleaning up the power supply of the unit and adding the second harmonics knob. To me it makes a real nice difference and turns the Pro Channel into a far more useful tool. Hope you like the clips!
Attached Files
File Type: mp3 01-clean loop.mp3 (299.0 KB, 729 views)
File Type: mp3 02-compressor.mp3 (1.45 MB, 722 views)
File Type: mp3 03-0 gain mod- inphase harmonics.mp3 (1.11 MB, 886 views)
File Type: mp3 04-0 gain - out of phase harmonics.mp3 (1.23 MB, 768 views)
#11
23rd February 2011
Old 23rd February 2011
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Hey changeng, thanks for posting these sound clips. I designed this unit for audiophile recording, not really for guitar use. But I could mod it differently to get more of the harmonics effect! I use it myself... it's subtle and important, but it might not be very obvious unless used on a recording. Also, if you don't use the original tube, you can remove the unit's ability to correctly create in phase or out of phase harmonics. It is a very careful calibration! I definitely recommend sticking with the original tube.
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23rd February 2011
Old 23rd February 2011
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Hi Vince!

Welcome to Gearslutz! Is there a way for me to adjust the mod from here to get more of the harmonic effect?
#13
24th February 2011
Old 24th February 2011
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I'm interested in the TPS 2 mod but it really doesnt give a detailed list of what the mod changes and audio clips would be nice for it. Thanks in advance!
changeng
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25th February 2011
Old 25th February 2011
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You'll have to contact Vince for that at audioproz.com. I don't think he usually comes to discussion forums.
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25th June 2011
Old 25th June 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioProz View Post
Hey changeng, thanks for posting these sound clips. I designed this unit for audiophile recording, not really for guitar use. But I could mod it differently to get more of the harmonics effect! I use it myself... it's subtle and important, but it might not be very obvious unless used on a recording. Also, if you don't use the original tube, you can remove the unit's ability to correctly create in phase or out of phase harmonics. It is a very careful calibration! I definitely recommend sticking with the original tube.
Changeng
Did you ever have any issues with phase when switching the tubes, like he mentions? First time I heard anyone saying to stick w stock tubes.
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25th June 2011
Old 25th June 2011
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nah - it's been fine for me. Vince calibrates his mods for specific tubes, so i can see where he'd want to give a warning. Any NOS tube I've tried has been phase-free. i haven't tried cheap tubes in it, so that may be where problems arise.
#17
26th June 2011
Old 26th June 2011
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Did you stick w the specific (stock) tube types? Like 12ax7 stock to 12ax7 nos, or just try em all like nos 12ay7, 12at7, etc. In place of the 12ax7?
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27th June 2011
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tried a bunch and stayed with the ones I listed. all subtle differences once they're in a mix. more obviously if the instrument is solo'd.
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29th June 2011
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Don't want to put words in Vince's mouth but from previous conversations with him, I know he's not a big fan of replacing tubes with NOS ones. Something about using the tubes the unit was designed around and modding elsewhere. Vince, maybe you can chime in with your reasoning for why one should stay with the original tubes in a low end piece of gear. Caution: may generate a firestorm of controversy here.
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29th June 2011
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the only exception I know to that rule is when the circuit was clearly designed for a tube with particular specs and they supply a clearly wrong tube in it's place. the famous example being the apex 460. the values are actually wrong in the stock tube.
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#21
30th June 2011
Old 30th June 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkelley View Post
the only exception I know to that rule is when the circuit was clearly designed for a tube with particular specs and they supply a clearly wrong tube in it's place. the famous example being the apex 460. the values are actually wrong in the stock tube.
Dkelley,
Do you run your pro channel with stock tubes? Or just try to stay around the specific type of tube?....I have read the stock compression tube starts sounding good once it's broke in.
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30th June 2011
Old 30th June 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by branbolio View Post
Dkelley,
Do you run your pro channel with stock tubes? Or just try to stay around the specific type of tube?....I have read the stock compression tube starts sounding good once it's broke in.
stock. they're just fine in mine. I like the stock tubes in mpa golds as well often.

apparently swapping the compression tube can make it not work properly for a long time and it requires a long break in period as well. so yea, the stock tubes aren't unattractive sounding for me at all.

but I don't have useful tubes lying around to swap out and experiment with either these days so can't try anything right now to see what happens I'm afraid. I have messed with them in the past with useful results though, but can't recall what combos I used.

one thing to note - there are clear electrical circuit design reasons why some tubes sound different. it's not just gain amounts, there are other tube specs that alter the sound. one can actually sort of predict what will happen with a certain tube if one knows the circuits and tube specs well.

