New to Home Recording. Need help. Lots of help. Extreme Details Inside.

[Loyct]

I'm new to home recording.

Introduction
Alright, i wanna do serious recordings, but i don't have drums and rare acess to bass..all i have are vocals guitars and a cheap yamaha keyboard.

Currently...
Right now i have a crappy soundcard, comp speakers for my monitors, and the 5$ comp mike. Guitar pro for everything else (synths, drums ,bass) except guitars and vox. Audacity for the rest. I still need to record the drum/bass tracks from Guitar Pro and it sounds bad. The Crashes are 1000000X too trebly, etc. Plus my mic captures background noise unlike any other. Just pure 1000 pounds of static.

I want...
I want to achieve as good quality as possible, with good volume control and as professional as it can get. 1st major project would be my Demo or EP. Also if needed, other songs. Presentable and sellable/CD-able.

The Plan
So far here's what i got in my mind to build my own "studio" (? = advice needed)

1)New comp

(high speed, good soundcard, extra USB ports. What specs are good?)
So far..

INTEL PENTIUM 4 H&T 2 or 3.2ghz
DDR 2 1 gig ram x2? [2 gig of ram]
M audio delta 44 or Soundblaster Audigy.
Do i need a good graphics card for this?
2X 80gig harddisk. [160 gig HD]

What else would I need? What do you think of this computer?


2)Recording Software
(not sure? is mixing/mastering included in this?)

Cubase SX3, or should i get Adobe Audition? What about Logic?


3)Drum Software
(Reason? With drumkit from hell?)

I need a very, very good drum programme, cause i won't have accesss to drums.


4)Other instrument software

(if trumpets are needed etc. I'm currently using guitar pro, IMPORTANT - bass.)

Also, i might programme bass or something. I won't go hire some symphony band just for one power metal track. I'd programme it instead.

5)Studio monitors
(are 2 enough?)

Behringer Truth?
Mackie hr824 or Dynaudio BM5A ?


6)Mixer

I know i don't need one cause i don't have drums. But i might record say 2 guitars, 2 vox and a bass track, so will i need one in this case?

7)Mics.

(Would be recording vox, guitar (acoustic and electric) and on rare cases bass. Do i need 3 seperate mics for that?)

Shure SM57 dynamic for sure. How many of these do i need?
Also what kind of mic do i need for bass?
And what condensor mic for the acoustic and vox? How many do i need?

Expected Results
Also i'd like to layer as many tracks as possible. So far my songs are around 9 tracks, but i expect some to go up to 20. I know audacity can layer that much..but advice needed as well.

Apart from all these i've stated, is there anything i've left out?

Closing Words
I'd be mainly recording vox and guitar, mostly programming bass, drums and other needed instruments. Worst case, i'd use the patch on my keyboard.

PLEASE help, and keep in mind i'm not Bill Gate's son, i do have my financial limitations. Don't go above 10k, but don't give me 10cent mikes and 10$ mixers.

Thanks for all the help, its pretty urgent.

Also, i wanna know:

Windows or Mac?
Desktop or Laptop?

Edit
Oh yeah. I record rock/metal. Sometimes acoustic.

[natpub]

1) Dont worry about a vid card, in fact a "weaker" vid card is preferable--look at the Matrox cards. The more RAM the better. Don't use an Audigy type card. The MAudio isnt horrible, but you can do better. Check out the threads on the Yamaha i88x. I seem to recall lots of folks like them. Also, be sure you set up one HD to run your O/S and DAW program, and one for your audio files themselves.

2) Yes to Cubase/Nuendo, no to everything else mentioned. He-he. Seriously, Logic is fine, but I personally don't like it for my workflow. I do also like and use Sonar, mainly to run my GIGA comps.

3) DFHS or Vintage, BFD, all those are good. Also, lots of nice loops discs out there, can make some very good, quick drum tracks.

4) For anything symphonic, read up on GIGA. GIGA is amazing for bass also. So, yeah, GIGA. BTW, building a sample library is expensive :-) Bear in mind, getting into GIGA can lead to needing a 2nd or more computer for many users. Something cheaper and more user friendly is the new VSL Personal Orchestra. It sounds OK I guess. Kontakt is also a good program.

5) No Behringer. The others you mention are fine. 2 monitors is what you need. I'd also look at the Event ASP 8's, quite good.

6) You should be fine without a mixer for now, assuming you get a proper Interface such as the Yamaha mentioned above.

7) The 57 is great for elec gtrs. For Acust.Gtr, check out the Oktava M012's. They are also nice overheads. For vocal, a Large Diaphram Condenser such as the Marshall MXL69 or whatever, or the Peluso's, or the Studio Projects C series, or whatever---tons of theads on that here. Another option is a dynamic like a Shure SM7. Depends on your voice.

8) Windows or Mac are both fine. I prefer Windows for now, and it can keep the expense down if you self build. I would tend to go with a desktop unless you really really need to be mobile for some specific reason.

