Alesis Masterlink

[Hope209]

Is it basically a glorified cd burner? I read somewhere that it can help improve your mixes in PT(or whatever sequencer) because it doesn't require you to bounce your mixes down and dither them. Also it has some EQ, compression, limiter in it, but would they really be necessary if you have nice plug-ins or good outboard gear?

So let's say I do my own psuedo "mastering." I'm not dealing with 96k files, I just need to create 16 44.1 for bands. Would the quality of the masterlink be at all superior to the cd burner in my mac G5? Thanks

[joelpatterson]

I don't know... but I do hear an awful lot of "suddenly it's not initializing" kinds of things about this unit. I'd love to get one myself, for recording concerts where I could get away with only two mics... and yet every time I turn around, all these un-nerving tales of woe.

[Sounds Great]

Originally Posted by joelpatterson

I don't know... but I do hear an awful lot of "suddenly it's not initializing" kinds of things about this unit. I'd love to get one myself, for recording concerts where I could get away with only two mics... and yet every time I turn around, all these un-nerving tales of woe.

I had one for a few years with no problems at all.

[Stratech]

The masterlink has to be one of the best studio toys I've bought in the 5 years. I use it for so many purposes. First of all yes, it is a glorified CD burner but, It only starts from there. It is a wonderful archiving tool as well. Take all those 1/4 inch 2 track masters and save them to CD @ 96K!!! Insert these CDs later and down convert a copy for standard CD listenning!! Then the best part is the converters are supreme!! I use the masterlink as a converter more than I do as a recording device. It is truly a high quality product and I've never had a single problem with it. I'd like to see Alesis come out with a re designed version of the Tascam DVD audio recorder that is currently on the market. Tascam left out the hard drive!!!! What good is a HD recorder if I can't go to hard drive first, manipulate the song order, etc. and then to 192K DVD??? Tascam's unit is useless!!!!

[johnny gren]

Originally Posted by Stratech

The masterlink has to be one of the best studio toys I've bought in the 5 years. I use it for so many purposes. First of all yes, it is a glorified CD burner but, It only starts from there. It is a wonderful archiving tool as well. Take all those 1/4 inch 2 track masters and save them to CD @ 96K!!! Insert these CDs later and down convert a copy for standard CD listenning!! Then the best part is the converters are supreme!! I use the masterlink as a converter more than I do as a recording device. It is truly a high quality product and I've never had a single problem with it. I'd like to see Alesis come out with a re designed version of the Tascam DVD audio recorder that is currently on the market. Tascam left out the hard drive!!!! What good is a HD recorder if I can't go to hard drive first, manipulate the song order, etc. and then to 192K DVD??? Tascam's unit is useless!!!!

I agree. Until I produce product in DVDA or some other new format the new Tascam box doesn't add value to me. I need to deliver CDs in most cases to clients. So I have two Masterlinks, no issues after 2-3 years. I don't always use their converters and avoid using their DSP, but I use them to dither down to CD from my normal 24x96 recording format. Good boxes for me anyway.

[Yetti]

Originally Posted by johnny gren

I agree. Until I produce product in DVDA or some other new format the new Tascam box doesn't add value to me. I need to deliver CDs in most cases to clients. So I have two Masterlinks, no issues after 2-3 years. I don't always use their converters and avoid using their DSP, but I use them to dither down to CD from my normal 24x96 recording format. Good boxes for me anyway.

I really like the Masterlink too. I bought mine a couple of years ago, and I have never had any issues....I like the big LED meters, and I feel it was a very good product for a resonable price.
I must say that I never really did figure out how to bounce an individual track from a "playlist" number to another playlist number. I gave up trying to figure it out, and I work around it by loading up my test mixes on 1 playlist, and ultimatley deleting the ones I wont use.
If anyone could offer a simple exlanation it would be much appreciated!!

[Hope209]

How could I incorporate the Masterlink into a 002 setup that already has it's optical and analog outs being used? I have an Apogee Rosetta 800, would the converters in that be better than the Masterlink?

So how do you actually export tracks into the masterlink? And what after that? Is there a software burner/whatever that operates in conjunction with the hardware? Thanks, guys!

