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Joly Modded MXL 2003a vs. Joly Modded MXL v67g
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molson
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26th October 2010
Old 26th October 2010
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Joly Modded MXL 2003a vs. Joly Modded MXL v67g

I know both of these mics have been discussed extensively on these forums, but I would love a comparison point of view as it looks like the total street price + mod price is pretty much the same and I would like to get the best value for my money as an all around great LDC for vocals, acoustic guitars etc..

MXL V67g - Street Price $99 - $119 + Joly Mod $199 = $298 - $318

MXL 2003a - Street Price $149 - $169 + Joly Mod $119 = $268 - $288

Thanks - Matt
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26th October 2010
Old 26th October 2010
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You may not find too many folks who have both mics since I just started shipping the first 2003a modifications.

I think it really comes down to your preference for either a FET / transformer-coupled mic (v67) or a FET / transformerless mic.
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26th October 2010
Old 26th October 2010
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Michael - I appreciate your response. Would you recommend having both or getting one of those options and going for your The MJE-K47H "Solo" - LDC capsule for SDC mics?

Obviously I would like to have a huge selection but can really only afford a couple mics and the mods and would love to have as much quality and versatility as possible.

Thanks - Matt
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26th October 2010
Old 26th October 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael_Joly View Post
You may not find too many folks who have both mics since I just started shipping the first 2003a modifications.
Just checked out your mods. The brushed finish and the headbasket look very nice. I'm just wondering if you change also the filtering capacitors that are not in the audio path to non-polarized ones? For what I've read that wouldn't make any audible improvement, actually elecrotlytics might do the filtering job better. Or do you have different view on the subject?
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27th October 2010
Old 27th October 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by molson View Post
Michael - I appreciate your response. Would you recommend having both or getting one of those options and going for your The MJE-K47H "Solo" - LDC capsule for SDC mics?

Obviously I would like to have a huge selection but can really only afford a couple mics and the mods and would love to have as much quality and versatility as possible.

Thanks - Matt
Well, neither the mod'd v67 or mod'd 2003a have my MJE-K47 capsule as a component of the modifications, nor do they offer SDC operation possibility.

However, the v67 is a faithful interpretation of the classic K67 capsule (boosted HF response) and the 2003a is a less-expense-to-manufacture version of the K67 with some electronic control of the timbre-balance. All the mics that I install the MJE-K47 capsule into (unlike the K67, this is a single backplate, lower phase shift capsule) use a low-phase shift, flat response circuit (no negative feedback or low pass filtering with the attendant phase shift that comes with those techniques to restore a "correct" timbre-balance from the K67).

So while the mod'd v67 and 2003a are nice-sounding mics, and great values as well (especially the stock 2003a), they do not have the subtle (but real) relaxed, open and non-fatiguing sound that the MJE-K47 / flat response circuit topology delivers.

I'm trying to be abstract enough to give you some information but allow you to make your own decision.
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27th October 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by molson View Post
Michael - I appreciate your response. Would you recommend having both or getting one of those options and going for your The MJE-K47H "Solo" - LDC capsule for SDC mics?

Obviously I would like to have a huge selection but can really only afford a couple mics and the mods and would love to have as much quality and versatility as possible.

Thanks - Matt
I'm not Michael, but I do have both a MJE-K47h/scd with PE upgrade, and a V67g modded by JJ Audio (retaining the stock capsule.) The mics serve different purposes. The MJE-K47h can sound harsh and fatiguing on bright sources (that are harsh and fatiguing to begin with.) A couple of my repeat clients come to mind. These guys are both baritones with a sort of piercing quality to their voices. The K47h only made it worse. These same singers sounded much more "relaxed and open" with the V67g. One of the guys said singing into the V67g was like falling into a pool of sound. (Perhaps I had too much reverb in the phones?)

