Zoom R24 Experiences / Problems

[ullanta]

Aaargh! This happened again today WITHOUT me changing the record-arming of any tracks. Quite distressing... I'm now forced to call the R24 useless for my purposes and hope for a bug fix... but I've gotten no response from Zoom in the last week... has anyone else seen this on the R24 or R16?

[dpolcino]

Yes this has happened twice for no reason. Yesterday was during a session with Larry David! Luckily I checked and didn't lose anything, but yes, I'd like to find out why it does this. In my case I didn't do any re-arming of tracks or anything like that. Picky with the SD cards maybe?

Please post a response if anyone figures this one out.

PS. They have a 1.10 version now and it mentions something about fixing a noise bug, so maybe that'll do the trick.

[ullanta]

Sadly, no... this definitely happens with the 1.10 firmware!

[sjohns37]

I've been looking at this device with some interest. Anyone else having this/solved this problem or have any other experiences with it? I'm mainly concerned with it as a control surface for Pro Tools.

[Nico_pa0nhc]

Hello,
a few days ago we recorded the Xmas concerto of our Fulcos Regional Mannenkoor, accompanied by a string quartet and a mezzo soprano in a the cathedral IJsselstein (Netherlands). We used 6 of my good C-mikes and cables, and the brand new Korg D888 purchased by a college choir member.
It should be less stressfull to record on 8track and mix later to stereo, than record stereo on my Pioneer video HDD recorder. You know, i have to sing too.
!!! Disaster !!!! After the fist concert-half, during the pause the recorder was "Working". But NOT READY FOR RECORDING AGAIN when the second concert-half started.
Result: missed 3 songs!
At end of the concert, the recorder was "Working" again. But when phantom power was switched-off tutt in order to disconnect the C-mikes, the recorder itself switches-off too. NO RECORDING OF SECOND CONCERT-HALF AT ALL.
>>> Question 1:
How much time the Zoom R24 needs to finish-off a recording of 45minutes of 8 tracks at 48kHz/24bit? Is it ready to record again within 10 minutes?\
---Question2:
How big then is the total file-size? Can it be backed-up on a (dual-layer-)DVD for archiving?

Who is willing to test this for us? fuuck

Greetings, Nico.

[sjohns37]

Also, I talked to a friend of mine who does location sound and he was concerned about the quality of the preamps and how deep the noise floor is. He suggested that a product as cheap as this might not work for dialog recording in the field because you would probably bring the noise floor up a lot quicker trying to get whispers and such than some more expensive recorder. Can anyone comment on this?

[ziziva]

Hi all,
This is the first forum post of any kind I have ever done. I am thinking about getting the Zoom R24. I live in Africa, and want something portable for multitracking my musician friends here. I have been using Protools LE with the original MBox and an old Powerbook G4. It just recently breathed its last breath. I want to move to something that is more portable, and the Zoom seems like a good fit. I have some questions:
1) Has anyone resolved the problem regarding white noise appearing on tracks that were recorded?
2) Is there a way to EQ the input signals prior to recording them?

When I am recording with my microphones, I like to be able to set the treble, midrange, and bass EQs just right while monitoring the signal... I like to do this before the signal goes to tape (or disk). But in the pictures, it does not look like the Zoom R24 has knobs for tweeking the input signals. Is there are control for this in the menus?

Thanks folks!
Ziziva

PS I also plan to use the Zoom as a controller for Protools, once I get Protools up and running on a new computer. Is it a good idea, or is there a better device for me?

[Michael_Joly]

Originally Posted by ziziva

Hi all,
This is the first forum post of any kind I have ever done. I am thinking about getting the Zoom R24. I live in Africa, and want something portable for multitracking my musician friends here. I have been using Protools LE with the original MBox and an old Powerbook G4. It just recently breathed its last breath. I want to move to something that is more portable, and the Zoom seems like a good fit. I have some questions:
1) Has anyone resolved the problem regarding white noise appearing on tracks that were recorded?
2) Is there a way to EQ the input signals prior to recording them?

When I am recording with my microphones, I like to be able to set the treble, midrange, and bass EQs just right while monitoring the signal... I like to do this before the signal goes to tape (or disk). But in the pictures, it does not look like the Zoom R24 has knobs for tweeking the input signals. Is there are control for this in the menus?

Thanks folks!
Ziziva

PS I also plan to use the Zoom as a controller for Protools, once I get Protools up and running on a new computer. Is it a good idea, or is there a better device for me?

I don't have a white noise problem with my R24 - the damn thing generates a tone around 1.5kHz on all tracks. Its back at Sweetwater for evaluation but Zoom has been totally unresponsive to the problem.

You can EQ on the way in.

I really do love this unit for the reasons you're looking into it - man, throw a 32G SD card in there and go to work wherever. But I hope they come up with an answer for the self generating tone and fix it.

[Michael_Joly]

I ended up fixing my R24 myself. Turns out the tone oscillation is caused by a power supply problem. Oscillation only occurs when phantom is on and the unit is running on the wall-wart. No oscillation problem with batteries. So I cut-off the supplied wall-wart and replaced it with a slightly higher voltage and current supply wall-wart. Solved the problem.