[Stratech]

This may sound nuts and may not sit well with the rest of my fellow gear nuts out there but, use the analog outputs of the Digi-002 to the analog inputs on the masterlink. I'm sure most people cannot tell the difference. The digital converters inside the Masterlink are high quality and will give you monster results!! As far as your apogee rosetta, Apogee is a high quality product but after using apogee in various sessions I cannot say that on was way superior to the other. I'm sure that apogee converters are better than the Alesis but again, most cannot tell the difference. I'm not saying that there are no differences, just that the guy who buys the CD is not going to take the CD back to the stroe for a refund because apogee was not used and he/she wants their money back for that reason. they all sound really good these days and spending big$ on a converter because it's what it is is money wasted. One converter to stay away from is the Behringer 8000. That converter clearly sounds like horse $#!%. If you are looking to do all kinds of fancy editing and mastering, the Masterlink is NOT for you. However it is a very high quality piece of gear that has servered me well for many applications other than the ones i just mentioned. It's a no BS straight ahead, must have tool for any studio. I'd run to get one. I may buy a second one just to have simultaneous playback and record converters.

[JonCraig]

Originally Posted by Stratech

the best part is the converters are supreme!!

[gasp!] whaaa??? the masterlink converters are hands down some of the worst i've ever heard!!!

to each his own, i guess...

--jon

[Stratech]

I think what I said was taken way out of proportion. When you compare one product against the next and say that one of then sounds awwwwful!!! , then it should really sound that way. Is it fair to say that the sound of a Tascam TSR-8 1/2 inch machine sounds waaaaay awful than say a 2 inch 16 track machine? I think not!! One may sound better than the other but both will provide good results. That is the problem with music today. Too many people out there comparing and having discussions about how this item sounds way better than that one and that one is not as good as this one, etc. What about musicianship does that count???? Eric Clapton is going to sound great regardless to wehether he uses the Alesis converters or the apogee. My point is that unless you have the $ to buy a rack full of apogee converters, the Alesis will do more than a fine job at getting it done. High priced converters are not going to make a lame ass band sound great! Some of the best records that came from the 60's used what we now consider "primative equipment", yet you listen to those records now and they have magic in the sound that even apogee cannot match. Go figure. You want a good camparison on awful, try the Behringer 8000 converter. That is a prime example on awful. If when I transfer my 2" 16 track master to digital using my alesis HD-24 as converters and the result is a good one, then I would say that the HD-24 converter is a good converter. If my signal degrades then it sucks. Then comes the fun part. Now you will have to dither down to 16 bit 44.1 will that great converter really make a huge sonic difference then? I tend to think not. 16 Bit @ 44.1 is a good format regardless to the "purists" who knock it down. I say good, not great, I,ve heard some MP3"s that sound fantastic. The music industry (and by the way i'm in the business of providing the record companies with their listenning rooms) tried to make us buy their catalogs by putting out SACD's and DVD-A, and you know what?? 44.1 was good enough. We are purists the rest of them are not. So when you compare two components and both sound comparably good please don't use the word awful. In my industry using the word awful has cost some of the guys I've worked with their jobs due to a paying client having in his mind that "this" is what he or she wants to use. I usually say " the alesis does a fine job, most people will never even pick out the differences but if you would like to upgrade and have the $ to do so then apogee is a better choice. To all, keep one thing in mind. We all want to make the best sounding recordings that we could. But, if you just dropped 20K on converters and are going to sit in a rack and used occasionally then that is a bad finacial choice. I do own a very profitable studio in my house and when I decided to purchase a 1/2 inch two track headstack from JRF because the sound was going to be fantastic, that was a major mistake because when compared to the 1/4 inch machine the half inch headstack didn't make a $2400.00 difference. It was better but when the CD was pressed, did the person who bought the CD notice that the mixes were done on a 1/2 2 track format? Absolutely NOT!!! That's my point!

[Hope209]

Originally Posted by Hope209

How could I incorporate the Masterlink into a 002 setup that already has it's optical and analog outs being used?...

So how do you actually export tracks into the masterlink? And what after that? Is there a software burner/whatever that operates in conjunction with the hardware? Thanks, guys!

