Yamaha HS50 w/ Sub or Yamaha HS80s w/o Sub?

[musikmaschine]

Originally Posted by Abery Clark

I have the 80's w/o cuba nd I am able to dial my mixes in with one or two tries. It was a nightmare with my old Tapcos. My room is untreated and my 80's are about 5 ft away

Originally Posted by mhs2xs

That's good to hear. Ultimately, the furthest I can get is about 3.5 to 4 ft, but then I'm knocking stuff off the bookshelf behind me. So about 3-3.5 is the norm. Plus my monitors have a wall close behind them. I've read plenty of people on here that have just the 80's and do well like that. I'm happy with my setup and, as long as I can produce a mix with it that others like, that is the most important thing to me.

I'm working in my living room so i have to sit pretty close to a wall. I saw your studio pics and wondered how you were able to mix low ends at all that close.

I tihnk you'd be surprised at the difference Arc can make. I had a 3db higher peak on the right channel cause of a boundary wall and that's cause i had them too close but it resolved the some issue. You really do need to get your monitors away from the wall, this is so true! The bass correction is really useful for dialling in the low end on kicks as well.

You get used to the sound of a room and in my case i was struggling with the low end, and the aggressive mids but now i know just how much i was fighting against the room.

If you've got an omni mic or spl try dling REQ and measuring your room. I only got Arc cause it was the right solution for me, but i'd recommed checking it out.

[rakkaus]

5" is too small, can't go loud without distortion. 8" is too big, can't speak mids that clean. i would rather go with 6,5'' or 7''.. like the hr624mk2 for low budget or a paradigm signature s2 if you got the money, then get a prismacustic recoil stabilizer to bring the bass alive, specially if you use it upon a desk.

[mhs2xs]

Originally Posted by musikmaschine

If you've got an omni mic or spl try dling REQ and measuring your room. I only got Arc cause it was the right solution for me, but i'd recommed checking it out.

Will do. Like I said, I need to start educating myself in that area and any research is at least a start in the right direction.

Cheers!
Mitchell

[KBOY]

Originally Posted by rakkaus

5" is too small, can't go loud without distortion. 8" is too big, can't speak mids that clean. i would rather go with 6,5'' or 7''.. like the hr624mk2 for low budget or a paradigm signature s2 if you got the money, then get a prismacustic recoil stabilizer to bring the bass alive, specially if you use it upon a desk.

Well true. But with the sub it's perfect at that budget. The Mackies are around 1k. Quite a bit more than the 50's with a sub. The S2's are close to 2k a pair.. paradigm are pretty awesome speakers though!!!

[mhs2xs]

Originally Posted by KBOY

I just feel like every time I a/b the two in the same room. Which I've done quite a bit. Probably a few hundred times now. The 50's just seem clearer. They can't even sorta touch my JBL LSR 4300 series with sub 5.1 system, but I'm getting a pair of the 50's for my desk for reference. Even with my JBL's I went with the 6's over the 8's. and not because of price. Ever wonder why most consumer speakers that have a mid range driver, have one that is usually 3 to 5 inches?

I'm not saying that this is the case with all speakers. There are some monitors with 8 inch drivers that sound great in the mid range. But you usually need to spend over 1k to get that kind of quality. I'm also super impressed that Yamaha did not try and over hype the bottom on the 5's too much. Sadly, most people don't really understand what they are listening to. And will immediately get the monitor with the most bass.

Most people buying these speakers really don't have their monitors 5 feet away. Most will have them on the desk right in their face. The 50's with the sub is a great combination!

I only think it's a mismatch because the sub should be bigger or at least have a bit more power. And they really should change the name of it.. HS50, HS80, HS10w... I seriously up until a couple of years ago thought it was a 10" woofer insider there. But I had never heard it up until that point. The HS10w is the perfect sub for the HS50's and makes a pretty great if positioned and setup properly small monitoring system for anybody, but especially urban and pop guys on a budget. I mean, you can get that set up for around 6 bills. That ain't bad. The HS80's deserve an actual 10" sub with double the power of the 80w. I actually wish they'd add more power to all the speakers. that's the biggest downfall of the 50's.. They can't get that loud cleanly.

But I'm a power / headroom *****. Even my 4300's are disappointing me in that area.

Yeah, I understand completely where you're coming from. And maybe how my situation turned out was just luck. But, while it may not be perfect, it worked out. As I get other things in order I'll upgrade my gear and rooms to a more suitable studio environ. In the mean time, I can at least plod along with a decent sounding rig.

