cheap cables vs qualiyu gear

[jonestown]

Hey guys, what kind of difference does it make using cheap vs brand name cables when using decent quality gear.

[Arichlsss]

I've done several experiments. Cheap cables break. But copper is copper to a certain extent.

[patheticus]

Thats not true at all. All cables sound different. If you're using high quality gear with hosa/livewire cables your cheating yourself. Mogami cables are my favorite. Monster and Canare sound great as well.

[miles_b]

If you're asking about sound quality, in my experience, it really depends on the brand. Some brands continue to live on a reputation that they may have earned 20-30 years ago, but at this point their sound quality is mediocre+. Sometimes these brands have higher-end lines which actually make a difference, sometimes not. There are also newer, lesser-known brands which can be hit or miss, but often will hit more, because they have to prove themselves to their customers in order to stay in business. Cheap cables are cheap cables. Small gauge wire with impurities in the copper will degrade your sound, especially with low-voltage signals, like what comes out of a microphone or a pick-up. It may be degradation you can live with, but I think a good rule is to always set aside at least 10% of your gear budget for cables.

[mhs2xs]

Originally Posted by jonestown

Hey guys, what kind of difference does it make using cheap vs brand name cables when using decent quality gear.

Can of worms is now open...Let the games begin!

Some say they hear a huge difference between the expensive stuff and the cheaper. But my ears were not blessed with the "hypercilia" that these individuals possess because I do not hear what they are hearing. As long as the wires are of decent quality and they're actually soldered and not broken anywhere, I don't see a reason. When Monster started marketing different bass and guitar cables I shook my head...WTF? So one won't work on the other?

All these years...How did we EVER actually make any music or recordings in the past without all if this wonderful stuff? Guess Belden and Switchcraft should go out of business now.

I'll now defer and wait to hear how and why more $ for cables = stike"The Sounds of the Gods"stike

[Bob Olhsson]

The Hosa that went intermittent on me and was so poorly constructed that I couldn't fix it on the bench before a session had a seriously bad effect on both the sound and my attitude toward Hosa!

There is a mid level of cables used by the broadcast industry and pro studios that is well worth the expense. The higher end stuff from Markertek - Audio and Video Equipment - Professional Broadcast Studio Equipment is good.

[Beefy]

Good quad cable makes a big difference the silver connectors actually pass current better than the gold. Good quad cable and shielding defiantly makes a big difference. Look up redco if you make yoru own there as cheap as cheap cables just much better or custom order ones from them.

[mhs2xs]

Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson

The Hosa that went intermittent on me and was so poorly constructed that I couldn't fix it on the bench before a session had a seriously bad effect on both the sound and my attitude toward Hosa!

There is a mid level of cables used by the broadcast industry and pro studios that is well worth the expense. The higher end stuff from Markertek - Audio and Video Equipment - Professional Broadcast Studio Equipment is good.

Was this a brand new cable or had it been in use for a bit? If it was in use, how was the sound prior to the problem? Just curious as I have a few Hosa cables myself and have had to repair them. But it was after some pretty heavy use and they sound no different than my Monster patch cables.

Cheers!
Mitchell

[mhs2xs]

Originally Posted by Beefy

Good quad cable makes a big difference the silver connectors actually pass current better than the gold. Good quad cable and shielding defiantly makes a big difference. Look up redco if you make yoru own there as cheap as cheap cables just much better or custom order ones from them.

But the gold is.....well.....gold....and gold is BETTER than silver...

Edit: Meant to ask, how does the quads fair against proximity to power cables? Is there a big difference compared the 3 conductor?
One more question and then I'll let it go. Have any of you seen any data from independent testing showing resistence values, metered audio tests and such to support that Mogami, Monster, Canare, etc. are vastly superior to Live Wire, Hosa, Horizon, Whirlwind, Hot Wires, etc. If so, I would like to examine this document and see for myself. Because honestly, and it may be just me, I can't hear it.

