SM7b and pre-amps

[doorknocker]

Originally Posted by Babydoctor

Thanks guys, I really appreciate the input from all of you and it looks like I'm pretty close on deciding to get the SM7b. I just wish it worked well on acoustic guitars, too. Thus is life.

Originally Posted by Babydoctor

That being said, anyone have any final recommendations for a good vocal mic that works well on acoustic guitars, too (or any acoustic instrument, for that matter)?

I have a recommendation: The SM7b!

What makes you think that it doesn't work on acoustic guitars?

[Svenarne]

[QUOTE=Babydoctor;5844550]
anyone have any final recommendations for a good vocal mic that works well on acoustic guitars, too (or any acoustic instrument, for that matter)? Right now, for acoustics, I use either my friend's SM57 or my Rode NT5 and they're not bad, but if I can get a good vocal mic that is also pretty decent on acoustics, why not?
/QUOTE]

The MXL V67G has to be the most quoted low-end condenser around here. It costs about $100 depending on where you live and will complement your SM7 well. You might even find yourself using it more for vocals than the SM7, depending on vocal style and what your room sounds like.

Sven

[doncaparker]

I honestly think that it is less expensive and better sounding to buy separate mics for voice and acoustic guitar. Get the Shure SM7b for voice, get an Oktava MK-012 for the acoustic guitar. You are still spending less than $500 for the pair.

In order to get one mic that will sound great on both voice and acoustic guitar, you probably have to go for a good quality large diaphragm condenser. You will probably spend more than $500 on such a mic. Getting good quality LDCs costs more than good quality dynamics and SDCs.

Also, consider the fact that LDCs pick up every weird sound that is going on in your room. They are super sensitive that way. If your room is not the best, you are better off with the dynamic on voice and SDC on guitar.

Just my opinion.

[Jens Siefert]

Hi there,

I'm with Doorknocker,

Buy that dam* SM 7 B..and be happy!

We have a Gefell M 930, a AKG 414 Buls, a AT4050, a Senn 441, several 421, Royer 121, Coles 4038, Beyer 201, 57, 58 and several other Mics in our little studio and more often than not the SM7B wins for Lead Vocals and Hihat :-) Its good on E-Guitars and Kick, too. It won't suck on acoustic (Though Gefell M 300, Royer, Coles, Schöps are preferred here..)

60db of Gain is enough, imho..you'll upgrade Pres and a HW Comp anyway if you're getting serious, but you'll never regret having that SM7. I'm a fan, really!!

Ok ok , I'm not considering myself a pro (yet), but I'm constantly comparing the available Mics and Pre Combinations (API 7600, FR ISA 423, 9098, Acousta P100, .. and what I hear is that the SM7 is a great Mic!

Cheers,
Jens

[Stitch333]

I set up a SM7->1290->la2a a couple months ago and haven't bothered changing it for numerous clients cause it sounds great.
Muy sculptable in the mids.

[chessparov]

IMHO handheld microphones would be a better way to go.

You could get one of the following that are all in the same ballpark (gasp) as the "holy" SM7;

1) Beyer M88
2) Beyer Soundstar M400 series
3) Electro-Voice RE16 (or RE15)
4) Shure SM58 (or 57) modded at Mercenary Audio - Professional Audio Recording Equipment and Advice with TAB transformer
5) Electro-Voice 635a (good on acoustic guitar too BTW)

All these can do double duty as fine vocal mics for studio AND live performance. (You need a VERY controlled live situation for the 635a though). My personal inclination would be getting both the 635a, along with one of the other four microphones-particularly the M88.


I still believe that if someone want to do some serious release level recordings, non-pro's are better off going to a good pro recording studio...

Chris

[SoundWeavers]

Originally Posted by Babydoctor

Thanks guys, I really appreciate the input from all of you and it looks like I'm pretty close on deciding to get the SM7b. I just wish it worked well on acoustic guitars, too. Thus is life.

It will work on acoustic guitar also, it has a very good high end response. Just take note of mic positioning and there is no reason you can't get very good acoustic guitar recording.

[Wildebass]

Originally Posted by chessparov

I still believe that if someone want to do some serious release level recordings, non-pro's are better off going to a good pro recording studio...

Chris

Could very well be true.

But I also think that any musician that is serious about his or her musical career, NEEDS to have a home studio.

Once they spend enough time there and get the necessary practice in, there is no reason why they couldn't produce release level material.

[Chrisc_o]

Originally Posted by Wildebass

Could very well be true.

But I also think that any musician that is serious about his or her musical career, NEEDS to have a home studio.

Once they spend enough time there and get the necessary practice in, there is no reason why they couldn't produce release level material.

