Ballin' on a Budget. Acoustic Guitar Recording under 500$

[bobtasco]

I went to my local sam ash store and told the guy I wanted to start recording my acoustic guitar vocals and do mixing via a computer. I had done some simple reading up on it and I knew I needed a condenser mic, an interface, and a monitor eventually. The guy told me "no no, you don't need all that." He set me up with a mic from blue called "the snowball" It is a fantastic mic, but I was unhappy with my recordings because there were no preamp possibilities.

I basically want to take my recording to the next level and am looking to spend 500$. dfegad

I am asking what would be a good entry level setup for that price range with regards to recording vocals and acoustic guitar.

I was thinking of this mike in particular. The reviews seemed pretty good for it.

Amazon.com: MXL MXL 990 Condenser Microphone with Shockmount: Musical Instruments

Besides an interface, will I need anything else to input USB into my laptop?

The program I am use is cool edit pro. I am told to try out audacity.

any input is appreciated.

[Mordae]

The MXL mic is great, but I wouldn't recommend you record an acoustic guitar in mono.
I'd go for a stereo pair for the guitar and another condenser for the vocals.
Maybe a Samson C02 pair for the guitar and an additional SM57B for vocals.
For the limit of 500$ It might be hard to find a interface with 3 preamps though.

Here's something for sub-500$.
ALESIS IO|2 Express
ESI nEar05 monitors
AKG Perception 170 for the guitar
AKG Perception 120 for the vocals

[S-Quest]

I definately agree that you want to stereo record your acoustic guitar. I'd look at MXL 603 or 993 pair for the guitar. About $100 for the pair. I got some pretty sweet recordings out of the 603's myself.

I had the MXL 990 and it is good for $50. For a few more bucks, I'd recommend the Studio Projects B1 thumbsup. I have that one, and it is way better than the 990. I got my B1 for $70 on craigslist. If you want your vocals on a whole other level, Shure SM7b . Can be found for about $250 used.

For the interface, if you are planning on recording the guitar and vocals seperate, then you only need a 2 channel interface. There are dozens to choose from. I like the Presonus Audiobox or Firebox and can be had for $150-200 new. If you want to record all 3 mics at once, you need a multichannel interface. The UX8 is $300 right now at GC and MF.

So thats about $320 (if you go with the B1 and a two channel interface) for three mics and an interface. Leaves money for XLR cables/Headphones (HD280!!!!!)/mic stands/pop filter/etc. etc.

Have fun!

[Eric Pederson]

Theres nothing wrong with doing mono acoustic guitar, or if you do go with a stereo mic setup some people on here would tell you they dont have to be the same mic.

I think one of the reasons to have two mics on an acoustic is often just to make sure you capture the things you need (which occur from different parts of the instrument)

[Chrisc_o]

Originally Posted by bobtasco

...I was unhappy with my recordings because there were no preamp possibilities.

This seems like an odd comment. Funny how many times poor recordings are associated to preamps, or the desire to improve sound quality draws people to new pres.

I agree With Mr. Pederson: mono can work just fine. Find the sweet spot and go.

Before anyone can give you any real advice you need to post a clip of your results. I have never used a Snowball but it can't be that bad of a mic/interface. Offering first hand evidence would be doing a great service to our community.

As for concrete advice on gear selection, do a search. Low-end mics and interfaces are discussed to a great extent around here. Many helpful people have said many helpful things that don't lose their helpfulness over time.


Oh, and welcome aboard!

[dragunov308]

How about a simulated acoustic sound. some of the new guitar processors like the ones from Digitech and Line 6 have very convincing sounds. You could use any electric guitar with one of these tone pedal devices. I have a real "plexi" amp and although different some of the settings on my Digitech unit sounded good on tape.

[Mellowmusic]

If you go the stereo miking way, get a pair of matched oktava mk-012.
those are really good for stereo miking and work on almost everything!

here in germany they cost 444 €.


best,

mellowmusic

[bobtasco]

That is my biggest fear. That preamp won't actually fix my sound quality. I am worried I will drop 500 dollars and not really see a big improvement in quality.

Here is a sample of the file.

[Gdupproductions]

Originally Posted by bobtasco

That is my biggest fear. That preamp won't actually fix my sound quality. I am worried I will drop 500 dollars and not really see a big improvement in quality.

Here is a sample of the file.

1.This problem might be caused by the mic it's self (not being satisfied off recording quality wich it is in your case.)

And.

2.To be sure what a Preamp does => How to make sense out of the Microphone Preamp jungle


Getting a preamp with a mic is for a reason .