Now, if you want to talk about cheaper cables than what I mentioned here, then I'll agree that they are a PITA but moreso because they break if you breath on them and as a previous poster said, dubious in their construction.

Thanks again fellow slutzs...please enlighten me!

Cheers!
Mitchell

[Rotaholic]

No point it having expensive gold ends on your cables if your gear doesnt, it needs to be great from start to finish.

[Bob Olhsson]

Originally Posted by mhs2xs

Was this a brand new cable ...

It was a few weeks old and used by one of the musicians I was working for.

[mfischman3]

Is the search function broken again? There must be 50+ threads on this very topic.

Just listen/try it for yourself and you'll have the answer to 99.99% of all questions and "debates" throughout these threads.

[Rotaholic]

Amazon.com: AudioQuest K2 terminated speaker cable - UST plugs 8' (2.44m) pair: Electronics

I dont think I could ever justify purchasing something like that

[davemccall]

Scientifically, analog cables can vary greatly in signal integrity. Digital cables do not (they are either all or nothing). 1s and 0s are 1s and 0s in an aluminum wire or solid gold.

Analog sine waves are not the same. You don't always get what you pay for, but it is probably worth it to spring for some mid-grade analog cables. The law of diminishing returns kicks in FAST with audio cables, so spending $200 won't be twice as good as a $100 cable (it might only be 110% or 105% of the audio quality). It's the kind of thing you have to find your own compromise point on.

[Silent Sound]

Here's my rule on cables. Buy the shortest ones you can get away with. The difference between a 10' cable and a 20' cable will be a LOT bigger than the difference between any brand names. Gold plated connectors just keep the connectors from corroding, you're still going to be bottle-necked by the length of the copper wire. If you had ten thousand dollar monitors, you MIGHT be able to pick out the differences between two cables, but mostly it's just going to be the placebo effect (never underestimate the power of the placebo). You'll get more bang for your buck spending that money elsewhere in your signal chain.

I've got two pairs of TRS 6' long cables. One set is the cheapest Livewire brand cables I could find, the other set is a Monster Stuido Link. The Livewire was $7 each and the Monster was $50 each. I ran many AB tests on them when I got the Monsters, and was thoroughly disappointed. There's NO perceivable difference in sound when listened to on a set of Tannoy Reveal monitors. Maybe I could tell the difference if I had some Genelec's or something but I really feel as though that's in the realm of splitting hairs...

[mhs2xs]

Originally Posted by Rotaholic

Amazon.com: AudioQuest K2 terminated speaker cable - UST plugs 8' (2.44m) pair: Electronics

I dont think I could ever justify purchasing something like that

But, but, but...you know it'll sound 6,760 dollars better than a Monster. I smell a grammy winning cable here!

[mhs2xs]

Originally Posted by Silent Sound

Here's my rule on cables. Buy the shortest ones you can get away with. The difference between a 10' cable and a 20' cable will be a LOT bigger than the difference between any brand names. Gold plated connectors just keep the connectors from corroding, you're still going to be bottle-necked by the length of the copper wire. If you had ten thousand dollar monitors, you MIGHT be able to pick out the differences between two cables, but mostly it's just going to be the placebo effect (never underestimate the power of the placebo). You'll get more bang for your buck spending that money elsewhere in your signal chain.

I've got two pairs of TRS 6' long cables. One set is the cheapest Livewire brand cables I could find, the other set is a Monster Stuido Link. The Livewire was $7 each and the Monster was $50 each. I ran many AB tests on them when I got the Monsters, and was thoroughly disappointed. There's NO perceivable difference in sound when listened to on a set of Tannoy Reveal monitors. Maybe I could tell the difference if I had some Genelec's or something but I really feel as though that's in the realm of splitting hairs...

Harumph! thumbsup That's been my experience as well.

[mhs2xs]

Originally Posted by davemccall

Scientifically, analog cables can vary greatly in signal integrity. Digital cables do not (they are either all or nothing). 1s and 0s are 1s and 0s in an aluminum wire or solid gold.

