Multi Track VS DAW

[Loyct]

Which option would be better for my situation?


I'd be recording mostly vox and guitars (both acoustic and electric), and sometimes with the keyboard. However, i want to compose songs and i do not have a drumkit.
A multi track would obviously be cheaper and easier to record, but i really want drums, bass, and all them stuff. So, I turn to samples and VSTis.

I plan to go with the DAW, but on an entry level.

-New comp PC, not mac (2ghz, 2gig ram, 2X harddrive, onboard vid and sound)
-Sm57 (x1)
-AI (I was looking at the Emu1820M or the The Presonus Firebox which comes with Cubase LE apparently)
-No mic pres needed since i think the above 2 have them already.
-Monitors (Wharefedale DP82a or Behringer truth? --> heard its not good though)
-Weird cables of all sorts.

Will i need Battery for drums and Kontatk/Emulator X for the other instruments or will the ones in Cubase LE be sufficient?

Will I need a midi keyboard? I plan on exporting midi data from guitar pro and then just importing them and use the VSTi.


Keep in mind, just demo quality, or EP, nothing near professional, just want to get a taste of recording with proper equipments instead of Windows Sound Recorder.


Thanks.

[frugalpole]

for the money, the behringer truth monitors are not bad choices.

[Junkie]

I would go for the DAW personally (obviously its up to you), simply because it'll be easier to upgrade, expand and change. Mixing can be done In The Box, as many plug-ins and VST's can be installed as and when you want. You can combine software packages as well, rewire Cubase to Reason for example. I think your options will be much more open if you put together your own DAW. But a multitrack could be handy too, small and easy to take on location for live recordings etc (you could always go for a laptop DAW though).
Those behringers are pretty swish for the price, they got a reasonably flat frequency response and can pump out plenty of volume. Although they aren't a top end brand Behringer genuinely do half decent hardware at good prices (not all of it is cool though...).
Let us know what you go for!

[Loyct]

Yup. I'm thinking of going with the presonus firebox with Cubase and then getting Reason.

Do i need to buy extra plugins, or will those in the software itself be enough for me?

Cubase LE can be rewired to Reason right?

Originally Posted by Junkie

Let us know what you go for!

Currently

--New comp PC, not mac (2ghz, 2gig ram, 2X harddrive, onboard vid and sound)
-Sm57 (x1)
-AI (The Presonus Firebox which comes with Cubase LE)
-No mic pres needed since i think the above 2 have them already. (right? with the firebox)
-Monitors (Behringer truth?)
-Weird cables of all sorts.
-Reason.

Will Upgrade
-4 gig ram
-Condensor mic

Will this be correct and sufficient for what i want to do? And are all of those compatible?

[Junkie]

Im not sure what cubase LE (does LE stand for limited edition?) can and cant do as ive only used SX and that was 3-4 years ago. Try starting another thread in music computers about it. for the same reason im not sure how many plugins/VST's are included with the software although im sure you should get at least the basics: dynamics, basic effects etc. Again, start a thread asking the contents and possibilties with Cubase LE.

The computer looks pretty hardcore, good choice, try and get a good number of USB's and firewire ins and outs (they will come in handy when wanting to add hardware devices like MIDI controllers and other keyboards). After you become more into music production i might suggest looking at some soundcards and interfaces to maybe hook up to a small desk of some sort (the Mackie Onyx range provide half decent desks and include optional firewire soundcards to plug in straight into the computer meaning no interface is needed, look it up). Look after the computer and it should do you well for a few years (got alot of horsepower). The SM57 is a good reliable all round mic, will get a nice sound out of it. The behringer truths are a good buy too, looks like you're on your way already to a decent set up!!

Whats your budget? are those things you listed things what you already have or are looking at?

[Junkie]

Just so you know, REason is more of a sequencer (cant record audio) which is ideal for sampled bass lines, drums etc, Cubase will dael with all the Audio recording etc (in case you didnt know!!)

[Loyct]

Originally Posted by Junkie

Whats your budget? are those things you listed things what you already have or are looking at?

My budget is as much as the studio needs. I'm not rich, but i'm willing to sacrifice for what I love, and what is needed. (Ok, right now, my budget is at most S$2k, ard US$1k, but i will upgrade ASAP)


The comp so far seems like its gonna be S$1.5k (Est. US$950)

The firebox around S$500 (Est. US$300)

Cubase LE Free.

Reason S$800 (Est. US$500)

SM57 S$125 (never checked the US price, the shop here sells it at 125, but that converted = 79US)

Behringer Truth is around S$800 as well (Est. US$500)

Oh my..S$3725, that's around US$2330.