1st !!! important thing is the mic its self then the pre amp-compressor-EQ...Cuz having a shit mic and expensive pre wont help neither

[Les]

Well, I am designing a mic that's specifically for stringed instruments. Not trying to do a sell job...it won't come out for about a month.

I'm doing the final voicing of the product right now though. So I have great interest in what folks consider a good acoustic guitar recorded sound. I have my own concept of course, as a long time player and past luthier.

I like stereo pair recording a lot. One can get a great sound with mono as well though.

Anyway I hope to see more opinions on this thread. I'm takin notes!

[GZsound]

You can get good acoustic guitar recordings with fairly inexpensive mics.

I recently recorded an acoustic guitar/Dobro duo with two GLS ES-57 mics that cost $30 each and got a pretty nice sound. Two of them make a great stereo recording of an acoustic guitar and cost under $60. Even SM57's can capture a nice acoustic guitar sound.

An inexpensive pair of condensers like the Samson C02's will work also. But check your local Craigslist for used condensers. I bought two AT ATM 10A condensers for $25 each that record great acoustic guitar.

[guitarmax_99]

Originally Posted by bobtasco

I went to my local sam ash store and told the guy I wanted to start recording my acoustic guitar vocals and do mixing via a computer. I had done some simple reading up on it and I knew I needed a condenser mic, an interface, and a monitor eventually. The guy told me "no no, you don't need all that." He set me up with a mic from blue called "the snowball" It is a fantastic mic, but I was unhappy with my recordings because there were no preamp possibilities.

I basically want to take my recording to the next level and am looking to spend 500$. dfegad

I am asking what would be a good entry level setup for that price range with regards to recording vocals and acoustic guitar.

I was thinking of this mike in particular. The reviews seemed pretty good for it.

Amazon.com: MXL MXL 990 Condenser Microphone with Shockmount: Musical Instruments

Besides an interface, will I need anything else to input USB into my laptop?

The program I am use is cool edit pro. I am told to try out audacity.

any input is appreciated.

To make the leap to the next level, you really need to make two purchases (maybe three). The issue I have is your price point; IMHO $500 is just a little short to get you to the "next level".

First, as you suspected, you need to buy an interface. There are lots out there. There are lots of people on this board with differing opinions about which low level interface is best. Listen to all of them with a grain of salt. I am a strong proponent of getting at least a stereo interface. It gives you more recording options that you WILL want if you only spring for a mono unit. The good news is that the converters that come stock with these units are much better than those on the market from ten years ago. However, the preamps in these units vary in quality from "decent" to "not so good". I can only tell you about the interface I'm using (the MBox) as I have not had any personal experience with others (probably the case with 99% of the people out here, which is why you should take their opinions with a grain of salt!).

The MXL 990 you mention isn't terrible, but it has some significant shortcomings. When I was first starting out I bought an the MXL 990/991 package. With a little EQ you can get some decent recordings out of them. But be forewarned: the 990 is inherently boomy - you will NEED to use EQ with this mic. Lately, I've been using a pair of Rode NT5's through my MBox2 Pro. Many people diss the MBox, but I have found it very usable (yes even the preamps).

Here is a clip of my acoustic guitar sound (stereo pair of Rode NT5's --> MBox2 Pro).

[Les]

Here is a clip of my acoustic guitar sound (stereo pair of Rode NT5's --> MBox2 Pro).

Very nice I must say. You'd be a good one to demo my new acoustic guitar mic.

It's mostly your good playng, but just curious...what's the guitar?

[guitarmax_99]

Originally Posted by Les

Very nice I must say. You'd be a good one to demo my new acoustic guitar mic.

It's mostly your good playng, but just curious...what's the guitar?

Thanks for the kind words Les. This is actually a Tacoma shallow body jumbo (mahogany back and sides; Adirondack spruce top). I strung it with extra heavy strings so I could tune it down and still get good tone out of it - sort of an experimental baritone guitar. I have other guitars that are strung more traditionally as well.

PM me about demoing a mic if you'd like.

[guitarmax_99]

Originally Posted by Les

... I have great interest in what folks consider a good acoustic guitar recorded sound. I have my own concept of course, as a long time player and past luthier.

This might be a discussion for a thread of it's own!

[Les]

Yeah I read a little more in the other thread. It's a really nice sound. how low did you tune with those thick strings? Whole step?

I'm doing the final voicing of the mic and I want to get it right. About the last thing I'm thinking about is live guitar plus singing. A lot of folks like to do that, and don't want to track. The classical solution is figure eight ribbon or condenser with the guitar mic null pointed at the singer and the vocal mic null pointed at the guitar.