[chris319]

The software is up to version 1.20 now, released on March 4, 2010. Zoom says this:

Released as following bug fix version.

1. Project data accidentally overwritten while Sequential playback.

2. Send effect level becomes smaller by inserting an Insert Effect on master track.

3. Metronome volume cannot be changed by BALANCE knob during Sequential playback.

4. The [MASTER] fader doesn’t work when metronome switch is set to [PHONES ONLY] during playback master track.

Download Software

[ullanta]

Still haven't had any luck with the darn thing. Has no one else had the problems with "pure noise" tracks?

It occurs to me that I've been recording at 48k; has anyone else done longform recording at 48k without this problem?

[ullanta]

Finally, a response from Zoom:




Thank you for your inquiry.

We confirmed your similar problem. We will do our best to fix in this
problem. As a method of evading this problem, though the problem happens for
continued recording, please select the "Always New" about recording mode.
Please refer manual page 99. In this case, please don't use pause button,
then, use stop button for end of the song. Then, it always make the new file
when you push the stop button. When we fixed this problem, we will inform
you.

Thank you for your patience and cooperation.

Sincerely yours,
ZOOM CORPORATION
===================

[dpolcino]

Yeah, that makes sense (as in I rec/pause/rec a lot and have had this problem a number of times), so they should, uh, fix that. Good job getting a response!

[Michael_Joly]

yeah, thanks for the perseverance with Zoom. I got no answers regarding the self-oscillation problem I had, and then solved myself.

Great little box when its working right though! I think we're on the cusp of some great new music being made and recorded outside (Pitchfork rooftop concerts) and / or in unusual spaces. I believe portable multi-trackers with this level of quality and user-friendliness are as important to musicians / recordists as was the invention of oil paint in tubes was to visual artists ("Plein air" Impressionism flowed from that invention).

[Corran]

Originally Posted by Nico_pa0nhc

Hello,
a few days ago we recorded the Xmas concerto of our Fulcos Regional Mannenkoor, accompanied by a string quartet and a mezzo soprano in a the cathedral IJsselstein (Netherlands). We used 6 of my good C-mikes and cables, and the brand new Korg D888 purchased by a college choir member.
It should be less stressfull to record on 8track and mix later to stereo, than record stereo on my Pioneer video HDD recorder. You know, i have to sing too.
!!! Disaster !!!! After the fist concert-half, during the pause the recorder was "Working". But NOT READY FOR RECORDING AGAIN when the second concert-half started.
Result: missed 3 songs!
At end of the concert, the recorder was "Working" again. But when phantom power was switched-off tutt in order to disconnect the C-mikes, the recorder itself switches-off too. NO RECORDING OF SECOND CONCERT-HALF AT ALL.
>>> Question 1:
How much time the Zoom R24 needs to finish-off a recording of 45minutes of 8 tracks at 48kHz/24bit? Is it ready to record again within 10 minutes?\
---Question2:
How big then is the total file-size? Can it be backed-up on a (dual-layer-)DVD for archiving?

Who is willing to test this for us? fuuck

Greetings, Nico.

So this isn't about the R24, but so you know the D888 has a known bug where after you record once on a project, and push stop, it is fine, but the second time it will then be "working" as you had there for a long time. This is because of the undo function writing large files or something.

I used to use a D888 exclusively for a while, and it's an excellent machine, but you do have to work around the bugs a little. If you do a search you'll find the specifics in some other threads I've posted in, but frankly I didn't even know the D888 was still around.

[Skinnyman]

So this is my first post - apologies if I cover old ground or this is a stupid question....

I've been using a BOSS BR600 and got pretty good results with it but have recently upgraded to a Zoom R24 (after much research and having read through many of the relevant threads on this forum - thanks guys'n'gals).

I've got to say I'm really impressed with the R24. It took me a while to work out how to navigate around it and fit into it's workflow (unlearning the BOSS methodology as much as anything) but I've got the hang of most things now and got some decent recordings as a result. Well, decent if you ignore the lack of playing ability....

However. I started playing around with the Track sequencer. That was OK but then I decided to sequence some rhythm patterns and that's where I get stuck.

So I tell the machine to play Pattern A for a couple bars, then Pattern B for a bar and Pattern A again for a bar. That all works fine - but I then want the sequencer to loop the whole thing and repeatedly play the sequence I've set up. And it won't. I've scanned the manual (unusual I know) but can't find anything in there.

Anyone got any thoughts - I'm more than prepared to believe that I'm being dense and have missed something obvious - but I just can't see what it might be so any pointers greatly appreciated.

So far, the only thing I prefer about the BR600 to the R24 is the pattern editor - but if I can crack the issue described above, then I'll be a happy bunny.

Thanks in advance....

