Recording and mixing screaming vocals

mattyd · 2nd January 2006

I'm gonna be recording a hardcore band within the next 3 months but I've never done this before. Can anyone give me some tips, especially regarding the screaming vocals part.
There are 2 vocalists (one melody, one screamo), 2 guitarists (both using pretty heavy distortions and a few phaser type effects), a bassist and a drummer.

How would you record the screamo vocals? I know he prefers holding the mic while screaming so I was thinking of the good ol' SM58. But what kind of compression ratio would you use, and stuff like that.
Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks!

aussie_techie · 2nd January 2006

DYNAMICS.
good old SM58 will work fine, if you dont have one id buy a beta58a, much nicer sounding and much stronger. DBX comps are nice, if you dont have one just use something as a screamer saver then compress itb
guitars, as always work with the guitar and the amp first, listen for the sweet spot and stick an sm57 or beta57 there
Sans amp all the way on bass and never trust a basist with their own tone

PhilR · 2nd January 2006

I'm gonna be recording something similar this week. Screamers are usually not so keen on standing up to a nice condensor (which is likely wasted on them anyway) so give them a decent dynamic, a pair of headphones, put them in a room and let them go nuts.

I'd also agree on the bassist comment (even though I'm a bassist myself). It's very easy to add a horrid sounding distortion, its impossible to remove it though. For the last band we recorded we DI'd the bass into the desk more or less raw and added overdrive later. The drums and bass were tracked at the same time so there was enough distorted bass bleeding into the overheads to fatten the sound up without losing all control of the bass tone.

mattyd · 2nd January 2006

Should I use quite a harsh compression ratio with a hard knee or what?

I tend to track everything seperately so I can get a lot more control. I also agree with the bassist comment.

I'd be recording digital so it could be so easy for the screaming vocals to just distort. I don't want that. So what kinda setup and settings should I use? If I wanted slight saturation then I'd use a tube preamp with a master volume. Might be a nice idea but, for now, let's just keep it straight.

Thanks for the comments so far.

mattyd · 2nd January 2006

Oh yes, one more thing. I'm more and more leaning towards the amp modeling world. I used to be a purist but I had to face reality at some time. The reality is, unless I work in a huge studio with lots of cash, I'll never be able to afford all the amps individually and the modellers (especially the Line 6) just sound pretty darn amazing!
Not gonna be a problem with this band though. They're pretty kitted out when it comes to gear.

maskedman72 · 2nd January 2006

screaming vocal mic? shure sm7b. but a 58 can work well also.

AlexLakis · 2nd January 2006

Dynamics are crucial here. SM-57, SM7, MD421, they'll all do great. Make sure they rock the mic without the pantyhose too. Let's em move around more. Also, just blast the PA and let them sing in the null without headphones! F*CK bleed if it helps the performance (there won't be much bleed at all if they don't move around much)!

As far as compression settings go, set him up and then dial in as much as you need. Use your ears. Some screamers will need more compression than others (screaming naturally creates compression coming out of your vocal chords anyways, so if he's not whispering in between lines, you shouldn't need much.) If you're using an analog desk going into the digital domain, a little meter in the red never hurt anybody going in for this kind of application. Some A/D convertors actually respond favorably to clipping in some instances as well. I've done it before, and I'll do it again.

You may even want to do two tracks for his vocals...one where he's screaming out, then one where he's screaming in his "head voice." (Or as I like to call, your "driving voice.") Smash the hell outta the second one and blend to taste.

derker · 2nd January 2006

Don't underestimate what a nice condenser can do for screaming vocals! I recorded my vocalist with a C800G -> 1084 -> 1176 (with high ratio) and it turned out great, sounded better than the Korby Kat for the screams. Theres something about the hi-fi-ness of the 800G that works real well with screams.

Almost Human · 3rd January 2006

The Shure SM7 is a good mic for screamo type vox, but if that's out of your budget...I've honestly heard some excellent results using an ADK A51 mic. They go new with shockmount for about $150 or so.

s-boogie · 3rd January 2006

what are your preamp possibilities for the sessions?
i wouldn´t squash it too much while tracking&recording..
stike have fun

mindglow · 3rd January 2006

I don't like recording screaming type vocals with dynamic mics. I always use some type of condenser, and the ADK A51 works really well, it does sound better on that type of vocals than many other more expensive mics.

davidl9999 · 6th January 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattyd

I was thinking of the good ol' SM58. But what kind of compression ratio would you use, and stuff like that.

