Advice to all newbies and those who could use it!!!

[cannibalbritney]

hey guys, I've been a slut of the gear for quite a while now, have been studying this forum as well as many others like the gospel always looking for that right sound etc. Since we are all gathered here for the same reasons I figured I might as well put in my 2 cents to anyone that wants to listen to it.

after many countless months of breaking my ass to get gear, to get a better sound I finally have come to the conclusions of breaking everything down to the basics. yes we all know that your interface has a great deal to do with your sound, so does your equipment and guitar/bass/drums/ mics etc. but its just not really in the budget of alot of people, and sometimes the only thing they can get is that lousy 99 dollar POS at the guitar center sale.

so after many years i have come to the conclusion that its all about your connections, and signal flow, ie: CABLES !

i have spent damn near 50-60 grand on my stuff and i was never fully content. finally i upgraded my monitors to a pair of genelecs and matching sub *which are amazing by the way* but i know not many people will ever get to experience these on a realistic budget so why should i act like you would by telling you to buy stuff that you could only really discern a difference from unless you had such high quality monitors.
In the process of upgrading i noticed that i still wasnt getting what i wanted. so i said screw it, lemme go out and blow 3 grand into cables. so I went and got myself some High end Mogami's *great cables, im sure there is better out there, anyone want to tell me please, i would love to hear input on this*

after spending a day or so re-routing all my cables i was shocked to hear the difference. so as a test i borrowed a friends stock 002 *non black lion modded* and i used a set of mxl's 990's and 991's (again cheap mics for someone on a cheap budget) using the mogami's ofcourse, to mic up a drumset overheads and room mics. all i have to say is WOW! again i used an sm57 on a guitar cab, nothin special just standard marshall cab, stock speakers, and a soldano SLO, and again WOW the difference made me wonder if i even needed to upgrade alot of my gear.

now im not saying that upgrading your gear is a bad idea, ofcourse if you do a black lion mod or somethin your gear is gonna sound un-f-ing believable but i will say that it can definitely hold off... just invest into really good cables and if you can, really good monitors. hell i used to have a pair of behringer truth actives on a 40k dollar setup and they transferred well and sounded great, im sure had i upgraded my cables first i would have held off on buying a 5k dollar pair of monitors.

so to sum up this rediculously long assanine speech that i have been rambling on with, my point is invest first into your cables, and your power. if your cables suck your sound will suck no matter what you have, and just as important if your power sucks, then your sound will suffer just as much. with all that i have said dont forget most importantly your performance is the most important factor, if you suck, it doesnt matter what you have... you will sound like sh*t.

if this helps please comment, if not.. well then tell me what i have left out.

[Steab]

The more expensive the cables, the better the sound.

NOT.



We've had enough of those silly threads.

[tampa]

True cabling is important, but it can't replace good equipment. I make my own cables so I always know what I have, plus it's tons cheaper.

[dysenterygary]

Ok, very weird coincidence. I just opened Redco in a tab to order a bunch of new cables and then came back and clicked on your thread to see what "newb" advice you were giving. Odd.

I can't agree more actually. The sound of your cable is so important and usually completely underrated. ESPECIALLY mic and instrument cables. Absolutely essential that you get good cables up front there. After the signal is amplified the differences are more slight, but definitely still there.

When I first bought some nice canare cables I didn't believe the "hype" of getting a good cable. I can still remember the first time I plugged it in on a snare mic w/my drummer and we were blown away. That was 3 years ago and none of my old mic cables have been plugged back in since.

[jmik]

+1 for making your own cables. If you get good with the iron you can get your resistance measurements with $10 in supplies below whatever you would be spending $60 on.

I know a damn good engineer (who taught me the art of soldering) that always keeps a bunch of his own cables in his car. He'll be doing a session somewhere, and when they can't figure out why everything sounds so flat, he substitutes the studio's cables for his own. This had led to him getting MUCHO work re-cabling entire studios, from the XLR's to the ELCO's.

I read a lot here about upgrades being incremental, and this is no exception. No magic cables, just better shielding and lower resistance. Seriously though, make your own cables, you will save MILLIONS. Of cents.

[cannibalbritney]

ok let me clarify as to differ as many wise ass comments as possible.

first off i never said the more expensive the cable the better, i simply used a known name/quality representation of cable since i purchased them myself.

now on to the serious side

I totally agree that making your own cables are waaay cheaper and im sure you can get amazing quality cabling / connectors etc. but the fact of the matter is, if you arent proficient your connection will sound terrible. also i highly doubt any newbie that just got his first interface thats trying to get his feet wet is really going to want to have another learning curve on his hands on how to make cabling when he barely knows how to use his program/ outboard gear etc.

plus there are people out there that are incapable of doing things like that, like myself... i do not have what you would call surgeons hands, and do not trust myself with a scolding soldering iron. due to a car accident a few years ago, my hands shake alot.

not to mention the time it takes to do/learn the task of making cables. most people have jobs, wives, kids... pain in the ass neighbors they have to bury for complaining about noises at 2 am... and just simply dont have the time to do it, and will gladly pay the extra money just so they can plug and play.

in any case i would like to keep this discussion going so that anyone that is looking for out of the box cables to buy *best cables* can find that in the discussion here.

[doncaparker]

I agree that cables and connectors are very important, but I think that, above Mogami cable and Neutrik connectors (or comparable brands), any gains in quality hit the point of diminishing returns.

I mostly build my own cables (using Mogami and Neutrik), but I have bought some ready-made ones, too. Performance Audio is where I get both ready-made and parts for building my own. I've heard Redco is good, too.