9) Read up and spend time thinking how to properly condition your room for recording and mixing. Otherwise, you may end up making very accurate recordings of a very crappy room, then mixing in the opposite direction of everything you want to hear. This is a place to really invest some money if you can.


Good luck,

The first thing to do is spend a lot of time reading here all over this forum, wait, learn, ask short, simple questions, listen, learn, read more, be humble, listen more, learn more, etc. There are also several other very good forums to study. Carefully research and TEST before you buy, or else you may be very sad having spent yer wad and not get the results you had hoped for. Keep in mind the most important things to getting good results are attached to each side of your head, and hopefully what resides between them :-)



K.

[Loyct]

Thanks man. Yeah, i do alot of reading before anything else..


1) Dont worry about a vid card, in fact a "weaker" vid card is preferable--look at the Matrox cards. The more RAM the better. Don't use an Audigy type card. The MAudio isnt horrible, but you can do better. Check out the threads on the Yamaha i88x. I seem to recall lots of folks like them. Also, be sure you set up one HD to run your O/S and DAW program, and one for your audio files themselves.

-What's DAW? Also, is the Yamaha i88x a soundcard?. How much RAM do i need on my vid card?

2) Yes to Cubase/Nuendo, no to everything else mentioned. He-he. Seriously, Logic is fine, but I personally don't like it for my workflow. I do also like and use Sonar, mainly to run my GIGA comps.

-What's GIGA?


3) DFHS or Vintage, BFD, all those are good. Also, lots of nice loops discs out there, can make some very good, quick drum tracks.

-What are those 2? Are they drum machines?

4) For anything symphonic, read up on GIGA. GIGA is amazing for bass also. So, yeah, GIGA. BTW, building a sample library is expensive :-) Bear in mind, getting into GIGA can lead to needing a 2nd or more computer for many users. Something cheaper and more user friendly is the new VSL Personal Orchestra. It sounds OK I guess. Kontakt is also a good program.

-Are all those you listed programmes?

Alright..the next step for me is a new comp or mic..i won't buy all those at one go. Are the specs i listed ok? What soundcard do i need?

As for mics..I'm def getting the SM57, how would I want to record? Plug the mic in the mic in on my current comp?

[joeq]

8) at least two channels of high quality mic preamps

[Almost Human]

I use Adobe Audition 1.5 and like it just fine. To me, it's as good as any of the others out there, it's very user-friendly, and 1.5 supports VST and has a host of stuff the old versions didn't have. Plus, if you're a student (or know a student who will help you), you can buy a copy of Adobe Audition 1.5 for only $129 at http://www.campustech.com instead of $300 like most places sell it. Put that up against the $500 - $700 version of Sonar/Cubase, and you've got a bargain. I thought I would start with it since I was on a budget and get something "better" later, but I'm perfectly happy with it and have no desire to switch now.

[natpub]

Originally Posted by Loyct

...Yeah, i do alot of reading before anything else...What's DAW?

Well, you must not be doing very much reading, lol. If you don't know this one, go back to square 1 (I'm just kiddin around)

1) DAW - Digital Audio Workstation, meaning----> your computer + the recording/editing software of your choice=your DAW! As far as a sound card, them Yamaha is Firewire, so your computer must have a firewire input on the Motherboard, or you will need to put in a Firewire PCI card:

http://www.musiciansbuy.com/YAMAHA_I...CE_W_FREE.html

In any case, you dont need a sound card, your interface IS your new soundcard. I personally would avoid putting in any kind of gaming or consumer soundblaster type card. The potential conflict between drivers is a massive pain in the ass to me, but some people dont care and some never have any problems with it. I hate them, and find them useless. I will listen to music through my interface, thanks. (By the way, you will need some headphones if you plan on overdubbing and dont want bleed from your prior tracks).

Another thing about DAW's: I wish people would say DAW means DEDICATED Audio Workstation, because the main difference between a DAW and your home computer with some recording software is that a DAW is dedicated. It is not connected to the Internet, it does not have anything on it but absolutely necessary programs, not games, nada (i.e. we do not play Everquest or WOW on our DAW!! he-he). I only update drivers by burning them on my Internet computer, then putting them by hand onto my DAW. Keep your DAW pure, unless you like loosing all your hard work to some kind of crap virus, or digging for a lost file among a bunch of crap programs. Also, a DAW should have an optimized O/S. A good site for optimizing Win XP is:


http://www.musicxp.net/tuning_tips.php

On your DAW you should also get some kind of backup system. I use a simple external Firewire drive, and always back up all your work on a regular basis. That way if one of your harddrives takes a nosedive, you haven't lost months of work.

Originally Posted by Loyct

What is GIGA?

2) GIGA - A Hard Drive streaming based sampler program that rulz :-) Google it, and do a search here. Between them you can find plenty to read. From what I sense reading your current situation, I recommend Vienna Symphonic Library (VSL) Personal Orchestra program instead, if you MUST have orchestral sounds. If all you need is a bass sample, look at Kontakt and find a cheap library of decent bass sounds.