[musikmaschine]

Originally Posted by rakkaus

5" is too small, can't go loud without distortion. 8" is too big, can't speak mids that clean. i would rather go with 6,5'' or 7''.. like the hr624mk2 for low budget or a paradigm signature s2 if you got the money, then get a prismacustic recoil stabilizer to bring the bass alive, specially if you use it upon a desk.

I've tried a 5" and a 6" monitor for those reasons but i have gone back to 8", i just prefer working with them. My first set were a pair of Event tr8s and i never had a issue with translation, then i went smaller cause i was downsizing but that was a mistake. Imo the hs80m is more of a mid focused monitor than other 8" monitors. You can always supplement them with some good headphones or behritones anyway.

[philoking]

I have HSM80s and I am seriously considering adding the sub. I have a calibrated monitor controller, decently treated room and a technically good listening position. I still end up with a little more bass than I intended when I put it in my car if I am not careful.

[babydaddymusic]

I have the HS50's and the HSW 10
The sub is such a great addition to the monitors. You have to be careful not to turn the sub up too loud. I barely turn the knob to around 8 or 9 oclock

[musikmaschine]

Originally Posted by mhs2xs

Will do. Like I said, I need to start educating myself in that area and any research is at least a start in the right direction.

Cheers!
Mitchell

Check out the comments by Danny Danzi on Arc. He's got a lot of experience with it and says it works well with a sub. I just set my yams up again tonight and did some fresh measurements and i'm listening to music via Arc in winamp and comparing the difference.

It makes them that bit more revealing in the lower mids. Yeah they are lacking deep low end but the bass response is much improved and the attenuation makes the lower mids and upper bass clearer, you can really hear it on vocals and percussion. I think i will get the sub but i'll see how mixes translate.

Re the thread, i got the 80s cause of the inherent problems with adding a sub in an untreated room. I wanted something with enough low end to work with until i was ready but i'd spoken to a couple of people who've just had ongoing issues with setting a sub up so needed to look into it more but it seems like you guys are doing ok. Don't forget about treatment though! I'm using a few traps in my space but i think you really need to fully treat a small room to add a sub. In my case i'm gonna use Arc as i can't really have a dozen traps up in my living space!

[mhs2xs]

Thanks again for the info and the insight. I'm going to check into it tomorrow when I get home from work and before the game.

Geaux Saints!

[musikmaschine]

Originally Posted by mhs2xs

Thanks again for the info and the insight. I'm going to check into it tomorrow when I get home from work and before the game.

Geaux Saints!

No worries! I'm getting a bit overzealous, got Arc on the brain so apologies to the OP for that.

It's a great system though, i'll have to do review. Enjoy the game!

[joeebangs]

with the 80's theres no need for sub , the bass is great im actually very suprised cause i heard they had no bass but the low end is perfect i think on paper it reads it goes down to 55 hz ? cant be im hearing alot lower then that , the highs are fine my only concern is the mid range i dunno a little fishy to me then again this is my seond they using them and i beenb sick all weak so maybe im part deff lol , cant go wrong for the price, bass is on point an my room is horrible.

[MickeyMassacre]

50's with a sub.

I didn't like the mids on the 80's at all.

I just use 50's and check low end on my headphones.

[Calaubin]

I've worked with the HS50 for like 5 years, with the HS80 since last year and I am going to get rid of the HS80. They are ok monitors but IMHO they are very different to the HS50 in a bad way. My mixes translated alot better with the little ones, maybe because I knew them better, but I think I was able to balance volumes alot easier on the HS50, even balancing bass was easier to me. Now with the HS80 I tend to dislike the effect of compression (which I actually love) and my mixes do sound like they lack a little compression now, I never had that problem on their little brothers. Low-mids dont exist on the HS80, and the highs are harsher than on the 50s. I guess my compression problem is because of the weired mid-range. Somehow they sound a little eco/greenie/soft (dont know how to describe), where the 50s sounded in-your face in that range.

I would take the HS50 over the HS80 any day. Now I am getting my old NS10's back.