[giacomo]

Originally Posted by Michael_Joly

I ended up fixing my R24 myself. Turns out the tone oscillation is caused by a power supply problem. Oscillation only occurs when phantom is on and the unit is running on the wall-wart. No oscillation problem with batteries. So I cut-off the supplied wall-wart and replaced it with a slightly higher voltage and current supply wall-wart. Solved the problem.

Hi,

I'm having the exact same problem with my R24...could you tell us the voltage and current supply specifications of your new wall-wart? I'm willing to try the same thing, just to get the problem fixed...

many thanks

[Brendan Baker]

I just bought an R24 and can confirm a the synch/drift issue. I recorded my DAW's metronome for about 15 minutes and routed the signal to several devices including the R24. Then I imported and lined up the initial transients on each of the recordings against the click track. The R24 was the only device that went noticeably out of synch in 15 minutes. Based on my measurements, it drifts at about 4.16 ms per minute.

It's a great product aside from this (I haven't run into the noise issue mentioned above yet). But I bought this device primarily for recording audio for video shoots, so these results are really unacceptable.

I'm curious if the R16 has the same drift problem, as I don't expect to use the R24's sampler feature very often.

Hopefully this can be addressed in a firmware update and isn't a hardware problem. I wonder if it could simply be an inaccurate sample rate? No response from Zoom as of yet...

[Brendan Baker]

So I wrote this letter to Zoom:

"Hello,
I have a problem with my Zoom R24, and I'm hoping you can help me out. I bought the R24 to record audio during video location shoots (recording at 48khz on all devices, of course). But when I import the audio tracks to the video after the recording, I the audio and video go "out of synch" very quickly--after only a few minutes.

So I ran a test:
I recorded a digital metronome from my computer's DAW for about 20 minutes and sent the signal to the R24, and also to my new Zoom H2N, an M-audio Microtrack II, and to an external audio interface (a Pro Tools M-box) recording straight to my computer. Then I imported each recording and compared the waveforms in my DAW (Logic). I've attached some screenshots to demonstrate this. As you can see in the pictures, the R24 goes out of synch in just a few minutes. (You also can HEAR it going out of phase as clearly as you can SEE it.) Based on my measurements, it drifts at about 4.16 ms per minute. (The Zoom H2N also drifts a little, but NOT nearly as bad--after 20 minutes it was still in synch with my audio interface.) So in other words, the synch/timing drift problem on the R24 is very bad--much worse than any other device I tested.

However, when I use the R24 in audio interface mode (orange track in my pictures), I DO get accurate recordings.

I called Samson, and they told me to try a different SD card. I tried a Transcend 16GB card (TS16G-SDHC6), which is approved for use on the R24 and had the same problem. I also had this problem with the 1GB card included with the R24. Samson said my R24 might just be defective, so I returned it to the store and exchanged it for a new one. The new R24 has the exact same problem, so I think this might be an issue with all of them...

I bought the R24 to record audio for video shoots (as advertized uses on Zoom's website), but with this problem I can't rely on the R24. The most important thing is that I get accurate recordings--at least as good as the Zoom H2N can do. Does the R16 have this problem? If not, I might exchange it for an R16.

How can I we fix this problem? Could you fix this with a firmware update? (I'm currently running version 1.10.)

Thank you for your help and looking forward to your advice."

Here's their response:

"Thank you for your inquiry.
I'm sorry for the delay. We consulted to our engineer, and received reply from them. As a conclusion, it is a spec for the R24. It is concern with accuracy of crystal oscillator. Usually, acceptable range of the crystal oscillator is +/- 50ppm. Maybe we think that it is acceptable range, but we think that it is bad result. As the reason, the R24 is using chip of clock generator. And, the accuracy of the clock generator has brought this result. We adopted it for supporting standalone recorder and USB audio interface. In short, it is concern with hardware. Therefore, it can't fix with firmware updates. Then, the R16 is using same chip.

Thank you for your patience and cooperation."

I realize, of course, that I might be loosing something in translation, but it certainly sounds like there's a known hardware problem with the accuracy of clock generator on both the R24 and the R16. It's not clear what, if anything, they can or will do to fix it...

I wrote them a polite response asking what they recommend I do and will keep you posted.

[ultrabop]

Would using the FCP X audio/video synch tool negate the situation? I'm looking to buy a multi-track for band recording and mixing but also shoot video....

[BajenKeno]

Originally Posted by Michael_Joly

I ended up fixing my R24 myself. Turns out the tone oscillation is caused by a power supply problem. Oscillation only occurs when phantom is on and the unit is running on the wall-wart. No oscillation problem with batteries. So I cut-off the supplied wall-wart and replaced it with a slightly higher voltage and current supply wall-wart. Solved the problem.

Time for me to revive this thread as I have the same exakt problem as you do.
I hope you'll see this post Michael Joly

Anyway, you say you replaced the ac/dc adapter to one with current and voltage, I get a little uncertain. I was under the impression that you had to match power supply to unit exactly.
My adapter's output is 5V and 1.0A. You mean I can fo for one with higher output, and in that case, how much higher should I go?

This question is of course also directed to anyone blessed with the understanding of electronics