Originally Posted by Loyct

Are those [DFHS, BFD] drum machines?

3) No. Google them and do a search here. They are sample collections that include sampler applications allowing them to function on your computer like a plug in or VST instrument. BFD is probably simpler to use. Both are, imo, superior in sound and application to drum machines of any sort. Loops may be better in some situations, particularly something involving lots of rolls or specialized techniques like brushes.


I am sure the preamps on the Yamaha would be fine for now. Don't be lead off into spending lots of cash at this point. Other good interfaces are Presonus Firepod, RME Fireface, Mackie 400(?), etc., but those get more expensive. If you really must have a PCI solution, the only fairly cheap one I know are the Delta series you mentioned, though they do not have preamps as I recall. Anything above that begins to involve external dedicated converters, which are superior for sure, but get quite expensive--and yes, then you would need an interface PCI card, such as the Lynx AES 16. Just keep in mind that complete solution interfaces like the Yamaha will already have Soundblaster type drivers, as well as WDM, GIGA 2, etc.

4) As far as a video card, just any old Nvidea 32mb card will be fine, I would not spend over 30 bucks, UNLESS you are planning to work on video applications or film, etc. which usually use QuickTime for playback. Here are a couple commonly used vid cards for DAWS. The Matrox is very common in high end DAWS:

http://3btech.net/chnvgemx32dd.html

http://www.pcprogress.com/product.as...MATG450DU16DDR


I am not a computer head, so I dont fully understand it all, but the reasoning behind using a less powerful vid card is that you do not need all that 3D Acceleration and Pixle Shading power, so all it ends up being is a drain on your system, taking up activity that could otherwise go towards audio processing, shrug, but that is an oversimplification of what I read.

************************************************
Anyway, to answer your last question, once you have a computer, interface, and mic, you plug the mic into the mic preamp of the interface to begin...then read your software manual and follow the yellow-brick road :-)

[moon_unit]

I like the recommendations, but do you really want to send this guy down the whole i88x path as a rookie?

The guy doesn't even know what a DAW is, and you want him to fiddle around with MLan? Not even if he was my worst enemy. Seriously, Loyct, I'd have a look at some of the Echo and/or M-Audio interfaces for now. Much easier for a beginner to navigate and get up and running. Echo, in particular, has outstanding support if you should need it. A lot of people seem to like the Presonus as well (haven't heard of many people who have problems with it). The Presonus and Echo's also come bundled with a multi-tracking program called Traktion, which looks to be about as complicated as sneezing.
.

[natpub]

Originally Posted by moon_unit

I like the recommendations, but do you really want to send this guy down the whole i88x path as a rookie?
.

I thought the mLan option was just Firewire? If you have more experience with that, cool, cuz I dont have any with the Yammy. I just saw tons of posters here loving it for the price---meaning under 400 bucks. Been a while since I have been in the market for something of this type, Loyct, so you are probably better off with other's suggestions on which exact interface to go with.

Moon, the Presonus entry stuff comes with Cubase LE, I think. Their sub-$400 units do not have MIDI.

This Gine seems cool, and does have the Traktion:

http://www.americanmusical.com/item--i-ECH-GINA3G.html

This M-Audio box seems neat too:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/clos...ewire410--Main


There are sure to be mucho similar boxes in this range, Loyct, so read around---these guys will know!

[Loyct]

Originally Posted by moon_unit

I like the recommendations, but do you really want to send this guy down the whole i88x path as a rookie?

The guy doesn't even know what a DAW is, and you want him to fiddle around with MLan? Not even if he was my worst enemy. Seriously, Loyct, I'd have a look at some of the Echo and/or M-Audio interfaces for now. Much easier for a beginner to navigate and get up and running. Echo, in particular, has outstanding support if you should need it. A lot of people seem to like the Presonus as well (haven't heard of many people who have problems with it). The Presonus and Echo's also come bundled with a multi-tracking program called Traktion, which looks to be about as complicated as sneezing.
.

*EXTREME NEWBIE.

OK guys, I think i might have got myself on the wrong path...i don't understand half the things you are saying..

All i want now is to be able to record guitars, vox, programme symphonies, bass, strings, and other instruments like saxophone or whatever and make a song out of these. Are VSL, Kontakt and all programmes like Guitar Pro* which I can prog drums, bass and other instruments?

Also, what do you mean by interface? Don't i just plug my Shure SM57 into the soundcard mic In and mic up my amp?


*don't vomit at the sheer noobility of that statement, just bear with me as i begin to learn.