Sorry, dont mean to be a dick, but could one of you guys who have used the Masterlink offer your input into this question please. Using my optical and analog outs isn't an option. What do you do to send your session to the Masterlink and how do you arrange files and burn once they've been exported there. Thanks

[robmix]

Originally Posted by Hope209

Sorry, dont mean to be a dick, but could one of you guys who have used the Masterlink offer your input into this question please. Using my optical and analog outs isn't an option. What do you do to send your session to the Masterlink and how do you arrange files and burn once they've been exported there. Thanks

Why not use the SPDIF out's ?

Once in the masterlink you move files around, trim the heads and tails, and burn away.

[JonCraig]

Originally Posted by Stratech

One may sound better than the other but both will provide good results. That is the problem with music today. Too many people out there comparing and having discussions about how this item sounds way better than that one and that one is not as good as this one, etc. What about musicianship does that count????

everything you've said is true, and i'm one of the first to say that you can record a great band with shitty gear and it will still be great.

however, you said (in your original post):

Originally Posted by Stratech

Then the best part is the converters are supreme!! I use the masterlink as a converter more than I do as a recording device. It is truly a high quality product and I've never had a single problem with it.

"supreme"? i don't think so. "passable"? yeah. that will work.

--jon

[Hope209]

Does it have a convert to mp3 option? Can it group files together to a stereo file and then import it back to Pro Tools?

I'm sorry for being such a pain in the ass, I'm just trying to decide if getting a Masterlink is justifiable. I don't particularly like the sound of bounced to disk files, but I also don't work with 96k often. I have Pro Tools LE so when I have a bunch of tracks with plug-ins(especially guitar and drums) I sometimes have to bounce the files to stereo tracks and then import them to a final session for bouncing to disk...and I am starting to find that I'm losing a little bit of quality from multiple bounces.

So basically my question is-Does the Masterlink sound better than bouncing to disk, and how does the burner sound in comparison with the stock cd burner in my G5? Thanks again, everyone

[Stratech]

Hi Hope 209, You want to really make your bounces kick? Pick up an Analog 2 track. You can get them now for low $. Make sure it's a decent one that will operate @ 30IPS. When you align that machine properly and bounce to it, your ears will love it!!!. I started doing that when my studio received its first digital multitrack in 1985 and its been the way to go since. In my years in engineering and Studio design, I've used them all Sony 1610, you name it. Nothing beats a good, well maintained analog machine to bounce your tracks to. Then when you are all done, you can mix to it as well. The converters in my Studer A810 sound GREAT!!! Wait.... there are no converters in my Studer or my Otari MTR-10 1/2" 2 track. Get my point? Let's make good music and what sounds good will sound good regardless to how picky some people get with gear. I often used to find myself using up valuble time experimenting with tape formulations, bias settings and other important thing, but overlooked the essential things like making music. I owned a digi-002 for a short period of time and I must say it was not a bad unit. I unloaded it because it sucked up too much CPU. However, you can use the SPDIF I/O's for bouncing to the Masterlink and that will work fine, but I must say that nothing sounds like tape. Good luck with you search in audio satisfaction.

[Beauarts]

A useful tool but somewhat limited. I too think the converters are crap. The Tascam CRW5000 it replaced sounds much better. Only having 16 projects at one time is a real pain. I always have to dump something to work on a new project. Surely there must be an update for that?

The editing capabilities are ok. For a stand alone box it does it's job.

[joelpatterson]

... sounds alot like the kiss of death to me.

[Jason Poulin]

I like it


seems pretty crucial in our work environment.


Jason

[Hope209]

Originally Posted by Hope209

So basically my question is-Does the Masterlink sound better than bouncing to disk, and how does the burner sound in comparison with the stock cd burner in my G5? Thanks again, everyone

Sorry to bitch like this, but nobody has really answered my question

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by Hope209

Sorry to bitch like this, but nobody has really answered my question

What was the question again?


Uh how to use it if you are using all of your outs?


I think Rob set it best use the SPdif outs of the 002.

The only issue with this is the Masterlink will be clocked to the 002 so it can only record at the sampling rate that the 002 session is in.

It has its own software for arranging the songs.

You can also back up the data in the form of a CD24 disc.

All it is is a Data disc with the songs stored in AIFF files so you can literally bring them back into your computer and fix your files there.


It will not burn MP3's.


How does it sound compared to the ProTools bounce option?


I am not really sure since i only mixdown to it through the analog ins(i had my Masterlink modified by Jim Williams).