On a mid-scooped singer like Rod Stewart or John Mayer, the MJE-K47H would sound much better than the V67g. My voice is leaning in that direction, and I've been using the MJE-K47H for pilot vocals, although I go to a modded tube mic with a Peluso cek367 capsule (U-47-ish) for final vocals. Likewise, on some acoustic instruments, the MJE-K47h "focused midrange" works better in the mix than a less mid-focused mic because it's bringing up more of the tone of the instrument. Nylon string guitar in particular benefits from the K47h's presence in a busy mix. The K47h also finds more use in a pop/rock setting where a mid-focused vocal sound reminiscent of the Beatles would work better than the sculpted sound of the V67g.

In other words, choosing between the V67g and the K47h is like choosing between Red and Blue. If you want to paint a picture with a full range of colors, you need both.
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molson
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27th October 2010
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Joly Modded MXL 2003a vs. Joly Modded MXL v67g

Thanks, both of those replies were very helpful. Leaning towards getting the v67 mod asap and the k47 on one of my sdc's after I complete a session in November
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10th November 2010
Old 10th November 2010
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might not be appropriate here

hey Michael,

would you be open to discussing which of your mods sound more open and transparent? Those that come out sounding the closest to that "ruler flat" ideal..

got a few joly mods so far.. wanting to get into more!
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12th November 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soniferous View Post
hey Michael,

would you be open to discussing which of your mods sound more open and transparent? Those that come out sounding the closest to that "ruler flat" ideal..

got a few joly mods so far.. wanting to get into more!
Michael will NOT answer YOU!... for at least one week, as he's in vacation in France. The nerve of the guy, taking a vacation....
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12th November 2010
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First post, howdy!

Hi, this is my debut here
I'm fairly new to recording by myself, trying to learn as much as I can from the experts here and also by tinkering incessantly on my own.

I have been reading and listening and listening and reading for the past month and a half. I am still torn between the MJ NT1-A mod, the JJ V67G mod, and the MJ V67G mod (is there a difference between the two v67 mods??).

I don't have money for both right now and I want to start with the one that would best capture a Martin D-28 acoustic guitar and soft-medium barritone/2nd tenor male vocals (some depth, good air, more smooth than gritty, fairly dynamic volume, not piercing or harsh). From what I have read, it seems that the MJ NT1A (w/ the MJE-K47h) mod may suit my needs. However, this mic would be used for mellow country/folky guitar+ vocal only, sparse projects (think Ryan Adams-Heartbreaker), and acoustic guitar tracks. I have an SM7B for vocals in a full mix.

So, my question is: Which mod/mic would give me the most intimate and detailed sound for solo-type work?

I'm going through an Apogee Duet, so I have plenty of clean gain and no real color from my pre. Also, if anyone has any files (other than those already posted, I have heard them all) they think would be helpful, I would love to hear them. Thanks!
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12th November 2010
Old 12th November 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pickinrooster View Post
I don't have money for both right now and I want to start with the one that would best capture a Martin D-28 acoustic guitar and soft-medium barritone/2nd tenor male vocals (some depth, good air, more smooth than gritty, fairly dynamic volume, not piercing or harsh).
Disclaimer: But for samples, I haven't heard the mics I'm about to mention. However, the cheap 2003A/603S combo is currently very popular on GS. Michael Joly sees in the 2003A the new king of the low-end mics. Take that as you will....
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12th November 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinocelt View Post
Michael will NOT answer YOU!... for at least one week, as he's in vacation in France. The never of the guy, taking a vacation....
And he didnt book one of MY houses? The NERVE of the guy!

www.brittany-hols.com
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12th November 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivansc View Post
And he didnt book one of MY houses? The NERVE of the guy!

www.brittany-hols.com
I'm sure he didn't know. I guess it means he'll have to go again.

[EDIT:] Hey, wait, I never said he was in Brittany, did I? How did you know??
#14
12th November 2010
Old 12th November 2010
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er... its a "working vacation" - client meetings, strategy sessions etc. Its amazing how quick some new solutions to challenging issues just come tumbling out when I get off the bench for a bit and think differently.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soniferous View Post
hey Michael,would you be open to discussing which of your mods sound more open and transparent? Those that come out sounding the closest to that "ruler flat" ideal..

got a few joly mods so far.. wanting to get into more!
First, thanks for your support! Re: "open and transparent" / "ruler flat" - Interesting question. There's really two parts to it - first, "open and transparent". To my ears, this means minimal reflections and refractions around the capsule that cause time and frequency domain coloration. In the case of an LDC mic, I try to achieve this by using single layer headbaskets with maximum open area wire mesh, minimal support structure and / or compound angles to minimize "grouping" of internal standing waves and generation of refractions. So I hear openness and transparency as a relative absence of comb filtering, peakiness, or time domain "schmerring" ("s" turned into "eshshh").