[Almost Human]

If that's all you need, why not just check into the PResonus Inspire 1394 or Firebox:


http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/...se_pid/241483/


http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/...se_pid/184133/


It's minimal money, they sound great, and it comes with a version of Cubase LE you could do all your tracking with. You'd have 2 mic pre's that are good quality for the money to do all your tracking with (you shouldn't need more since you're recording drums), and the whole thing is Firewire based. Because of that, you just plug in play almost . You plug it in, install some drivers, and the manual will work you step by step how to get everything running with the included software. IF you want a bundle of stuff, MF also has a package for not much more that would get you started:


http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/...se_pid/241483/


For $569, you'd get the Firebox, the Cubase LE software, a mic stand and a couple cables, an extra mic, a set of headphones and monitors, etc. I would just toss a few more bucks out for Shure SM-57 as an all purpose mic for you, and you'd be good to go. Less than $650 could get you up and running with all you need. If you wanted drum software, you could check out Drumkit From Hell.

[7161]

well you dont say a fixed buget (it's a bit vague), and this place is too hi-end for this sort of thing in terms of searching for info cos everything you read will say "That's crap, buy a neve" er... or whatever plus you wont be able in alot of cases to understand it


anyways - dont buy Pentium 4 (imo)

my advice for a rookie setup on a budget:

amd64 machine (mini-atx is fine cos you only need a soundcard in it)

1gb ram to start

1 x 40gb h/d - C: boot/windows drive
1x 80gb h/d - D: work/audio drive
1 x 250gb - E: backup drive
1 x DVD/CD writer - F: for backup/archiving to DVD & burning audio CD's
Basic ati or nvideo agp card like ati5200 etc (also you can option for dual screens on all these cards which is WELL worth doing to manage screen estate)
cheap mouse/keys & whatever screen/s u like

KEEP IT SIMPLE!!!! - simple systems tend to be more reliable than the smart-ass wannabe-pc-tech approach:

"I want my pc to be waaaay faster than anyone elses, and i read toms hardware alot & I want it to be REALLY 'techy' & cutting edge so i added SATA RAID, a cryogenic cooling system, a PCI-Expresso machine and a left-handed clunge-pump from a 1923 Sopwith Flying Albatros!..."

------

Now, if you want to record ONLY single 'takes' at a time of just one instrument/voice (either stereo or mono 'takes') then a simple but good stereo soundcard is all you need:

ESI JUli@ soundcard or whatever

------

if however you need to record MORE THAN ONE thing at the same time then you need a multiple INPUT soundcard, so look at:

edirol firewire stuff or m-audio or rme or emu or esi's new esp1010 etc

basicaly you need to add-up how many mic's maximum you will want to record at once and find a solution which allows that many mic's to record at once AND have EACH mic being sent to it's own PC-Input and record track in the sequencer s/w to keep everything on seperate tracks as you record.

if you want to record 4 mic's max at once, if you get an 8-input soundcard device it usualy will have 2 mic sockets/pre-amps (most do) - then add a standalone second 2 channel mic' pre-amp and bring that IN to the PC by plugging it's outputs into 2 of the soundcard line-in stereo input channels = total of 4 mic pre-amps and no need for a mixer.

------------

sequencer.. well that's hard to say - Cubase SX3 is very cpu hungry due to the massive protection they built in across the whole programme which according to reports from upgrading owners actualy cripples the programmes efficiency(the crack apparently runs 2x more efficiently) . The older cubase SX2 is frankly fine, I personaly prefer emagic Logic for PC (and old version V5.5 therefore, but again it works fine, plus the included fx & compressors etc in Logic slay the crappy cubase-included ones.. but hey, there's PLENTY of really good FREE plugins you can use with any sequencer you choose so dont worry about that too much)

things like bass can be recorded direct into a LINE-INPUT using a decent pre-amp or modelling preamp such as line6 etc or the line-out on a bass head or guitar amp etc, so dont worry about a mic pre-amp for this



drums - as mentioned above, or NI's 'Battery' is VERY simple, easy, reliable, but the mentioned solutions above (BFD, DKFH etc) are more 'detailed' but more cpu hungry in use


you could go for a s/w like Kontakt sampler which will do your drums and also basses etc and like most s/w samplers it'll read akai library format disks which opens up a large library to you from various manufacturers.



as for the mic/s.. there's plenty of cool reliable good sounding chinese made large diaphragm 'vocal' mic's around from a variety of manufacturers which can also do acoustic guitar etc.



speakers?.. again, open to hot debate, choose from the usual suspects - but if going for ACTIVE (powered) speakers, you'll need also some sort of device to be able to send a foldback/monitoring sound to headphones AND to be able to easily turn down the active monitors when performing record 'takes' (something often overlooked by noobs)

i tend to use a cheap-assed behringer ub502 for that, cos all it is doing is routing the signal from the PC soundcard OUT to the speakers and acting as a volume control, and sending another feed to the headphones - if you need 4 sets of headphones max, you'll also need to get a multiple headphone amp starting cost-wise from the likes of Samson or Behringer etc

allow some budget for good leads & required pairs of headphones and also some acoustic tiles or whatever to make the room sound as good as possible if it's a bit reflective & 'live' you dont want that, so budget for thick carpet 9if none is present) and wall tiles etc to dampen down the room 'sound'

go with the basics, learn it well, then think about modifications and upgrades when you know what you want and have more experience.