Analog sine waves are not the same. You don't always get what you pay for, but it is probably worth it to spring for some mid-grade analog cables. The law of diminishing returns kicks in FAST with audio cables, so spending $200 won't be twice as good as a $100 cable (it might only be 110% or 105% of the audio quality). It's the kind of thing you have to find your own compromise point on.

And another great reply from the realms of sensibility. Glad to see there's a few people around here that share my view.

Cheers!
Mitchell

[Bubbagump]

I see cable in three categories... Absolute crap (see Hosa and the cables that come in those little bags with any new guitar purchase). Work horse decent stuff (ProCo, CBI, some Belden), high end (Canari, Mogami, Gotham, other Belden).

Certainly avoid the low end crap as it will just frustrate you. It breaks, picks up noise, etc. and you'll just end up buying the same cheap cables over and over.

The bigger decision is between the work horse and high end and if you really get any value from it. If you hear a difference, then it matters.

I can say there is a definite difference with high impedance souces (electric guitars). Lower capacitance gives more high end, higher capacitance more of a mid range bump... so you have to decide what you prefer. I prefer the mid range bump on guitar. FWIW, in my testing, Canare GS6 sounds nearly identical to Mogami W2524.

For line level gear, quality balanced cable of any sort is more or less equivalent.

For microphone use, again, see guitars. You can nit pick over capacitance, but personally, unless you are running long runs (say >50-100ft) I am hard pressed to tell the difference. I have always gone star quad just as a belt and suspenders measure as I do have some sources of noise. Folks will say due to their higher capacitance they have a high end roll off, but with the 20 ft lengths I use, I don't hear it.

As for speaker cables, speakers work entirely different than everything else. The major point with speaker cable is getting a lower gauge and that's it. 12 gauge lamp cord is going to perform more or less identically to 12 gauge boutique speaker cable. Shielding etc is not a factor in speaker cable. Again, it is a matter of build quality.

So long as you are getting reasonable quality, the rest is a matter of taste IMO.

[mfischman3]

Beyond materials, there's construction & fabrication. If something is sitting, fixed in the back of a studio rack this may not be your biggest concern.

You can buy the priciest cable and connectors and they can be assembled poorly (just like any other piece of gear). What you'll have is crap, and if you bought a bunch, then a bunch of crap. All of it likely worse than a budget Hosa or Livewire cable.

However, solid cables that are built correctly will hold up for years in the studio live room and on the road day after day. They'll pay for themselves by not having to be replaced yearly, if not monthly.

[RonT]

My Ass!

A copper cable is a copper cable! Ain't no difference in sound from the crappy molded HOSA crap and Magomi outside of build and price. They sound the same.

I have spent so much time and testing on this that I refuse to buy high-end cables anymore. It makes your ego feel good and the insurance that the damn thang just want up and die but come on..........

Saying all of that, I have but almost replaced all the HOSA snakes that I had which is about 30 at various lenths and sizes but I have kept all of the HOSA dsubs that I have becuase the work just fine and sound the same as all Pro-core, Redco, Magomi and Planet Waves that I have.

Stop the terrible ficticious claims about the sound of "copper" cables!

[Aaron Miller]

Originally Posted by RonT

My Ass!

A copper cable is a copper cable! Ain't no difference in sound from the crappy molded HOSA crap and Magomi outside of build and price. They sound the same.

I have spent so much time and testing on this that I refuse to buy high-end cables anymore. It makes your ego feel good and the insurance that the damn thang just want up and die but come on..........

Saying all of that, I have but almost replaced all the HOSA snakes that I had which is about 30 at various lenths and sizes but I have kept all of the HOSA dsubs that I have becuase the work just fine and sound the same as all Pro-core, Redco, Magomi and Planet Waves that I have.

Stop the terrible ficticious claims about the sound of "copper" cables!

I don't know about copper vs. something else, but there is a subtle but noticeable difference between my Mogami Platinum guitar cable and my regular ones. The platinum has a slightly more extented and defined top end, up in the 8K and above range. Funny though, cause I prefer my old, crappy low end cable most of the time on guitar anyway.