Now all of this can be achieved in either a flat response mic or a mic that has some capsule-based frequency response sculpting - in other words, I don't think of openness and transparency being defined by a flat frequency response alone.

Because "open and transparency" are so important to my work those qualities can be heard in quite a few of my mics - because I implement similar strategies across them. Just a few examples from my mod'd mic catalog that fit this bill: the Apex 460, Nady TCM-1050, MK-319 "Floating Dome", Rode NT1a for LDCs and the MK-012 and "Ultimate Mod'd SDC" 22mm mics like the 603, 1200, CM-90 etc.

Hope this clarifies what I think of when I hear (and strive for) "openness and transparency".

Quote:
Originally Posted by ivansc View Post
And he didnt book one of MY houses? The NERVE of the guy!

www.brittany-hols.com
Wow! Looks awesome. Meryl booked this trip and we're staying with a client in the farmland of St. Nicodeme - after our strategy retreat in Dinard / St. Malo

Cheers from London btw.
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12th November 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael_Joly View Post
er... its a "working vacation"
... because a real one would probably kill you.

(Here's another thread with a question for you.)
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12th November 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinocelt View Post
Disclaimer: But for samples, I haven't heard the mics I'm about to mention. However, the cheap 2003A/603S combo is currently very popular on GS. Michael Joly sees in the 2003A the new king of the low-end mics. Take that as you will....
Well, I do have that combo, since the beginning of the week. The one thing I have not seen anyone mention about the 2003a is that it is a very neutral sounding mic. You get the sounds that it picks up with very little change. If you are one of those who want "musical" sounding microphones it is not the mic for you. In other words it may be more "clinical" than many would like. I can not compare it to those expensive microphones because I have never used one. Personally, I like microphones that do not change the sound.

OTOH, to me the 603s sounds like just another cheap mic.
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12th November 2010
Old 12th November 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by graywolf View Post
OTOH, to me the 603s sounds like just another cheap mic.
Agreed +1000 - BUT, not modded with a MJE-K47H cap screwed onto it.
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12th November 2010
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Michael, just curious, how much lower down the vocal food chain is your modded MXL 990 vs. say a modded V67 or modded 2003a?

Guessing either of the latter MXL's will be generally superior, but have there been reports of the modded 990? I bought one just to screw around with BTW.

By running it through a Bellari MP105 tube mic pre it managed to reduce part of the high sibilance. Might be O.K. for my 'ol Tascam 244 (cassette)
4 track, to have that format cut off still more high end.

Chris
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13th November 2010
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Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinocelt View Post
Disclaimer: But for samples, I haven't heard the mics I'm about to mention. However, the cheap 2003A/603S combo is currently very popular on GS. Michael Joly sees in the 2003A the new king of the low-end mics. Take that as you will....
Thanks for the suggestion! I had been looking into the 2003A as well (to get an MJ mod done). They seem to be a really great deal.

So many awesome, affordable mods from Joly! Too bad I don't have more $ to invest in his stuff... based on his sound files, I'd love to take one of everything
#20
13th November 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov View Post
Michael, just curious, how much lower down the vocal food chain is your modded MXL 990 vs. say a modded V67 or modded 2003a?

Guessing either of the latter MXL's will be generally superior, but have there been reports of the modded 990? I bought one just to screw around with BTW.

By running it through a Bellari MP105 tube mic pre it managed to reduce part of the high sibilance. Might be O.K. for my 'ol Tascam 244 (cassette)
4 track, to have that format cut off still more high end.

Chris
I wouldn't say a mod'd 990 is lower down the vocal food chain - but here's how its different.