[7161]

oh yeah.. IF by any chance you want this PC to also be 'net enabled'

1. do NOT install ANY 'install discs' from ISP's ESPECIALY AOL!!!!)

2. get a router, do NOT use ANY free/provided USB adsl modems.

3. using a proper router/modem means NOTHING has to be installed to add adsl

4. do NOT use Norton or Macafee!! (avoid like the plague) - use AVG or Avast FREE antivirus products.

5. do NOT use windows firewall, use something like Zonealarm free version


also, turn off all windows schemes and visual effects, turn OFF error reporting, turn OFF remote assistance, turn OFF automatic updates. do NOT install SP2 unless something hardware or s/w absolutely HAS to have it.

switch the machine to 'background services' for processor scheduling

format your audio drive to FAT32 large clusters (or get the PC builder to do this)

ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS make a new dedicated folder for each new song and store ALL audio, song file, fx patches and other items for that song in THAT folder - NEVER store songs in the cubase or whatever sequencer folder on the C: drive - also makes backup easy to the backup drive and DVD disks cos you just drag & drop the folder with all song contents.

Keep your audio drive FREE of finished songs... move them to the large storage/backup drive once finished - keep the audio drive only for current songs in-session you are working on, regularly move everything OFF the audio drive and reformat it (way faster also for defragging if kept relatively empty)

keeping everything work-wise OFF the C: Windows drive means if anything goes wrong you can reformat the C: drive & re-install windows and NOT lose any work or have to worry about wether you backed shit up before formatting.

that's that, keep it simple & logical

[Loyct]

Thanks guys, i'd hang around more often, i can't grasp what you're saying..to me its like

"Well, get this, this is gkeorajgpjia, and lokrg;aske to be lreaklgjealkgjlrakj and rekalgjkalr, really great. Don't get the eagkljrlkgja though, its eralkralkgjegkjkg, grjalgrjl;hjtrl;ajhlkarjh."

Consider this first :

Alright, before i get my stuff like cubase, a new comp, interfaces and whatnot, I Just want to make as much out of what i can now.

1)Audacity
2)Windows Sound Recorder
3)Computer Microphone.
4)Guitar
5)Guitar Pro

Alright, here is how i record so far (layering)

Programme Bass and drum in GP4.
Play the song, and record with my mic from the comp speakers

Save the song.

Open the song on Winamp, then use it as a reference to record the guitar tracks. Then the same for vox and leads.

I mix them altogether on audacity, and with latency, i get one big pile of mess..

That's why I want to upgrade my stuff to get a better studio, so i posted those questions.

Perhaps this gives you a better insight on the level i'm in, so you won't tell me to get eadg;lerkaj;gajogk becaue the ea;rajgkle on the erajgklrejl is very ergkajkle.

Thanks.

[Almost Human]

In contrast to the above, I've never had any trouble with a Pentium 4 processor (I use a 3.2 GHz), and I think things have ran much better since using SP2.

[simonv]

Since you're starting out, I suggest you get:

- A computer. I dont know Macs, but if you get a PC, get someone to build it for you unless you work in IT and know what you're doing. (Basically, build one that doesn't crash! thats it). Get a seperate Firewire card if your sound card is Firewire. Get 1 gig of ram, 2 hard drives, and you're in business.

- A MOTU soundcard. The 896 is good if you don't want to carry a mixer around. It's 8 channels with mic pres, phantom power, etc.). These things were 2300$CAN in 2002, and now go for around 1200$. You can find them used for 700-800$CAN. You'll get plenty of sound quality for the price. Don't listen to what others say about MOTU. Remember that you're starting out, it's no use getting a Rosetta 800 with 8 Neve 1073's. (I'll get banned for this I guess haha)

- MICs. The basics: Shure SM57, a good condenser mic (Rode mics are great for beginners, cheap too). (Once you have all the other equipement, go rent a bunch of mics that you heard about on gearsluts, and try them out. Then, buy what you like)

-A midi controller: something like a Oxygen.

-Software:
Sequencer/Tracker: Cubase (if you like it).
For Symphonies: I suggest Edirol Orchestral (VST instrument)

And drum programming.. that's hell. It depends what style you do. If you want realistic acoustic drums, I suggest a real drummer, you'll spend years trying to achieve realistic results, and won't. On the other hand, if you want functionnal, styled drum beats, get Acid with a bunch of loops, or Stylus RMX. (Sonic Foundry Acid is great for building drum tracks with loops)


In all cases, if you get advice from the guys at the music store, make sure you come here and do a search before you buy.

[Loyct]

simonv's post is something i can understand.

Well, i'd build the comp well, i know some stuff myself, and my friend's majoring in IT, on a Advanced diploma now.

So i don't get the yamaha interface like anyone else says? What's phantom power? So this MOTU..i just plug the SM57, the condensor mic into it and I record?

Also, what's a tracker/sequencer, and what do i need a midi controller for?