I do'nt though in the case of the pro channel so can't help much there. I do understand the circuits in some tube mics pretty well though and have managed to predict the outcomes of correct/incorrect tube choices pretty reliably there.

so someone with enough time on his hands and a solid electrical engineering mind can probably work out what tubes would be ideal for the pro channel, assuming the stock ones aren't.
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30th June 2011
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I just picked one up(used)and was curious what the "stock" tubes are/were/should be?
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30th June 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by studiodunn View Post
I just picked one up(used)and was curious what the "stock" tubes are/were/should be?
good question... I'm not at my studio right now and even if I was it's racked up right now so I won't be pulling it out and opening it tonight since it'll be used right away. I will sometime, but probably won't be able to in a timely manner to help you out.

Hopefully someone else can tell you.

some art products come wtih tubes that just say "china" on them.
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30th June 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkelley View Post
good question... I'm not at my studio right now and even if I was it's racked up right now so I won't be pulling it out and opening it tonight since it'll be used right away. I will sometime, but probably won't be able to in a timely manner to help you out.

Hopefully someone else can tell you.

some art products come wtih tubes that just say "china" on them.
Thanks.
I have quite the stash of 12a__ tubes, NOS and new. At the end of the day I wil do as I have with all the guitar amps I've owned, and spend a few hours testing the tone. This is the first time I've heard of a "tube specific" application other than __ax7, ay7 or at7.
New tubes, really all tubes in general, have such a loose tolerance( in terms of guitar amp needs) I'm just surprised any new production tube can offer something a NOS can't.
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1st July 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by studiodunn View Post
Thanks.
I have quite the stash of 12a__ tubes, NOS and new. At the end of the day I wil do as I have with all the guitar amps I've owned, and spend a few hours testing the tone. This is the first time I've heard of a "tube specific" application other than __ax7, ay7 or at7.
New tubes, really all tubes in general, have such a loose tolerance( in terms of guitar amp needs) I'm just surprised any new production tube can offer something a NOS can't.
well, tolerance doesn't mean bad (of course), it jsut means.... wrong LoL

so it's more of a trial and error thing with loose tolerances. Try one and see if it's any good.
#27
21st September 2011
Old 21st September 2011
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What do you guys think the best preamp tube model is (for vocals)? ive heard russian tubes are better and NOS tubes would give more character... which is the best for vocals? (ART PRO CHANNEL)
thanks
sean
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23rd September 2011
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I like the Valvo NOS for the sparkly tone it gives - hard to describe other than "sparkly". Since the preamp is fairly flat sounding on it's own, this tube gives it more true, unique character.
#29
24th September 2011
Old 24th September 2011
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I just bought a Pro Channel (used on ebay) and I have a few questions. Is it truly a tube audio path (or an op amp with an overdriven tube mixed back in for color)? Does it have any transformers (input or output side)? I have a few different tubes laying around (a sovtek 12AX7 and some brand 12AU7). are these worth trying out? What kind of voltages are used for the plate (low like 50V or higher like 200 - 400V)?

Thanks changng. I will probably call Vince and at least pick his brain (and maybe even send off the unit for mods).
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24th September 2011
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opamp - starved plate design. gets about 60 V. Vince's mods definitely give you more of a tube sound, and it's way cleaner because of his magic. no transformers. it comes stock with Sovteks - what your used one came with is ???

Call Vince and prep for a long call - he is an educator. Frankly, i wouldn't use a Pro Channel WITHOUT his mods. If you hadn't already bought one, I'd recommend buying one directly from him to save postage.
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