The 990 uses the standard SDC capsule found in the 22mm SDC pencil mic but it is installed in a large-ish, side-address headbasket. This combination actually has some upside potential. First, while they're not generally though of as "vocal mics", SDC mics can deliver very natural-sounding vocals (SDCs were in use at Motown on vocals frequently). When that particular capsule is placed in a large side address headbasket it performs better than when it is used on a stock 22mm SDC body. The narrow body vents contribute to an 8dB / 8kHz peak when used in the pencil mic formation but this peak is not present in the large, more open, side-address headbasket.

In addition the large side address headbasket is fairly easy to self-modify into the single layer style (with some patience) for greater openness and transparency. The capsule's own diaphragm screen can be removed as well (the large headbasket provides EMI / RFI shielding) to eliminate another parallel surface near the diaphragm an its HF coloration effects.

The the 990, with some TLC can be a quite nice sounding vocal mic with detail and openness.
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13th November 2010
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Thanks Michael, BTW am aware of the KM86 (Motown's usual vocal mic) close sonic relationship to the Neumann KM84.

My understanding is that the KM86 is slightly more open sounding, with a bit more presence. Would think then a KM84 would sound a little more compressed tonewise from the get go.

Thus your "hidden" KM84 type sound modification also seems in line with the Motown lineage comment-not that I know THAT much about all this!

Chris
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26th January 2011
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Just got my Michael Joly modified V67G with the MJE-K47 mod. I also have a JJAudio modified V67G and an unmodified V67G. So here are some quick comparisons, with apologies to Johhny Cash it was the first song to pop into my head.

Just standing in front of the mic, with a windscreen, no level changes, tried to match my position/distance best I could, no effects, no treatment, just encoding as 320kbps MP3.

..ant
Attached Files
File Type: mp3 MXL V67G Unmodified.mp3 (1.51 MB, 499 views)
File Type: mp3 JJ Audio Mod MXL V67G.mp3 (1.51 MB, 484 views)
File Type: mp3 Michael Joly Mod MXL V67G.mp3 (1.57 MB, 445 views)
#23
26th January 2011
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Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by antstudio View Post
Just got my Michael Joly modified V67G with the MJE-K47 mod. I also have a JJAudio modified V67G and an unmodified V67G. So here are some quick comparisons, with apologies to Johhny Cash it was the first song to pop into my head.

Just standing in front of the mic, with a windscreen, no level changes, tried to match my position/distance best I could, no effects, no treatment, just encoding as 320kbps MP3.

..ant
Thank you for the time and effort you spent to make this demonstration.

Peace
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26th January 2011
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Wow, that Joly clip surprises me. Not a lot of articulation in the top end. It is certainly rolled off heavily it would seem. Certainly has less "sibilance" though.

I have no allegiance to either modders, but do have some Joly mics that I like and use often.

I just don't like that mic on that clip. Don't like what it is doing to the guitar in particular.

I would have to choose the JJ mic on this source, treble, sibilance ...whatever.

Although I was not in the room with you, it seems way more faithful to the source in this case?

If the Joly mod is shooting for the 47 sound, I think the top is too rolled off for my perception of it. Or maybe it's a clarity thing...it just sounds "stifled" to me. Not enough clarity or rise in the presence range maybe?

I'd have to hear it on other sources I guess to judge.

Anyone else hear this, or am I nuts? Wait, don't answer that

Sorry Michael, no offense.

J

Last edited by NEWTON IN ORBIT; 26th January 2011 at 06:06 AM.. Reason: stupid typo...
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26th January 2011
Old 26th January 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NEWTON IN ORBIT View Post
Anyone else hear this, or am I nuts? Wait, don't answer that
I heard it straight away, and was 98% sure the clips were out of balance - volume wise.

Pulled them into PTHD and the JJ audio clip is 4.1dB LOUDER than either the Joly clip or Stock clip. Put the files into your DAW, raise the MJ clip 4.1dB and the Stock clip 4.1dB, and re-listen. I think you may have a different opinion.