And..what software do i use to record? Windows recorder?

[7161]

look mate, just get 2 bean cans and a bit of string, that'll do fine i think for you.


*facks sake*

[simonv]

Phantom power: some mics need phantom power to work (Condenser mics). Its just a switch that you flip on to get the mic working.

Here's the deal:
You plug your mics into your soundcard (MOTU, Yamaha, whatever).
You plug the sound card into the PC (with Firewire, USB, PCI, depending on what soundcard you have)
You open Cubase/Logic/Vegas (whatever recording program you use)
You assign each Input to a track. (Mic #1 will record itself on track 1, mic #2 will record on track 2). If you have a MOTU, for example, you will have to tell Track 1 in the software to record MOTU Input 1; Track 2, MOTU Input 2.

Basically, every microphone will create a seperate WAV file that will be stacked over one another in the program.

In other words, if you have the guitar on one track, and the voice on another tracks, they're just 2 wav files playing at the same time over each other. And you can then Pan the track (Left or Right), add EQ, compression, reverb, and other effects. These effects are called Plugins. (You can also buy other plugins)



Sequencer = Program that lets you record and use MIDI tracks. (Cubase does that too. Cubase can record sounds, and MIDI).

The Oxygen MIDI controller is a keyboard that sends MIDI to the computer when you play on it. MIDI is just information (what notes you played on the keyboard, at what velocity, etc,etc,etc). When you have a midi track, you can assign it to a Piano sound, an Organ sound, a drum sound, etc,etc,etc. I suggested the Edirol Orchestral VSTi (VST Instrument) because it creates nice violin and other classical instruments sounds)

Good luck

[Loyct]

Originally Posted by 7161

look mate, just get 2 bean cans and a bit of string, that'll do fine i think for you.


*facks sake*

Sorry if I am irritating you, but i'm really new, so bear with me.

[simonv]

Btw, these are all very basic questions. Maybe you could just get an M-Audio Audiophile USB sound card instead of a Yamaha or a MOTU,and get used to recording with that

[moon_unit]

That's a great idea.

Loyct, I realize you're just starting out here and all, but keep in mind that you're embarking on something that is, inherently, a somewhat complex process. Even getting set up to do very basic tasks is likely to cause you some headaches at first, so be forewarned.

That's not to say that it's brain surgery. But at the same time, you wouldn't ask a bunch scientists to explain Nuclear Physics "in simple terms," either.

For someone in your shoes, I would recommend this:

http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_u...kPro-main.html

Very simple interface. Install the software drivers, hook it up to a free USB port, plug a mic in to it and you'll be up and running ... most likely. Can't think of anything simpler.

[Loyct]

So that's like a 2 in 1, external soundcard and recording device?

Will i be able to make a decent demo outta this?

Originally Posted by simonv

Phantom power: some mics need phantom power to work (Condenser mics). Its just a switch that you flip on to get the mic working.

Here's the deal:
You plug your mics into your soundcard (MOTU, Yamaha, whatever).
You plug the sound card into the PC (with Firewire, USB, PCI, depending on what soundcard you have)
You open Cubase/Logic/Vegas (whatever recording program you use)
You assign each Input to a track. (Mic #1 will record itself on track 1, mic #2 will record on track 2). If you have a MOTU, for example, you will have to tell Track 1 in the software to record MOTU Input 1; Track 2, MOTU Input 2.

Basically, every microphone will create a seperate WAV file that will be stacked over one another in the program.

In other words, if you have the guitar on one track, and the voice on another tracks, they're just 2 wav files playing at the same time over each other. And you can then Pan the track (Left or Right), add EQ, compression, reverb, and other effects. These effects are called Plugins. (You can also buy other plugins)



Sequencer = Program that lets you record and use MIDI tracks. (Cubase does that too. Cubase can record sounds, and MIDI).

The Oxygen MIDI controller is a keyboard that sends MIDI to the computer when you play on it. MIDI is just information (what notes you played on the keyboard, at what velocity, etc,etc,etc). When you have a midi track, you can assign it to a Piano sound, an Organ sound, a drum sound, etc,etc,etc. I suggested the Edirol Orchestral VSTi (VST Instrument) because it creates nice violin and other classical instruments sounds)

Good luck

Yes, that's what i want. Well, is MIDI good? I mean, would it sound professional when used? Sequencer is your recording program right? Why would I need oxygen in this case?

I'd be recording in my bedroom, so will this set of gear capture the lousy-acoustics? I have a bed, some shelves and a cupboard, so the reverb is pretty dead here.

[petsematary]

Yes, you will!

A good soundcard (M-Audio's a good one) with as many ins as you need, a good microphone preamplifier or mixer (again, based on how many inputs your need) and a mic or two plus a good pair of nearfield monitors will get you a LONG way. Or buy an external card with built-in preamps. That'll eliminate the need for preamps or mixer and still get you a very long way. Anyone who can't make demos with that is no musician.