[Diantre]

Just get something well made that won't break. I've had a lot of luck with Digiflex cables (http://digiflexcables.com/2/EN/cables.htm:

Fairly priced with no marketing gimmicks (see Monster), very well built, with Neutrik Connectors.

I've had some Digiflex cables since 2002 and they still work fine with no signs of stopping, and they are used at least a few days a week with frequent unplugging/replugging.

For fixed rack stuff, make your own. Get a couple hundred feet of good cable, a few dozens of connectors and get soldering. You'll save heaps.

[Bubbagump]

Originally Posted by Aaron Miller

I don't know about copper vs. something else, but there is a subtle but noticeable difference between my Mogami Platinum guitar cable and my regular ones. The platinum has a slightly more extented and defined top end, up in the 8K and above range. Funny though, cause I prefer my old, crappy low end cable most of the time on guitar anyway.

+1. I tried to argue the same thing with a buddy of mine over the Platinum, Canare GS6, and Mogami W2524 a month or so ago. In a blind test over identical lengths, while I was hard pressed to tell the difference between the Canare and W2524, I could pick out the Platinum every time. I didn't prefer it, but I could certainly tell.. and it wasn't that subtle. I preferred higher capacitance cables too as that mid bump just sounds better to me. Of course, this is a very specific application... passive high impedance guitar pickups. Active electronics are a whole other ball of wax as the capacitance/inductance rules don't apply in the same way.

[Svenarne]

Originally Posted by Rotaholic

Amazon.com: AudioQuest K2 terminated speaker cable - UST plugs 8' (2.44m) pair: Electronics

I dont think I could ever justify purchasing something like that

Found these.

Anyone expensiver?

Sven

[nedorama]

For live - audiopile.net has their own cable with neutrik or neutrik-like ends. inexpensive, handles well, and haven't had problems. Definitely a step up from Hosa, Pro Co, Samson, etc. Same for their snakes.

Studio - Redco.com can't be beat, and you can choose your cable, from their own to Gotham, Canare, Mogami. Plus custom cables with length and connectors of your choice. They will also custom wire cables to patch panels - nice for those of us with no soldering skills.

Guitar - George L's are great, and won the best sounding/lowest noise at least in 1 if not 2 Guitar Player cable shootouts. I've used these to wire up unbalanced synths in a studio rack and the low noise and no-solder customization is a winner for me.

Monster - great marketing, wouldn't overpay for their hype. Not worth it.

All the other cables - if you're spending $500 on a 3' RCA cable, you're probably also buying $600 IEC cables and haven't spent diddly on room treatment. I have a bag of rare crystals you can place near your speaker terminals to let the electrons "breathe" better...

[mhs2xs]

Originally Posted by Svenarne

Found these.

Anyone expensiver?

Sven

Praise the lord and pass the collection plate. The most expensive ones yet. Get those cables on the Grammy is on the UPS truck.

[ampwax]

Longer runs probably make more of a difference in sound quality. I vote for cables like redco that are well made and not gonna break randomly in a tracking session, where I'm running around like an idiot wondering where in the signal chain things went wrong. The loss of money here is way more important than the difference between the price of say, redco cables, and some higher priced competitors.

[Bob Olhsson]

Originally Posted by nedorama

...Guitar - George L's are great, and won the best sounding/lowest noise at least in 1 if not 2 Guitar Player cable shootouts. ...

Guitars are a special case that is far more demanding of cables. A client and friend of mine is selling some remarkably great sounding guitar cables. I gave him an endorsment interview knowing perfectly well I'd get beat up by some folks for it. His guitar cables simply speak for themselves.

Asterope

[Weasel9992]

There are a thousand threads on this topic. In terms of audible quality, any difference is probably subjective and not measurable. Sorry, but it's true. It's been tested time and time again. The only difference between expensive cables and cheaper ones comes down to build quality and durability. Don't shoot the messenger. This is a really common audio question...it's been answered a million times in a million places. All the research is out there.