For me it is NS10>HS50>HS80. This is just my 0.02ct, but I worked with KRK V6/8, Genelec 1031/8050, Augspurger Mains, Adam A7, etc. so I do have a little experience when it comes down to monitors

[Neodym]

I would go 50m + sub..... people will always say go bigger and bigger but this 50m sub combo will have deeper and much more tight and flat bass than 80m...... dont forget these are just regular ported cabinets.... if you dont need the loudness of 80m go with quality of 50m+ sub,you will not be dissapointed...


if this was Genelec,PMC or Geithain,or Unity Audio... witch have gadgets like ATL or are simply sealed
then I would say go bigger and **** sub,but with classic port cabinet I would go for sub,the steep roll off,hyped port resonance,time domain phase smearing and crap going thats going to bounce on walls comming from that hole,not good in my book

[Mazrak]

The HS80Ms really need a subwoofer too. I would get the 50s and a sub, myself. I'm about to sell the HS80Ms to get some 5" monitors and a small sub.

[DAH]

I am using hs80m with closed ports, close to the short wall, they go down to 40 Hz then roll off. I think i do not no subwoofer, and i put +2 mids and -2 highs

[andreaeffe]

Originally Posted by Calaubin

Somehow they sound a little eco/greenie/soft (dont know how to describe

Gotta love this one...


Now let's wait for some... polluting/diesel/non-carbon-friendly sounding nearfields. Aaah.


Just kidding, obviously.


A
F

PS- to be useful to the thread, I personally use the HS80s in a fairly well treated room, on a shelf across the meterbridge of a large format analogue console, and (with the mid switch to one step + and the high frequency switch to one step - ) I like them a lot, they do the job and mixes translate immaculately. Tried the sub in my room, but didn't buy it - it was either too much, or I could hear where the HS80s were rolling off with a little valley/dip before the sub kicked in. Then again, I've heard them with a sub in another room and they were really sounding good, thumpingly powerful and smooth.
The HS50s without the sub I find way too "shouty" and treblishly bass light, with the sub I find they work very well in les treated rooms, smaller rooms, or right next to a PC/computer based workstation & screen - the desk surface and monitor spacing and distance does make a lot of difference.

[Spaaceman]

Hey guys,

I'm looking into a 2.1 desktop system and was initially considering the HS80Ms with a subwoofer. I will be using this system SOLELY for enjoying music (no movies and no production). I auditioned the HS80Ms with a wide range of music genres I enjoy and liked them a lot but have not been able to test the HS50Ms. Many have mentioned the HS50Ms do a better job with the mids due to the driver size -- is there a substantial difference between the two in mid section sound quality? I prefer the larger driver for louder output but I don't want to sacrifice sound quality by having a mid driver that must compromise between mids and lows especially if I have a decent sub. If it matters, I don't plan to get the HS10W but rather something along the lines of a SVS SB12-NSD.

Thanks!

[jrhager84]

I'd take either, but I love my bass, so I'd say 50s with a sub. Hell, I still have my 50s. Sold my 80s years ago...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using Tapatalk

[andreaeffe]

Originally Posted by Spaaceman

Hey guys,

I'm looking into a 2.1 desktop system and was initially considering the HS80Ms with a subwoofer. I will be using this system SOLELY for enjoying music (no movies and no production). I auditioned the HS80Ms with a wide range of music genres I enjoy and liked them a lot but have not been able to test the HS50Ms. Many have mentioned the HS50Ms do a better job with the mids due to the driver size -- is there a substantial difference between the two in mid section sound quality? I prefer the larger driver for louder output but I don't want to sacrifice sound quality by having a mid driver that must compromise between mids and lows especially if I have a decent sub. If it matters, I don't plan to get the HS10W but rather something along the lines of a SVS SB12-NSD.

Thanks!

I think the HS50s with the sub (and I do mean the Yamaha HS10W sub, that was meant/paired for them... I wouldn't experiment too much with another sub, Yamaha seems to have done their homework on these!) sound OK if U don't intend to push them too much, go too loud, because U'll find both sheer volume and wider midrange impact lacking, it gets loudness/smiley curved & shouty when pushed - and also, on the other end, if U intend to listen at very low volumes the HS tweeter will show its' hyperzealous & hyperactive nature and U'll find U have a sound that's way too sizzling, while the sub's speaker is still barely being moved and the mids sound cold.
With the HS80s it is a bigger (sounding) beast altogether - perhaps more R&R and less of a hifi style loudness-curve friendly sound, if this empirically means anything, as a description.

But, U'd have to make sure your room works well with the HS80s + sub, it's a demanding & air moving combo.

In my opinion & experience, of course.