I know it works well.

The CD player itself is not the greatest.


It tends to color the sound upon playback.


Also it is sensitive to some CD's.


In your situation honestly i would think you don't needed it.


If your sound is changing in the bounces i would look at some of your mixdown practices.


The only place i could see an issue is if you are mixing at 48K and have to bounce to 44.1K.


Here there will be a sonic change based on the sample rate conversion.

[Hope209]

Thanks much

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by Hope209

Thanks much

thumbsup

[jmiller]

Wait a minute-

If you're trying to avoid the sound of "Bounced to disk" files in protools, masterlink CAN be a good way to do this. However, it will NOT bypass the dithering/truncating/downsampling stage if you go from your PT rigs digital outs into the digital ins of the Masterlink at any bit/sampling rate other than 16/44k. And although the ML is great, it's converters are hardly going to improve the sound of your mixes over an internal bounce, at least not enough to justify the expense.

Let's say you have a PT session recorded at 24/48k. If you were to connect your PT's digital output to the digital inputs of the Masterlink, this is what would happen: Upon selecting the Masterlink's digital inputs on the front panel, the ML's clock will automatically slave to the clock rate of your PT rig, in this example 48k. This is only changeable by changing the clock on your rig, which is obviously not an acceptable solution. You can select the bit rate on the ML from 16, 20, to 24. But since this example's session is 24bit, if you select any less on the ML, you are simply truncating bits.

So, let's say you decide to give me the finger and bounce your mix digitally to the Masterlink, setting it to 24bits and leaving it at 48k since you can't change that anyways. Your mixes record to ML's hard drive perfectly. Now, when you press the "Create CD" button, ML will dither/downsample all your 24/48 audio to 16bit 44k in order to create a redbook audio CD. You have now spent several hundred dollars to do what you were already doing in the first place.

I've never sat down and compared the result of dithering and downsampling in ML compared to PT, but having worked with both fairly extensively I'd venture to say that ML's algorithms are not going to beat out what your getting out of Pro Tools in this specific situation, definitely not enough to justify the expense. Masterlink is a great device (though a sh*tty CD player), but from what I gather from your posts it seems to me like a Masterlink would cost you too much to do too little. That kind of money can be better spent- on better microphones, monitors, room treatment, or outboard processing to put your mixes through. All of these will have WAY more impact on the sound of your final mixes than a Masterlink will.

Last year I assisted a lot on an ongoing project where the engineer did prefer to bounce to the Masterlink. However, in this situation, I was patching PT's analog outs into outboard A/D converters set at 16/44, THEN going into Masterlink via its AES inputs. I did compare this, as well as converters on ML's outs, and there was a remarkable difference. However, this was in an incredibly high end studio with a phenomenal engineer on an HD5 system. On a home setup with a Digi002, I'm not sure it's enough to justify the expense. I'm sure there are other parts of your chain that could be improved that would give a much better return than what you're asking. Then again, I am a bit tipsy.

One more thing- when you ask about connecting digi002's "optical" outs to ML, do you mean S/PDIF (rca connector) or actual adat type optical? If it's ADAT type, the Masterlink (VERY ironically) does not have these kind of inputs. Only S/PDIF rca or AES XLR for its digital connections.

[hannaent]

I've been using the Masterlink for about 4 years now. It has never failed me in a live concert. Very stable. I have to say though, that the converters and editing features are pretty lacking. I was always bothered by the fact that the system sounded a bit thin. I had nice mics and pre (Earthworks QTC-1 and 1022) and though I should be getting better results.

I greatly improved the midrange by upgrading to Lavry Blue A/D converters. I haven't had to EQ as much, and I've heard comments about better sound even after being converted to 16/44.

Also, I've always heard that all the Masterlink does when converting to CD is truncate the extra bits. I could be wrong here, but I much preffer the sound from Samplitude than the Alesis downsampling. Oh and talk about slow processing! I would stick to editing on a PC / Mac and just use the Masterlink as recorder for live settings.

Just my 2 cents. Hope it helps.