I never expected the price to be like that but..ouch..




I found something out though

Tascam - FW-1082, comes with Cubase SE and Gigastudio 3 SE

US$800 = S$1.2k.

Previous was Firebox + Cubase S$500 and with reason, 1.3k.

100$ Difference.

Is the Tascam similar to firebox, or something i'm not looking for?
Also, can i get the monitors later?
Do i need a midi keyboard?

[Junkie]

Couldnt say about the tascam or firebox, not used either. on the software side of things, try each out and see whats best for you, you may find a package which has everything in you need.

The MIDI controller is optional but has its benefits, all mixing can be done on this (the faders on the midi controller will also control the software controls) although a keyboard and mouse will do the same thing. a MIDI keyboard will allow you to play like a normal piano but have all the sounds triggered from the sampler within the software. but again, it isn't essential as you have control with the keyboard and mouse anyway, MIDI controllers are just more practical (i would just concentrate on the basic set up for now). just remember to include plenty of USB and firewire ports to your comp if you are thinking of this.

You will need some sort of speaker system (headphones at least) to hear your music, you can get away with hooking up to a HI FI but a good mix should be done on some monitors as well as listening through domestic speakers. if you buy a passive speaker set you will need a separate amp to power it, try and go for active speakers, the behr. truths do come active as well as passive.

Yeh it is an expensive hobby just to make a few tunes!!! but if you like playing with lots of knobs and buttons then it is ideal


look on ebay for alot of equipment (most of my stuff is secondhand), but obviously be careful, if you see something dont hesitate to put up a URL for us to peep at for you.

so I would aim for the following 'basic' components:

Computer for the recording and editing
Interface to get the analogue signal converted into a digital one for the comp.
Software
Microphone

I would recommend getting some monitors if you can afford it.

[Loyct]

So i'll get away with my comp speakers on my sony headphone? Or do i buy "monitor-esque" headhphones?

I can't do without reason or some sort of sampler. It would be useless to just record guitar without drums and bass.

Oh btw, do i programme note for note/standard notation in Reason? or can i import midi data from guitar pro to reason and just use the samples on that midi file?


Ok. So with my setup, does it work like this?

RECORDING
Open up cubase.
Connect AI via firewire
Connect mike SM57 to AI
Place mic at guitar cab
Press record on cubase
Play guitar
Layer as many tracks as you want (as Cubase LE allows)


SAMPLING
-Import ready-midi data (currently exported from guitar pro) to Reason
-Do the sampling stuff (haven't got the programme, so haven't read the manual)
-Save/Transport file to Cubase
-Add the drum and bass tracks from reason to cubase along with guitar tracks

FINAL
Mix and master (in cubase? does cubase do that? )

Does it work that way?

[Junkie]

You could just use what you have for now but obviously do look into a decent pair of monitors when you can, listen to a range, play a well known song through them and see what sounds 'the purest'. Depending on which kind of monitoring you are looking for, many engineers just go for at least one main pair which has a flat frequency repsonse from 20Hz too 20kHz. This means all frequencies are outputted at the same level; on domestic hi-fi's and headphones there is often 'colouration' (improved EQ settings) so that the listener enjoys the sound more. I have a pair of Mission Professional SM6A's for example (look them up and see the tech graphs so you know what you're looking for), not greatly expensive but has a flat frequency response. obviously there are pro monitors which do colour for a different kind of reference (Yamaha NS10's... you would have seen these in most pro studios).

Understand about the sequencing need, Im sure cubase has its own MIDI arrangement abilities, see what that can offer first and if you think you need to expand then go ahead with reason. Haven't used Reason for a few years but i think it just acts as a software sampler and sequencer, import any audio sample or sound into any of it's many devices and use MIDI to trigger it, you'll have to ask a more experienced Reason user for any indepth knowledge.

The basic setup is right, wot is the interface connection? The computer should detect it easily or you'll get a CD with the driver on it. In Cubase you'll have to configure the hardware so that it recognises it, should just be an options hardware menu where you can just select it. On the channel section of the software you 'arm' a track (there is a record button or R button on every channel, pressing this arms the track which means audio can now be recorded on that track. Make sure the Input on that armed channel is the same as the input of the interface that the microphone is plugged into, when you play the metering on that channel should go up and down representing a signal. then hitting record and play on the 'transport bar' (control panel with play, rewind, skip, stop etc) it should record. you should be able to hear your recorded sound (try using headphones straight out of the interface).

Concering MIDI files You should be able to save MIDI arrangements on any program by exporting as MIDI (rather than save as). this MIDI file should then be able to be read by any sequencer (Cubase, Logic, Reason etc) by Importing it.