Can't go figure eight in this SDC design, but could go hypercardioid. Might try that. If pointed slightly down you could get the vocal in the null. Then use LDC for vocal on figure eight.

We've been using XY on the prototypes at the body neck juction for tests, but it can be a little wide. Bad if the player moves much too.
But then one can pan them a little toward center or elsewhere (not all the way to mono, just a little) to control it if needed.

I'll pm you.

[Go Nigel Go]

Originally Posted by Eric Pederson

Theres nothing wrong with doing mono acoustic guitar, or if you do go with a stereo mic setup some people on here would tell you they dont have to be the same mic.

I think one of the reasons to have two mics on an acoustic is often just to make sure you capture the things you need (which occur from different parts of the instrument)

Big +1! Rhythm guitar especially can sound very good recorded mono, and panned later. If I record stereo I usually prefer different mics for precisely the reason you mentioned.

My recommendation on your budget would be an instrument mic (small diaphragm condenser) and a large diaphragm condenser that can double as a vocal mic, but still be used to mic another spot on the guitar or capture "room" in a stereo setup.

Most USB interfaces have preamps and phantom power as well as the A/D converter built in so I would spend whatever money I had left over after the mics to get the best sounding interface I could afford. You can always add additional preamps and what not to your signal chain later, but if the preamps in your interface are not up to snuff it is unlikely that you will get much benefit from an additional pre in the signal chain no matter how good it is. The interface will be the weak link. If the built in preamps are decent on their own a good pair of mics should sound pretty darn good.

The Snowball has everything built into the microphone housing, and I have heard they don't sound bad. Getting things separately though as you know allows you more flexibility with your signal chain, and I think that's a good thing.

In short, Good mics = Good sound capture, and Good interface = that signal is faithfully brought into the digital realm. That's where I would spend the money. You should be able to audition the whole setup at a good music store.

[guitarmax_99]

Originally Posted by Les

Yeah I read a little more in the other thread. It's a really nice sound. how low did you tune with those thick strings? Whole step?

I'm tuned a little funny in that clip actually. BF#BEF#B is the actual tuning. But basically, it's about a fourth down from standard tuning.

I'm doing the final voicing of the mic and I want to get it right. About the last thing I'm thinking about is live guitar plus singing. A lot of folks like to do that, and don't want to track. The classical solution is figure eight ribbon or condenser with the guitar mic null pointed at the singer and the vocal mic null pointed at the guitar.

Another neat approach to recording someone playing guitar and singing at the same time is to try an SDC off axis. Use a cardioid pattern and try pointing the mic directly at the floor, about a foot infront of the 15th fret. This minimizes the vocal getting into the guitar track. Some SDC's do better at this than others. Also important to take into consideration the floor (you might want to use a throw rug if you are on a hardwood floor). Once you get a decent acoustic sound on your SDC, you can mic the vocal with your mic of choice. Yes, there will be bleed. It's all about getting a musical result and avoiding phase cancellation, so you have to have a good monitoring situation and really use your ears.

Can't go figure eight in this SDC design, but could go hypercardioid. Might try that. If pointed slightly down you could get the vocal in the null. Then use LDC for vocal on figure eight.

We've been using XY on the prototypes at the body neck juction for tests, but it can be a little wide. Bad if the player moves much too.
But then one can pan them a little toward center or elsewhere (not all the way to mono, just a little) to control it if needed.

I've found it very difficult to use SDC's in XY patterns on acoustic guitar, largely because mic placement is so critical and so temperamental (move ever so slightly and it profoundly changes the sound). I've been pretty happy using the technique I've been using lately (described in detail in the other thread). I know it's not "by the book", but it's much more forgiving if the player moves a little bit.

[PaPi61]

I think this is the solution for you:

It's specifically designed for guitar players. It comes with everything you need, except the microphones. Price: around $300. Phenomenal deal.

YouTube - Introducing: V-Studio 20 for Recording Guitarists & Singer-Songwriters
YouTube - Cakewalk VS-20 Guitar Recording System
Cakewalk V-Studio - Record Your Guitar and Vocals with Incredible Tones

[guitarmax_99]

Originally Posted by bobtasco

That is my biggest fear. That preamp won't actually fix my sound quality. I am worried I will drop 500 dollars and not really see a big improvement in quality.

Here is a sample of the file.

This is a legitimate concern. Preamps rarely give you a BIG difference in quality. Unless you're going from something that is really noisy and inappropriately colored to something high quality.

I listened to your clip and it really doesn't sound bad. I'm betting you could improve your sound by experimenting with mic placement and by trying some elementary room treatment.

I still think getting into a stereo audio interface and a some decent mics would be a good move for you.