[theblue1]

Originally Posted by cannibalbritney

hey guys, I've been a slut of the gear for quite a while now, have been studying this forum as well as many others like the gospel always looking for that right sound etc. Since we are all gathered here for the same reasons I figured I might as well put in my 2 cents to anyone that wants to listen to it.

after many countless months of breaking my ass to get gear, to get a better sound I finally have come to the conclusions of breaking everything down to the basics. yes we all know that your interface has a great deal to do with your sound, so does your equipment and guitar/bass/drums/ mics etc. but its just not really in the budget of alot of people, and sometimes the only thing they can get is that lousy 99 dollar POS at the guitar center sale.

so after many years i have come to the conclusion that its all about your connections, and signal flow, ie: CABLES !

[...]

Yeah... wires.

The job they have is so difficult and there are so many variables. That's why you see a much wider variation in quality than unimportant pieces of the chain like mics, preamps, or inconsequentialities like monitors and room treatment.


Uh huh.


Look, it's a chain -- so every link in that chain is important. But some jobs are much easier and have far less performance variability than others. There is such a thing as a crappy cable with poorly soldered connectors or badly chosen insulation materials and there is such a thing as choosing the wrong type of cable for a specific application -- but the basic job of wire is relatively easy, almost infinitely more simple and straightforward -- not to mention easy to measure the quality of signal transmission over -- than most other elements in the modern recording chain. Wire is important, no question. But there are no magical, mysterious aspects to its performance.

[jmik]

Yeah soldering (and doing it well) takes time to learn, and probably isn't for everybody. It can be a helpful tool for repairs and making cabling but I wouldn't put it in the "Top 5 Things To Know To Make A Record" list. That said, if I wasn't soldering, I would have no problem spending the extra cheese on a good cable, OR having a friend make one. Run an entire session with nothing but Hosa's, then do the same with Mogami's and there will most definitely be a difference.

[theblue1]

Originally Posted by jMik

Yeah soldering (and doing it well) takes time to learn, and probably isn't for everybody. It can be a helpful tool for repairs and making cabling but I wouldn't put it in the "Top 5 Things To Know To Make A Record" list. That said, if I wasn't soldering, I would have no problem spending the extra cheese on a good cable, OR having a friend make one. Run an entire session with nothing but Hosa's, then do the same with Mogami's and there will most definitely be a difference.

Yeah... you'll be poorer.

Without getting into brand specifics, if the cable is the same class (conductor material, stranding, gauge), if the connectors are firmly connected and properly soldered, if the insulation is properly chosen to avoid electrostatic build-up releated microphonics, you are extremely unlikely to find any sort of significant and certainly not perceivable performance variation.

Now, if one wants to spend a little extra to buy a particularly trusted name brand, I don't see any problem with that as long as he's aware of the issues -- and actually has some assurance that the expensive spread he's shelling out for is, indeed, of appropriate quality. (For instance, the most expensive simple cables I ever bought were from a well-known, supposedly prosumer premium brand [rhymes with onster -- it was on sale] both went defective early on. I'll never buy that brand again, because it didn't even do as good as the same class (but much cheaper) cable from Radio Shack.

[jesseber]

Do Coat Hangers Sound As Good Monster Cables? - The Consumerist

[jmik]

Originally Posted by theblue1

Yeah... you'll be poorer.

I agree 100%, and that's why I make my own cables. But for those not able/wanting to do so, Hosa's and Monstergami's are quite different from each other. But you make a valid point, price is a huge (if not THE) factor for just about everyone.

Besides, Monsters have a lifetime warranty, you can use it as a chew toy and still get it replaced no questions asked.

That said, I've had a Radio Shack 1/8" to stereo RCA for years that refuses to die. It's like the "Christine" of cabling.

[David C.]

Cables always seem to work or not in my world. Some are microphonic after awhile and need to be tossed. I've made most of my own (mainly with Belden and Switchcraft parts), but I used to have really good luck with Whirlwind back when they were made in USA.

Speaker cables are all about the gauge period.

The poster above who mentioned performance audio, I just checked them out and they have some very good prices on Mogami which I've always wanted to check. I've got loads of ends laying around, may buy a bit of that wire and experiment to see if it's 'all that.'

And yeah, Monster is like Bose, all ads and no beef.

[pettersen]

what makes a good cable?
resistance value?
is 45Ohm/km good?
0,5mm².

[ivansc]

Belden cable is ultra reliable. I made some jack to jacks with belden and switchcraft that lasted over 25 years. Eventually, the dielectric quite literally crumbled away, but right up till that time they had performed great. Including one that got shut in the studio A door at Rockfield!!

Grow your own is obviously the best way to go IF you have the chops, but be warned - there is a lot of BS spouted by the "name" lead manufacturers.

And neutrik/Switchcraft are the best bang for the buck, plus Switchraft STILL does a lifetime warranty that they definitely honor.

[theblue1]

Originally Posted by jMik

I agree 100%, and that's why I make my own cables. But for those not able/wanting to do so, Hosa's and Monstergami's are quite different from each other. But you make a valid point, price is a huge (if not THE) factor for just about everyone.

Besides, Monsters have a lifetime warranty, you can use it as a chew toy and still get it replaced no questions asked.

That said, I've had a Radio Shack 1/8" to stereo RCA for years that refuses to die. It's like the "Christine" of cabling.

Yeah... no question that there can be differences in quality of construction (particularly connector quality and connection, which is really where the rubber hits the road, metaphorically speaking, the main place where ruggedness or lack really shows up).

But that's also a labor choke point and, these days, that job is quite likely done offshore, meaning that not only is the bulk cable mass produced and ordered from a catalog just like any other commodity electronic part, but that the critical assemblage is similarly out of the cable brander's direct control.