Prolly a little late in the game on Jan 6th, but here's my 2c...

Gate (always), and compress at least 2:1. Use a soft knee to allow some dynamic range unless you're going to put him in compression the whole time. If he always screams, it doesn't matter - hard knee will be fine. Use a reasonably fast attack and slow release to help keep him compressed. I'm a big fan of dbx's 266 and 166 compressors.

If you need more dynamic range, you can back off on ratio, use a slower attack, faster release, etc.

Big thumbs up on the beta-58a - I feel that it adds a warmth to what is usually a harsh, distorted vocal signal from a screamer. A regular 58 or an SM7b is a fine choice as well. I'd keep any level-induced distortion to a minimum - you can always add it later, but its impossible to get rid of.

DI the bass if possible... (all whining aside, after hearing the mix, you just might get a well deserved thanks). One trick I used was to DI the bass to the mixer, and patched the DI to a second channel with the effects the bassist wanted to hear, then I put the DI to the mix and not the phones and the effected channel to the phones and not the mix. (won a pepsi off it too...)

gl with the session

-Dave

**George Necola** · 6th January 2006

depends strongly on the capabilties of the vocalist..

if he is aware of mouth- micdistances you dont need much compression/limiting..

I usually record deathmetal.. dynamics are not needed (really!!) in the voice.. I use 4:1 or higher using a RANE slx-52 comp.. works..

shure sm 58beta.. works better than 58.

Screws · 7th January 2006

I did a band with the same line up sans the melody singer. You can hear some cuts here:

http://www.empireontheweb.com/merch.htm

Scroll down to the cd sale area and click on the underlined titles.

Vocals - Rode NTK to Fatso in 1176 mode with transformer in path.

Guitars - each one recorded alone through two amps (Dual Rec for distortion and Marshall TSL for tone and slight crunchy edge) to separate 4x12 cabs, each cab with a 57 and condensor. Preamp is 1272 type (Seventh Circle Audio) for 57's and Twin Servo Jensen type for Condensors. 57's go from preamp to Fatso just for tape emulation and Transformer. Guitars also D.I.'d at same time so each guitar has 5 tracks to blend at mix time. I got this tip on hardcore guitar recording from Eric Rachel, producer/engineer/mixer of Every Time I Die.

Bass - tube DI to 1272 type preamp to Fatso in 1176 mode with Transformer in.

Drums - this would require an entire thread, trust me.

derekberg123 · 15th July 2009

Neumann KMS 105. It's a condenser so it can help really cut through the mix. Plus is it's a handheld so they can go crazy if they want. I've had success with this mic and so has As I Lay Dying (I know Tim Lambesis records with a Neumann KMS 105).

BOWIE · 15th July 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by derekberg123

Neumann KMS 105. It's a condenser so it can help really cut through the mix. Plus is it's a handheld so they can go crazy if they want. I've had success with this mic and so has As I Lay Dying (I know Tim Lambesis records with a Neumann KMS 105).

Good info.

After three and a half years, I think he may have made a decision by now though.

ohmicide · 15th July 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Screws

I did a band with the same line up sans the melody singer. You can hear some cuts here:

http://www.empireontheweb.com/merch.htm

Scroll down to the cd sale area and click on the underlined titles.

Vocals - Rode NTK to Fatso in 1176 mode with transformer in path.

Guitars - each one recorded alone through two amps (Dual Rec for distortion and Marshall TSL for tone and slight crunchy edge) to separate 4x12 cabs, each cab with a 57 and condensor. Preamp is 1272 type (Seventh Circle Audio) for 57's and Twin Servo Jensen type for Condensors. 57's go from preamp to Fatso just for tape emulation and Transformer. Guitars also D.I.'d at same time so each guitar has 5 tracks to blend at mix time. I got this tip on hardcore guitar recording from Eric Rachel, producer/engineer/mixer of Every Time I Die.

Bass - tube DI to 1272 type preamp to Fatso in 1176 mode with Transformer in.