The idea is good, but as with anything else there is a certain amount of talent involved in recording music, just as there is with playing an instrument. Some people just don't get certain concepts or have difficulty applying them.

I'm a horrible violinist but I really wish I could play when I need to put down some realistic string pads. What do i do? Call in someone who can do it for me (and pay for the service).

[Wildebass]

Originally Posted by Chrisc_o

The idea is good, but as with anything else there is a certain amount of talent involved in recording music, just as there is with playing an instrument. Some people just don't get certain concepts or have difficulty applying them.

I'm a horrible violinist but I really wish I could play when I need to put down some realistic string pads. What do i do? Call in someone who can do it for me (and pay for the service).

No argument there, but then again, that wasn't the point I was trying to make.

$2000 spent on setting up a home studio will pay huge dividends in the long run for an independent musician rather than spending the same $2000 for a one time recording at a pro studio.

It's just incredibly beneficial to any serious musician to have a home studio to eliminate time contraints when working out your ideas.

Especially with the current nature of the music business, if your tracks (and buzz) are good enough, the label will pay for them be re-recorded at a pro studio.

And of course, like any craft really, practice makes perfect.

[Babydoctor]

Yeah, the reason I started a home studio a few years back was so that I didn't have to keep pushing out cash to buy studio time and so I can work any day, any time, on my time. I also think its very important to learn how to use the studio as an instrument, especially if you're doing something more on the electronic or experimental side.

Here are some tracks from an album I released in 2009 so you can hear the quality of stuff I was pushing a year ago: Deadhead Roses on MySpace Music - Free Streaming MP3s, Pictures & Music Videos. Vocals were all done with a SM58, Firepod, and some EQing in Cubase (and often a little chorus, depending on how it fits with the song). Guitars just had a SM57 and Rode NT5 and the bass was a direct line into the Firepod.

[Svenarne]

Originally Posted by RonT

Great Mic----Cheap Pre-------=WTF?
Great Pre-----Cheap Mic------=Workable
Great Mic-----Great Pre--------=HellYeah!thumbsup

I dunno...

Years ago when my country band and I recorded our first self-produced album, we knew we needed a good mic, but we didn't know shit about preamps. So we borrowed a 90s U87 and plugged it into the Mbox (original version).

Listening back on that album, it still is the best vocal sound I've gotten outside a "real" studio. Maybe it was the mic, maybe we were lucky with the high-ceiling room we recorded in, but if I were to post a song, I'm pretty sure nobody here would fault the choice of preamp for the quality of the production. And the whole record actually doesn't sound half bad!

Sven

[ampwax]

I run the SM7b through a vintech 273, and at first I thought it was broken upon arrival. Need a great deal more gain than my previous dynamic mics in the old locker. You will want a pre that can gain up sufficiently, without hiss or hum, so its got to be clean. That is the real defining point of a pre that is going to accept signal from the SM7b. I am looking at trying a great river or something similar upon next preamp purchase.

On the other hand, you could get into the habit like I have done, and track more conservatively. Then, if all your peaks hit -18 on the meter, you don't have to worry about it, plus, you get way more headroom on your mix at the end. My two cents.

[chessparov]

FWIW I gathered a certain amount of home recording stuff, including microphones, primarily to make practicing singing more interesting.

IMHO though believe that it's best for singers and/or instrumentalists to have much LIVE experience to better hone their craft. Compared to spending the majority of their time alone if they're looking to make at least a part time income from music.

Unfortunately, to to the dearth of live music opportunities, that seems more challenging now-to say the least.

Chris

[Stitch333]

Originally Posted by ampwax

I run the SM7b through a vintech 273, and at first I thought it was broken upon arrival. Need a great deal more gain than my previous dynamic mics in the old locker. You will want a pre that can gain up sufficiently, without hiss or hum, so its got to be clean. That is the real defining point of a pre that is going to accept signal from the SM7b. I am looking at trying a great river or something similar upon next preamp purchase.

On the other hand, you could get into the habit like I have done, and track more conservatively. Then, if all your peaks hit -18 on the meter, you don't have to worry about it, plus, you get way more headroom on your mix at the end. My two cents.

A second gain stage in chain, like that in the makeup amp of a compressor, can usually get an SM7 plenty-o-gain to spare...

[mowmow]

I only used Millennia STT1 with SM7B for voiceover and it sounds nice on both Tube and SS mode.