And record with a decent computer. You don't however need a super-fast one. I work with an iBook 1Ghz with 768mb RAM and it works fine even with quite a lot of simultaneous tracks. You will be able to make great demos with that which I just described. Trust me. Geez, you can to incredible things with that!

If you've got good songs, you won't need more expensive gear than this. I mean, do you seriously think some guy at Sony records (or whatever) will sit down with you and say "hey, your songs are good but the production on this demo is just SOOO muddy, what converters did you use anyway?? Sheeesh!"

Didn't think so.

BTW...
Many of the guys n' girls who hang out here are serious professionals who own and/or work in studios. Their definition of "great" differs A LOT from yours. And mine too, for sure. It's a great forum and it's full of great, helpful people but don't forget about YOUR NEEDS either. You will be able to make kick-ass demos with that gear I just described. Hey, a major artist here in Sweden recorded his whole debut album in his kitchen with an ART preamp and an M-Audio card and that album (this is not bullsh1t or old myth) has gotten lots of praise for its sound.

[moon_unit]

Petsematary is presenting the highly-optimistic scenario.

I liken it to a carpenter and his tool box. That particular interface will make a good starter tool kit. Can you build a house with it? Depends on how fast you can learn all the nuances of carpentry. Some people have a knack with tools and building things, while some can't even make it out of wood shop class (I'd probably be closer to falling in that category). But in the right hands, it'll do the job.

One thing I always try to point out to people is that ... if your dream is to be an architect, is learning carpentry going to help you towards that end, or distract you from it, ultimately ? If you were a model, would you want to learn how to take your own head shots, and if you were an actor, would you buy a DV camera so you could shoot yourself? (Do you want to be an engineer, or do you want to be a musician?) It's something to think about.
.

[popmann]

I'm with moon unit...Get a little stand alone box that will do WAV import/export (I saw a Yamaha 4416 going for $800 here recently--or the Zoom machines with the built in drum machines)...and collaborate with a small studio in town. Hire musicains. Sampled bass? Eeewww. Maybe you can take tracks home and work out solo's double parts...maybe rent a nice mic/pre/limiter and cut some vocals there...take it all back to the studio to mix.

Frankly...this may sound a little arrogant, but I've been doing this 15+ years. It doesn't take a billion dollars in gear to make something presentable...but, it does take trained ears.

Now, if you're more interested in learning to record and mix...cool, grab a little home setup. But, don't think it's going to save you time or money or that you'll get a better product (any time soon) than you would in a little commercial room with other musicians.

[moon_unit]

While we've steered this conversation completely off-course ...

I'd like to elaborate a little;

Let's assume that you're really serious about your music. But at some point during the process of getting it recorded ... you find yourself stressing out over the recording aspect -- i.e. you're worrying more about getting a more powerful snare or a punchier bass sound in your mixes, and it's frustrating you -- then it's time for you to STOP. And find someone else to do the recording for you. Let him/her worry about that shit. Your music will be better if you can eliminate distractions and concentrate on it more.

Just a warning. Carry on.

.

[Loyct]

You're right. My focus is still ultimately music, I'm more of a guitarist and composer, but i need decent home recording to produce the demo, and also to do "blueprint" recordings when the band gets out to the scene and there are producers to handle my recording stuff.

I'm not going to be an engineer, but i don't want to be knowledge-less about this, some recording engineers are in it for the money than the music, and i want to detect this when i'm in the professional studio.

[dub3000]

if i were starting from scratch, i'd buy the following:

Shure SM57 mic (guitars)
AT4040 condensor mic (vocals, everything else) - cheap on ebay
PC w/ 1Gb RAM, loads of hard drive space

[An m-audio interface with enough inputs (I have a Delta 44 that's I like a lot)
Pro Tools m-powered (because it's really easy to use once you get up and running)]

or

[Pro Tools MBox or MBox2]

Some general sound rig and a cheap MIDI controller (w/ USB connection) - something like this http://www.native-instruments.com/in...d=bandstand_us (although you want to check the demos out, I haven't heard that one yet) - this will get you your basses, drums and horns.

A decent 2-channel preamp off ebay. I have a Focusrite green that's not too bad, but there are loads. Expect to pay about as much for your dual pre as you would for your mics. Makes a big difference.

Stands and cables

[octatonic]

Originally Posted by Loyct

I'm not going to be an engineer, but i don't want to be knowledge-less about this, some recording engineers are in it for the money than the music, and i want to detect this when i'm in the professional studio.

Loyct,

To be frank, this is bollocks.
There are far better ways of making money than being a recording engineer.
If anything people are into it for the gear- not the money- the odds of getting rich are pretty damn low.

Good engineers & producers bring objectivity to your project, they aren't trying to just get your money. They are trying to keep working in the industry because they enjoy it- but everyone needs to eat. A lot of what we eat is brown and lumpy beacuse we are always buying new gear and dealing with artists/labels who are late in paying.

If anything I've seen a hell of a lot of unsigned artists expecting something for nothing from producers and engineers- whether it be free advice, cheap productions or a link into A&R.