Any fair test should be at least within a couple tenths of a dB. Not 4.1dB off. That makes it impossible to tell, and really, does a dis-service to the comparison. Just saying. Thanks to the OP for the clips though.....it's nice to hear one mic three ways. The first thing I always check is levels when listening to clips from the internet. Without checking, it's a crapshoot as to what your'e listening to.

(PS - I didn't measure all the way thru the clip, just thru where Johhny gets stuck in folsom prison.... )
Attached Thumbnails
Joly Modded MXL 2003a vs. Joly Modded MXL v67g-jj-clip.png   Joly Modded MXL 2003a vs. Joly Modded MXL v67g-joly-clip.png   Joly Modded MXL 2003a vs. Joly Modded MXL v67g-stock-clip.png  
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26th January 2011
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It's three takes and proximity may have a big effect. When I get a chance I'll try to set them up head to head and do a simultaneous take.

..ant
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26th January 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antstudio View Post
It's three takes and proximity may have a big effect. When I get a chance I'll try to set them up head to head and do a simultaneous take.

..ant
that would be nice

not that it sounds brilliant but for me the unmodded sounds the most natural when all levels are about equal. in both modded mics i hear something wrong...
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27th January 2011
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Yeah, I was really not trying to bag on the Joly modded clip.
FWIW, he did a stand up job on my 012's, and they sound great.

I have a CMC6 here that an employer of mine has given to me on indefinite loan. They loaned it to me for video work, along with some other things..mixer, porta brace, fishpole etc. I am expected of course to bring this stuff when I show up to do A1 work for them, but am allowed to use it at my place as well.

Anyway, long story short, after Michael did my mics, they sound of the same caliber as the Schoeps, but they are a little different. Some difference is to be expected, because straight away the pickup pattern is completely different on the Schoeps. Not to mention the circuit

When I asked him to mod the 012's, I simply wanted more clarity and air from them, and he did just that. They seem a bit quieter too.

All of that said, the CMC6 still sounds brighter, on every source. This is not always what you are looking for though. On some things, the CMC6 gets put away cuz' it just sounds to thin for me. Too thin and like a microscope. Thinline acoustics and that mic just don't get along at all at my place. Talk about thin and anemic.

The fact that these low cost Russian mics could step up to the plate w/ the Schoeps though, this says something.

Just saying all of this to let it be known that I DO like the work Michael did for me, and the service was excellent. It's just that particular clip sounds stifled, muffled...whatever to me in this case.

I level matched as best I could in my DAW, and it still sounds that way to me. Could it just be that one mic? Anyone else used the same mic that Michael modded, and this sample is not characteristic of theirs?

Just curious. I have been seeing that Tape Op ad for a while now. "HAVE THIS?....NEED THIS" I have been very curious as to what this would sound like at my place. However, if that clip is indicative of the sound of the 47 type capsule's sound w/ all mics, I would probably pass on this.

So, is that clip's sound close to what anyone else is getting with Michael's V67g mod? Or is it just an oddball anomaly?

I wouldn't mind hearing another clip from another source if anyone has one.

Thanks,
John
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27th January 2011
Old 27th January 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NEWTON IN ORBIT View Post
I wouldn't mind hearing another clip from another source if anyone has one.

Thanks,
John
There are clips all over the oktavamod.com website of mics with the k47 capsule.
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28th January 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NEWTON IN ORBIT View Post
....Just curious. I have been seeing that Tape Op ad for a while now. "HAVE THIS?....NEED THIS" I have been very curious as to what this would sound like at my place. However, if that clip is indicative of the sound of the 47 type capsule's sound w/ all mics, I would probably pass on this.

So, is that clip's sound close to what anyone else is getting with Michael's V67g mod? Or is it just an oddball anomaly?

I wouldn't mind hearing another clip from another source if anyone has one.

Thanks,
John
Here's a v67g modded by JJ Audio (stock capsule, upgraded transformer) and a Joly MJE-K47h head on a Joly-modded sdc body, recorded side by side in one pass.

Rode NT1a MOD - Anyone tried it?? (page 5 - post 140)
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