A
F

[Jazz Noise]

Em, how about 50's with no sub? I can happily find the fundamental of a kick on mine - down to 30-40hz. Unless you have a room in which you think you'll get any sort of value, the bottom 2 octaves might prove to be more problematic than helpful. It's where headphones come in handy, personally.

[jrhager84]

Hate to break it to you, but those 50s don't go that low... Lol

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using Tapatalk

[Jazz Noise]

Originally Posted by jrhager84

Hate to break it to you, but those 50s don't go that low... Lol

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using Tapatalk

It's -20dB point is around 40hz judging from the manual. Not trying to rain on your science of course...lol!

[jrhager84]

Originally Posted by Jazz Noise

It's -20dB point is around 40hz judging from the manual. Not trying to rain on your science of course...lol!

Riiiiight, so you just have a great time hearing 30hz when the -20dB point of the 50 is 40hz???? Wow, you must be part fruit bat....

[Jazz Noise]

Originally Posted by jrhager84

Riiiiight, so you just have a great time hearing 30hz when the -20dB point of the 50 is 40hz???? Wow, you must be part fruit bat....

It's fine, actually! I know they're bass light, I a/b it on my HD-25's and keep in mind that I'll be mixing bass-heavy. I think it'd be pretty naive to try and use a sub in my room when I've no treatment done. Unless I was just trying to console myself and my ineptitude with LF content, at which point I'd probably want two subs.

[jrhager84]

That's my point. Just because you can 'work around' an issue, does NOT mean there's no issue.

I'm literally looking at my old pair of 50s right now. I used them for years in many places, and I know what they can (and can't) do.

I never said you couldn't make good tracks on them. I said they don't go low (accurately).

50s + sub (not on full blast) is the better of the combos the OP asked about.

Just my rusty two bits...

-J

[Jazz Noise]

Originally Posted by jrhager84

That's my point. Just because you can 'work around' an issue, does NOT mean there's no issue.

I'm literally looking at my old pair of 50s right now. I used them for years in many places, and I know what they can (and can't) do.

I never said you couldn't make good tracks on them. I said they don't go low (accurately).

50s + sub (not on full blast) is the better of the combos the OP asked about.

Just my rusty two bits...

-J

I'm not disagreeing with that sentiment (and obvious the headphone compromise is dependant on me owning them, and is in a sense a bodge..though I'd check with them anyway!), just wished you hadn't taken 2 posts to say it!

Obviously a full-band system is optimum, but I think it's dangerous territory in an untreated room to go loading it with bass. If the OP keeps the volumes sensible and he balances it then he can definitely gain something from them. I'm merely erring on the cautious/cynical side from meeting people with a 2.1 set up. I'd rather anything over seeing another hi-fi/production mishmash monitoring situation. Either way if OP is willing to sit down, read the manual and do some listening and evaluation chances are he'd have a better monitoring system than alot of people anyway!

[jrhager84]

Originally Posted by Jazz Noise

I'm not disagreeing with that sentiment (and obvious the headphone compromise is dependant on me owning them, and is in a sense a bodge..though I'd check with them anyway!), just wished you hadn't taken 2 posts to say it!

Obviously a full-band system is optimum, but I think it's dangerous territory in an untreated room to go loading it with bass. If the OP keeps the volumes sensible and he balances it then he can definitely gain something from them. I'm merely erring on the cautious/cynical side from meeting people with a 2.1 set up. I'd rather anything over seeing another hi-fi/production mishmash monitoring situation. Either way if OP is willing to sit down, read the manual and do some listening and evaluation chances are he'd have a better monitoring system than alot of people anyway!

I agree with everything except the sub argument. With a sub, he can drive lower frequencies at a lower volume, lessening the fletcher-munson effect your ears have.

[Jazz Noise]

Originally Posted by jrhager84

I agree with everything except the sub argument. With a sub, he can drive lower frequencies at a lower volume, lessening the fletcher-munson effect your ears have.

Nobody said anything about running a system loud, but obviously it would mean you can hear the lower octaves a little better when running quiet. Not to be an absurdist but they'll also be extra loud if you turn it up. Room modes obviously play a lesser role at low volumes so bass judgements at low levels might be useful but they're still a hazard at moderate to loud listening levels. It does solve one problem, but it presents others.

I'm still not convinced the very bottom 2 octaves are that important (or should I say as important as is often implied) and I'd really need to see a proposed monitoring setup before I'd support including a sub as bass buildup can be very misleading. I know in theory it's a yes or no question but it's obviously not that clear cut a decision. Again, just a set of opinions for a guy with alot of em!