As far as your home studio plans go- from the questions you are asking I would say you need to get either a self contained hard disk recorder like a VS880 or a computer (ideally a Mac) with an entry level audio interface and a midi keyboard.
Beyond that the studio will gett too complex for your level of knowledge and you will spend more time troubleshooting your system and/or dealing with more advanced engineering techniques.

After a few years you will, if you stick with learning the craft, upgrade your gear to something more professional.

You are getting advice here from people working in the industry- some one them for decades.
We don't get a whole lot of complete newbies in here, really- you are certainly welcome to keep asking questions, but perhaps buying a book or two might be an idea.

http://www.homerecording.com has a lot of good information for you and links to some well known books on the subject.

Good luck.

[7161]

Sorry if I am irritating you, but i'm really new, so bear with me.

yeah but dude, it doesn't strike me you're making the slightest attempt to read & digest the extensive replies you've been given.

you asked a massive question, then after people took time to properly reply you say "oh forget that, just tell me how to record with my SBLive and windows recorder"



I mean come on, you dont have to fully understand something to 'get it' in terms of paring down the answers to a 'key-points' list - what you need to do is look at the replies...

...get a bit of paper and write down the key points that've been replied to and then fine-tune your next questions so that gradualy you wittle it down bit by bit.


you've gotta get your brain into some sort of methodology of questioning things or you'll be stuck where you are forever.

thing is, i dont think you've even read the above in that way

how hard is it to digest the fact you need enuff pre-amps to run 4 mic's? - so that is one KEY POINT

look, i'll give you an example: based on just a brief scan of the replies I've read above you know these Key Points:


1. the pc you know nothing about so leave that to a builder, there was no point asking cos you have no way of evaluating the replies.



2. You need enuff soundcard inputs to record 4 mic's AT ONCE to 4 seperate tracks



3. you need enuff mic' pre-amps to run 4 mic's



4. To get those mic inputs IN to your PC/sequencer software - You have a choice of replies:

A. a mixer+multi-input soundcard to provide your required minimum mic' 4 pre-amps

B. a soundcard with minimum 4 preamps onboard for the 4 mic's (no mixer required)

C. some sort of standalone mic pre-amps + multi-in soundcard (no mixer required)



D: the speakers are open to debate/opinion, but you have a choice of opinions and that choice isn't huge, so make a list of the speakers people recommend & shortlist those down to a manageable small list of choices.

E. the s/ware is a choice but you dont have many choices cos theres' only a few options for PC on the market


F. you'll need headphones and some way to distribute the headphone feeds from the PC/Players/singers



---------------

that's a sort of cut-down summation... is that so hard to deduce if you just take the time to read the above replies, cos i think the way you're going about this you aint gonna end up with any answer you understand and the whole thing is a waste of time. Plus, asking people for definations of things easily 'googled' and answered smacks of laziness. ("what is phantom power" etc)

tbh, based on your replies the best bet for you is to forget trying to understand stuff way beyond your level. MY kid started on cubase age 11 and now runs a fullblown production suite which he was able to work with unaided at 16... so it takes time.

I'd say simplest bet for you is:

1. get a builder to make the pc and forget asking questions about it.

2. add to that a multi-in audio rack/device with the required amount of mic inputs already on-board that device so there's no need to have to try and wire up a mixer & soundcard, or pre-amps & soundcard, it's easy & simple that way.

3. add some powered speakers (you choose by taking the list and auditioning in a local store if possible)

4. add a basic routing unit such as from Samson to split off the signal coming back FROM the PC to allow the signal to be sent to BOTH your speakers and headphone amp.

4. the headphone amp needs to power 4 pairs of speakers.

5. add cubase or whatever sequencer and learn it.





i'd seriously just start there, dont waste your money going esoteric at such a basic level. Get the basics, simple, easy to grasp, no complications and learn to use the s/w without having to worry about the 'extras'

that's what I did with my kid... I set him up with a basic pc and cubase. No mic recording, no flashy soundcard, just using the basic General MIDI sounds on the soundcard.

after a year @ age 12 he had the Cubase basic's down to create decent midi arrangements - then I upgraded his sound source with REASON so he had better sounds to work with

he then spent a further year + learning to use Reason & Cubase rewired together - to aid this I added a simple reliable stereo asio soundcard and a master keyboard so he could play the REASON sounds in realtime via the keyboard.

when he learned that around age 13/14 and had it down good, i then got him a pre-amp & vocal mic, and he then set about learning to add vocals and other audio to his midi composition


etc

take it step by step, get the reliable basics together without going mad and just add stuff as you go, cos you'll be confused as hell trying to make some mega setup work from the get-go.

(imo) remember, it takes time, and contrary to the crap you read in the adverts in music mags from s/w makers, it isnt easy to learn. They tend to make it sound like

"Buy this, add it to your PC and you too can start to make professional recordings!"

that's utter crap.. it takes time.