Cubase should be an all-in-the-box music produciton program, meaning you can record, edit, mix and master Audio and MIDI in the same program. On the mixing side of things there is a window which has a layout much like a hardware mixing desk where you can alter the volume of different parts and add effects and dynamic processors to each track. there will be busses as well to group sections of the instruments and basic mastering should be easy enough

[krs]

If you're looking to write, I would say definitely have a 4 track to write on and a DAW to edit/mix on. Trying to write music on a DAW can be very distracting...

YMMV

[Loyct]

We have a problem.

Apparently, there's some complaints with the pres on the firebox have hisses and what not.

krs i believe you've seen the thread.

So..should i still get the firebox + sm57 (since its the most ideal for me, 2 mic pres, comes with cubase le)

Or will i need another AI?

MAudio firewire solo?
Firepod ? (but these come with similar pres i think)
Emu 1820M (2 pres, but no software with it, and is more expensive than the firebox)
MOTU traveler is too expensive for me right now.


I feel i should stick to the firebox though..

[I play in a ban]

Hey..if you wanna do drums and bass I would definetly recommend to go Sonar or Cubase.

For drums, to me this is a no-brainer. Look at FXPansion's BFD.

For bass I like to use Spectrasonic's Trilogy

Softsynths are the sh*t. There's other options out there, but after a lot of bad moves with software and hardware, I am content with my setup (software wise at least ).

I personally use Sonar 5 and like it a lot. Cubase is great too, and Protools LE is great....unless you're working with MIDI, and obviously Softsynths will require a lot of MIDI programming.


Hope this helped, good luck!

[Loyct]

So, the bfd can be a standalone..

Is the trilogy a standalone too?

I don't want to spend on 2 seperate softwares, but i'd still need brass, strings/piano and occasionally woodwinds and as many instruments as i can get my hands on.

Well, my perception of midi programming is using guitar pro to export midi, i'm familiar with GP functions already and i can just export the midi file to BFD or reason, etc, as long as they support general midi.

[I play in a ban]

Originally Posted by Loyct

So, the bfd can be a standalone..

Is the trilogy a standalone too?

I don't want to spend on 2 seperate softwares, but i'd still need brass, strings/piano and occasionally woodwinds and as many instruments as i can get my hands on.

Well, my perception of midi programming is using guitar pro to export midi, i'm familiar with GP functions already and i can just export the midi file to BFD or reason, etc, as long as they support general midi.

Hey, well they're not exactly stand alone programs; however, you can use rewire for BFD if you wanted.

And yes, you could definetly import the MIDI file into whatever sequencer you wind up using. As far as the other synths, I know Sonar comes with quite a few Softsynths that may cover your needs (haven't tried most of them yet...they could suck) and I'm not sure about Cubase.

What is your budget exactly? Sorry if you stated that earlier.

[Loyct]

As much as possible keeping it below S$2grand

that's about US1200

I'm planning to get the firebox (S$500) comes with Cubase LE

Then get kontakt or reason (not finalized, might get DFHS and trilogy) (S$800).

Sm57, (S$125)


Total, S$1425, about US$800.

That excl my new comp. I'd upgrade to condensors and monitors when i got the money.

[leftybass]

I enjoy writing music in my old version of Cakewalk but only once did I sing over it because of the hassle. I brought the track to a friend that had a standalone multitrack so I could sing over it. It was frustrating so I bought a Mac laptop and a firebox to record in Garageband and though Garageband is pretty easy the last thing I want to do after working an 8 hour day in front of a computer is to record on a laptop. Hooking up the firebox & wires & mic is a hassle. Yeah, I'm lazy. So my new plan is to get the Tascam DP-008. It's got knob for reverb and a knob for panning. GENIUS. I can just use the headphone jack on my puter to get my cakewalk stuff on there if I feel like it.

I have been helping a friend record most weekends on his Roland VS multi-track and it's great to never touch a traditional computer. The only obstacle is getting tight drums/percussion without Cakewalk :-) To actually play to a click without quantize is hard now. Anyone feel like this? Am I dfegad in the wind?

[Chrisc_o]

Originally Posted by leftybass

...I have been helping a friend record most weekends on his Roland VS multi-track and it's great to never touch a traditional computer. The only obstacle is getting tight drums/percussion without Cakewalk :-) To actually play to a click without quantize is hard now. Anyone feel like this? Am I dfegad in the wind?

I know what you mean, but I can splice together a tight drum track on my VS in no time, provided I'm working with a good drummer. As always, shit in shit out.