Drums - this would require an entire thread, trust me.

oh come on tell us what you did with the drums :DDDD

btw your link isn't working

basket67 · 13th December 2009

Hi i'm a new user and also new to mixing screaming vocals and i want to know what's the best way to approach it.

s.d.finley · 13th December 2009

Use an SM58 and record in the control room so the vocalist will scream/sing loudly. My signal chain is 58>A-Designs EMS>Purple Action>Art Pro VLA> UA 2192>pthd. I have the vocalist about 5 feet from the monitors and bleed is minimal as long as they dont do a 180.
If I double track the vocals, I will switch mics. The 2nd mic is a Sennhieser e906 dynamic. I like to have the vocalist use hand helds mainly because they are use to it.

Black Seal · 13th December 2009

SM7->Telefunken V672

As with others here I prefer dynamic mics over condensors for this application.

ThunderShepherd · 14th December 2009

mikethedrummer · 14th December 2009

Maybe I missed mention of this earlier in the thread, but I find a parallel bus slammed with distortion can really bring out the balls in a screamer. (Especially if they aren't the best in the first place

)

ElJustin · 15th December 2009

Had success once on screamo vocals running a 421 into a vintech x81. I think dynamics would def be the way to go.

lefthandRED · 25th May 2011

Just recently used a Rode NT1 (not the new ones) > Toft ATB > ART Tube comp (ridiculously slammed, i'm talkin like 8:1)

some may say that recording with 10+dB of compression is madness, but it really got the singer going to hear such immediacy in his takes.

saying that i'll probably do it totally different next time, for chuckles.

P.S was really digging a send from the vox into a overdrive pedal emulator, sitting in the background in the mix.

2nd January 2006	#1
mattyd Gear Head Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: South Africa Posts: 67 Thread Starter	Recording and mixing screaming vocals I'm gonna be recording a hardcore band within the next 3 months but I've never done this before. Can anyone give me some tips, especially regarding the screaming vocals part. There are 2 vocalists (one melody, one screamo), 2 guitarists (both using pretty heavy distortions and a few phaser type effects), a bassist and a drummer. How would you record the screamo vocals? I know he prefers holding the mic while screaming so I was thinking of the good ol' SM58. But what kind of compression ratio would you use, and stuff like that. Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

3rd January 2006	#10
s-boogie Gear maniac Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: germany Posts: 195	what are your preamp possibilities for the sessions? i wouldn´t squash it too much while tracking&recording.. stike have fun __________________ _______________________________________ "...work through a room's gear — I'd sit there with the gear for hours. I think that helped me become a mixer, and to be able to come up with things that were creative and new." -maserati thumbsup _______________________________________ http://www.myspace.com/sashliq

7th January 2006	#14
Screws Lives for gear Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 716	I did a band with the same line up sans the melody singer. You can hear some cuts here: http://www.empireontheweb.com/merch.htm Scroll down to the cd sale area and click on the underlined titles. Vocals - Rode NTK to Fatso in 1176 mode with transformer in path. Guitars - each one recorded alone through two amps (Dual Rec for distortion and Marshall TSL for tone and slight crunchy edge) to separate 4x12 cabs, each cab with a 57 and condensor. Preamp is 1272 type (Seventh Circle Audio) for 57's and Twin Servo Jensen type for Condensors. 57's go from preamp to Fatso just for tape emulation and Transformer. Guitars also D.I.'d at same time so each guitar has 5 tracks to blend at mix time. I got this tip on hardcore guitar recording from Eric Rachel, producer/engineer/mixer of Every Time I Die. Bass - tube DI to 1272 type preamp to Fatso in 1176 mode with Transformer in. Drums - this would require an entire thread, trust me. __________________ Steve Cruz Cruzified Music Florida

15th July 2009	#15
derekberg123 Gear interested Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 3	Neumann Neumann KMS 105. It's a condenser so it can help really cut through the mix. Plus is it's a handheld so they can go crazy if they want. I've had success with this mic and so has As I Lay Dying (I know Tim Lambesis records with a Neumann KMS 105).

13th December 2009	#19
s.d.finley Lives for gear Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 3,562	Use an SM58 and record in the control room so the vocalist will scream/sing loudly. My signal chain is 58>A-Designs EMS>Purple Action>Art Pro VLA> UA 2192>pthd. I have the vocalist about 5 feet from the monitors and bleed is minimal as long as they dont do a 180. If I double track the vocals, I will switch mics. The 2nd mic is a Sennhieser e906 dynamic. I like to have the vocalist use hand helds mainly because they are use to it. __________________ sdf www.digitalwarehausproductions.com