[rlnyc]

Originally Posted by hannaent

Also, I've always heard that all the Masterlink does when converting to CD is truncate the extra bits. I could be wrong here, but I much preffer the sound from Samplitude than the Alesis downsampling.
.

try storing at 88.2k rather than 96. 88.2/2=44.1. 96k -> 44.1 is much more complicated, and will impart artifacts. i am only speaking about getting reference cds to sound better, not talking about which is the highest internal resolution, although for my beans, 88.2 is just fine.

best,
rlnyc

[Snatchman]

Well....I have the MasterLink and been using it awhile. I like it but......The other night I really heard what Jim Williams has been saying about the Masterlink "masking" the sound on playback! I just happened to play one of my recorded tracks thru' a DVD player in my studio. Same playback chain ( monitors, mixer,speakers, etc. The DVD player revealed reverb tails, opened clarity that wasn't been heard played back on the Masterlink! I don't think the signal is "masked" monitoring thru the Masterlink, just on playback!.... But it do make you kinda of wonder if you play material out into other devices to be edited..! That being said, I like the machine..!....... (YEMV)

[illacov]

Why not just build a computer thats just for recording 2 track mixes?

You wouldnt need the fastest computer out, maybe 1.8 ghz at the most and just use one of the better sound cards as the AD/DA?

For example.

Why not build a basic Duron system with 512 mb of ram and a 80 gb hard drive or whatever floats your boat with an EMU 1212M? The only thing you would need to run is a 2 track recording program like Kristal or Adobe Premiere right? Set it at some insane sample right like 192 or 384khz and I think you just gave the Masterlink a bloody nose.

Am I missing something? Oh yeah put in a DVD burner and save your projects as 384 khz waves or 16 bit cds at 44.1 khz.

Please help me to understand.

Im sure the second computer method is WAAAAY cheaper than a masterlink. Actually a 2nd computer with Duron 1.8ghz applebred with a GIG of ram will run you 476 bucks before shipping. This is with mobo, case, soundcard, hard drive, chip and powersupply. If you know someone than can get you a faculty copy of windows xp they go for like 20 bucks and its the professional version. I think Kristal runs at 192 or 384 and its totally free.


Peace
Illumination

[JonCraig]

fit a computer, monitor, keybd, mouse, & audio interface into 2 rack units (or 3 w/ a rosetta for good conversion).

don't get me wrong... i'm not a masterlink fan at all, but that's one perspective.

--jon

[ShamansDream]

Originally Posted by Hope209

Is it basically a glorified cd burner? I read somewhere that it can help improve your mixes in PT(or whatever sequencer) because it doesn't require you to bounce your mixes down and dither them. Also it has some EQ, compression, limiter in it, but would they really be necessary if you have nice plug-ins or good outboard gear?

So let's say I do my own psuedo "mastering." I'm not dealing with 96k files, I just need to create 16 44.1 for bands. Would the quality of the masterlink be at all superior to the cd burner in my mac G5? Thanks

I use the Masterlink ML9600 for one thing: recording my final PT session. The signal chain is from the DigiOO2 analog to my Lexicon MPX-1 (Digi at 48/24, Lexicon at 44.1) and SPDIF the Lexicon into the Masterlink (44.1/16). I DO NO PROCESSING WITH THE MASTERLINK! I just cut up the 45-60 minute session into a one button push to a redbook CD. NO DITHERING ANYWHERE IN THE CHAIN!...and it works like a charm.

I can take the Lexicon out of the chain (the MPX-1 is limited to 44.1 SPDIF, btw) if I'm working on a hot track that needs limiting. In this case, I go to the Masterlink analog from the Digi.

This has never failed me in making a good solid CD and burning a few extra copies is a breeze. Don't rely on the Masterlink to do good processing, however. It just isn't good enough. PTLE will outperform anything you can process in the Masterlink, not even bit rate/sample rate conversions! Go into the Masterlink at 44.1/16 and be done with it. 96/24 is for posterity files just in case you want to bring it back into PT for a later remix or a professional mastering session.

[kindkind]

I want to use the masterlink as my bands backing track for our live shows. It will contain all of our drums and some synth stuff.

From what i have learned on this thread, you guys think that the ML colors the sound or sounds "thin" when playing back from cd. What about if you playback from HD??

This would totally defeat my purpose for having this machine. I was considering it because i assumed it would have great sound output.

I want a machine that has a hard drive and sounds GREAT coming out. anyone?
thanks
c