About the gain, STT1 has +40 gain on Tube and +50 gain on Solid state preamp section, and +-10 db gain at the output section. I have +10 db gain mod (which is only on SS mode) version from Millennia but SM7B works fine with tube mode (only +40db gain). I crank the tube preamp to max and output level to about +5 and I have enough levels. It remains very quiet, no noticeable noise. As a matter of fact, this mic is quieter (lower noise floor) than any condenser mics I have. Although this is because SM7B won't pick up environment noise like condensers, it still remains noise less when you crank the preamp up.

Because STT1 has many variations like tube, solid state, transformer which is switchable, it is like buying 2-3 preamps at once. Plus you have an option to change the tube (like telefunken) to change even more. I think it is great preamp to have.

[Mike Douaire]

Just do it.

Get the SM7b.

Record music.

Tell us how much you like it after recording a few songs.

[refugee1]

Originally Posted by Babydoctor

Thanks guys, I really appreciate the input from all of you and it looks like I'm pretty close on deciding to get the SM7b. I just wish it worked well on acoustic guitars, too. Thus is life.

Who says it doesn't work on acoustic guitar? It's now my go to on most acoustics. Absolutely love the crisp crunch it gives me.

[Mertmo]

agreed, it's great on acoustic

[mowmow]

Does it really ?
Most dynamic mics are less sensitive than condensers and will not pick up small details which I think it is crucial for recording ac guitar IMHO.
I tried 57 and sounded like a different guitar in the wrong way. It did not capture the sound real enough to my ears. Although you could say it's a different style.

[refugee1]

Been doing this a long time. Used about every mic level there is from $20 radioshack to an $8000 sony, and I'm here to say that the SM7b is literally my go to mic on acoustic guitars. But that's me. 100 other engineers are going to have about 99 other opinions on it. Personally, I LOVE the smooth yet punchy detail that i get out of it.

Detail is not necessarily a dynamic vs. condenser thing. It has as much to do with mic design and pickup pattern. And, in the end, what kind of detail are you looking for? The "detail" of an SM7 is something that I have fallen in love with and that works for me time and time again.

[doncaparker]

Originally Posted by refugee1

Detail is not necessarily a dynamic vs. condenser thing. It has as much to do with mic design and pickup pattern. And, in the end, what kind of detail are you looking for? The "detail" of an SM7 is something that I have fallen in love with and that works for me time and time again.

Transient response is another thing that varies, with dynamics being slower than condensers, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.

I generally prefer condensers on acoustic guitar, but one way that I've used the SM7b on acoustic and liked the results is to get it right up close on the soundhole, send it through a preamp with a lot of clean gain (AEA TRP), engage a high pass filter to deal with proximity effect, and then not be shy about tweaking the EQ later, usually adding some highs and cutting the low mids just a bit. I get a nice, strong signal, almost no room noise, and it sounds pretty good. It's a dry signal, but I can add some fake room later.

Again, I would rather get there with condensers, and I like some real room. Backing the SM7b off the guitar to get more room doesn't seem to work well for me; whether it is voice or instruments, I feel like this mic needs to be right up on the source, or it just doesn't have any oomph.

[refugee1]

Originally Posted by doncaparker

Transient response is another thing that varies, with dynamics being slower than condensers, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.

Yep. Transient response is a big part of what detail is emphasized.

Backing the SM7b off the guitar to get more room doesn't seem to work well for me; whether it is voice or instruments, I feel like this mic needs to be right up on the source, or it just doesn't have any oomph.

I have two rooms--a live room, which is wonderful for percussion and cranked amps, and then a control room. In the live room I have to put it right up to the strings somewhere between the 12th fret and where the neck and body meet because that room is just not designed for this kind of instrument--too boxy. The SM7 does a descent job of isolating out the boxiness. In the control room I put it about 10 inches away and get a beautiful sound. I use the control room whenever possible for acoustics, violins, vocals, etc. My computer is in another room completely so I'm dead silent in the control room.

[RARStudios]

I use an Sm7b on a Apogee Ensemble...it mades me sound like fergie and jesus.

Its a versatile mic. You can use it on vocals, guitar cabs, acoustic guitar, bass...I mean...the thing is just like the sm57 but in my opinion sounds better. It requires a bit more gain though. You really need to push it!

[goodwill314]

Originally Posted by Babydoctor

That being said, anyone have any final recommendations for a good vocal mic that works well on acoustic guitars, too (or any acoustic instrument, for that matter)? Right now, for acoustics, I use either my friend's SM57 or my Rode NT5 and they're not bad, but if I can get a good vocal mic that is also pretty decent on acoustics, why not?

check out the Studio Projects B1... for around $100 sounds great on vocals and acoustics... actually on everything. this was my first mic purchase a few years ago, and in addition to vocals and acoustic guitars, i've used it on amps (sounds great) and in front of a kick drum. can't go wrong...