2nd January 2006	#2
aussie_techie Lives for gear Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Perth, Australia Posts: 2,709	DYNAMICS. good old SM58 will work fine, if you dont have one id buy a beta58a, much nicer sounding and much stronger. DBX comps are nice, if you dont have one just use something as a screamer saver then compress itb guitars, as always work with the guitar and the amp first, listen for the sweet spot and stick an sm57 or beta57 there Sans amp all the way on bass and never trust a basist with their own tone

2nd January 2006	#3
PhilR Lives for gear Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Nottingham, UK Posts: 631	I'm gonna be recording something similar this week. Screamers are usually not so keen on standing up to a nice condensor (which is likely wasted on them anyway) so give them a decent dynamic, a pair of headphones, put them in a room and let them go nuts. I'd also agree on the bassist comment (even though I'm a bassist myself). It's very easy to add a horrid sounding distortion, its impossible to remove it though. For the last band we recorded we DI'd the bass into the desk more or less raw and added overdrive later. The drums and bass were tracked at the same time so there was enough distorted bass bleeding into the overheads to fatten the sound up without losing all control of the bass tone.

2nd January 2006	#6
maskedman72 Lives for gear Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: michigan Posts: 1,425	screaming vocal mic? shure sm7b. but a 58 can work well also.

2nd January 2006	#7
AlexLakis Lives for gear Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Annapolis, MD/L.A. Posts: 3,631	Dynamics are crucial here. SM-57, SM7, MD421, they'll all do great. Make sure they rock the mic without the pantyhose too. Let's em move around more. Also, just blast the PA and let them sing in the null without headphones! F*CK bleed if it helps the performance (there won't be much bleed at all if they don't move around much)! As far as compression settings go, set him up and then dial in as much as you need. Use your ears. Some screamers will need more compression than others (screaming naturally creates compression coming out of your vocal chords anyways, so if he's not whispering in between lines, you shouldn't need much.) If you're using an analog desk going into the digital domain, a little meter in the red never hurt anybody going in for this kind of application. Some A/D convertors actually respond favorably to clipping in some instances as well. I've done it before, and I'll do it again. You may even want to do two tracks for his vocals...one where he's screaming out, then one where he's screaming in his "head voice." (Or as I like to call, your "driving voice.") Smash the hell outta the second one and blend to taste.

2nd January 2006	#8
derker Gear maniac Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 224	Don't underestimate what a nice condenser can do for screaming vocals! I recorded my vocalist with a C800G -> 1084 -> 1176 (with high ratio) and it turned out great, sounded better than the Korby Kat for the screams. Theres something about the hi-fi-ness of the 800G that works real well with screams.

3rd January 2006	#9
Almost Human Gear addict Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Germantown, MD Posts: 408	The Shure SM7 is a good mic for screamo type vox, but if that's out of your budget...I've honestly heard some excellent results using an ADK A51 mic. They go new with shockmount for about $150 or so.

3rd January 2006	#11
mindglow Gear Head Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 58	I don't like recording screaming type vocals with dynamic mics. I always use some type of condenser, and the ADK A51 works really well, it does sound better on that type of vocals than many other more expensive mics.

13th December 2009	#18
basket67 Gear interested Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 1	Hi i'm a new user and also new to mixing screaming vocals and i want to know what's the best way to approach it.

13th December 2009	#20
Black Seal Lives for gear Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 534	SM7->Telefunken V672 As with others here I prefer dynamic mics over condensors for this application. __________________ www.snapjoint.com

14th December 2009	#21
ThunderShepherd Gear addict Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 347	PR40

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14th December 2009	#22
mikethedrummer Lives for gear Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,077 1 Review written	Maybe I missed mention of this earlier in the thread, but I find a parallel bus slammed with distortion can really bring out the balls in a screamer. (Especially if they aren't the best in the first place )

15th December 2009	#23
ElJustin Gear Head Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston Posts: 56	Had success once on screamo vocals running a 421 into a vintech x81. I think dynamics would def be the way to go.

25th May 2011	#24
lefthandRED Gear interested Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 13	Just recently used a Rode NT1 (not the new ones) > Toft ATB > ART Tube comp (ridiculously slammed, i'm talkin like 8:1) some may say that recording with 10+dB of compression is madness, but it really got the singer going to hear such immediacy in his takes. saying that i'll probably do it totally different next time, for chuckles. P.S was really digging a send from the vox into a overdrive pedal emulator, sitting in the background in the mix. __________________ “I’ll let you be in my dreams if I can be in yours”