Mike Joly's MJE-K47 and MJE-K47D mods. How do they compare?

[MrCrowbar]

I'm already sold on getting a microphone based on Michael Joly's MJE-K47 capsule (OktavaMod - Shop). The mods all sound great compared to the classic mics but I can't decide what mic to get modded with it.

The complete attachment for SDC is attractive if you don't want to send in your microphone for modding, but it will not perform as well as if you sent in your mic for the premium electronics upgrade.

The Apex 460 won the Gearlsutz shootout, beating out the holy grails of tube mics.

The Rode NT1-A mod seems to be the most popular and likely with the best noise floor as Rode brags about it being the quietest mic out there.


How to chose? I don't have a mic to send in (plus shipping anything from Germany to the US is a nightmare...) so I want to buy the microphone to be modified in a US store and have it delivered right to Mr. Joly's secret (underground?) laboratory.

Right now I'm leaning against the Rode NT2-a with the MJE-K47D. I believe this could be the ultimate workhorse mic because of the selectable patterns, pads and bass roll-offs. I'm looking primarily for a mic for lead vocals and string instruments, but figure-8 (for MS guitar recordings) and omni patterns are great to have (I love the CAD M179 especially on non-carioid patterns).

Does the dual capsule mod really cost the same as the single capsule one? And does it sound much different than the single sided one that is heard on the shootouts? I'm wondering how the MJE-K47 based mics differ in terms of sound, application and technical details (mostly noise floor, electronics coloration and distortion). Maybe a shootout between the modded NT1a, MJE-K47 head (with SDC preamp), one mic with the dual capsule and the Apex 460?

[MoreSound]

Originally Posted by MrCrowbar

I'm already sold on getting a microphone based on Michael Joly's MJE-K47 capsule (OktavaMod - Shop). The mods all sound great compared to the classic mics but I can't decide what mic to get modded with it.

The complete attachment for SDC is attractive if you don't want to send in your microphone for modding, but it will not perform as well as if you sent in your mic for the premium electronics upgrade.

The Apex 460 won the Gearlsutz shootout, beating out the holy grails of tube mics.

The Rode NT1-A mod seems to be the most popular and likely with the best noise floor as Rode brags about it being the quietest mic out there.


How to chose? I don't have a mic to send in (plus shipping anything from Germany to the US is a nightmare...) so I want to buy the microphone to be modified in a US store and have it delivered right to Mr. Joly's secret (underground?) laboratory.

Right now I'm leaning against the Rode NT2-a with the MJE-K47D. I believe this could be the ultimate workhorse mic because of the selectable patterns, pads and bass roll-offs. I'm looking primarily for a mic for lead vocals and string instruments, but figure-8 (for MS guitar recordings) and omni patterns are great to have (I love the CAD M179 especially on non-carioid patterns).

Does the dual capsule mod really cost the same as the single capsule one? And does it sound much different than the single sided one that is heard on the shootouts? I'm wondering how the MJE-K47 based mics differ in terms of sound, application and technical details (mostly noise floor, electronics coloration and distortion). Maybe a shootout between the modded NT1a, MJE-K47 head (with SDC preamp), one mic with the dual capsule and the Apex 460?

Hey MR crowbar...We have had in our possession a Rode NT1a modified by Michael for 2 or 3 weeks now and it is our go to microphone for vocals.

I can't begin to tell you the difference the mod had made except to say WOW ~ we were able to do some recording with the mic then sent it out to get modded, then upon it's return we did the same recording to do a very close A/B test. With in a very short time we were able to hear and appreciate the up grade. It was like night and day!
Not to say that the rode sounded bad to begin with but after reviewing the separate recordings you can hear the beautiful difference.

[drBill]

"The complete attachment for SDC is attractive if you don't want to send in your microphone for modding, but it will not perform as well as if you sent in your mic for the premium electronics upgrade."

That is not true. This is nothing against the NT1a, but IMO (and keep in mind, it's my opinion not gospel), the modded SDC with a K47H head performs BETTER than a NT1a for my purposes. (NOT voiceover)

I've listened and used all those mics. The 460 is different being a tube mic, but when it comes to the NT1a vs. K47H with SDC, I'd choose the K47H easily. I prefer it's big and open sound and I like the top end on it better than the NT1a. (Speaking of all mics with MJE K47's in them.)

All that said, I wouldn't mind having a NT1a modded if I had one, but I'd certainly go the K47H route first given I needed to make a purchase.

I think Michael sells the SDC bodies, so being in Germany, you don't even have to locate a donor mic first.

Good luck.

bp

[MoreSound]

Forgot to mention, after hearing Michaels work we looked around the studio to find four other microphones that he modifies they will be going out soon!

[MrCrowbar]

Originally Posted by drBill

[I][COLOR="Blue"]That is not true. This is nothing against the NT1a, but IMO (and keep in mind, it's my opinion not gospel), the modded SDC with a K47H head performs BETTER than a NT1a for my purposes. (NOT voiceover)

[...]

All that said, I wouldn't mind having a NT1a modded if I had one, but I'd certainly go the K47H route first given I needed to make a purchase.

I think Michael sells the SDC bodies, so being in Germany, you don't even have to locate a donor mic first.

Interesting. I assume you ordered it with the "premium electronics" on the SDC? I was blown away by the sound of that combination in this video: YouTube - The Deli - Oktava Mod MJE-K47H Review

This is exactly why I started this thread, I'm interested in the differences between the different options, all using the same capsule. Mike does indeed offer to include the SDC body for a reasonable price for european customers.

[drBill]

Originally Posted by MrCrowbar

Interesting. I assume you ordered it with the "premium electronics" on the SDC?

The versions I used did have the premium electronics done to nady and mxl SDC bodies.

If you want to hear my thoughts on the 47H, you can hear them here on michael's site : Bill's thoughts

Honestly, I don't think you can find a better FET LDC if you're looking for a big sounding mid-focused mic.

I tried many different mics with the MJE-K47 capsule, and they all sound a bit different, but have "that" sound. The NT1a is more focused in the upper mids. The K47H is bigger sounding overall, larger bottom, and a bit more diffuse in the upper mids. The tube mics, different still.

[MrCrowbar]

Originally Posted by drBill

The versions I used did have the premium electronics done to nady and mxl SDC bodies.

If you want to hear my thoughts on the 47H, you can hear them here on michael's site : Bill's thoughts

Honestly, I don't think you can find a better FET LDC if you're looking for a big sounding mid-focused mic.

Oh wow, that's you. I was wondering where I read "Mindseye" before.

I listened to those sound samples many a time. Looks like the K47H is for me then. I figured there must be a reason why there's also mods for the much more expensive NT1a. :-)

Thank so so much for the insight!

[drBill]

Originally Posted by MrCrowbar

I figured there must be a reason why there's also mods for the much more expensive NT1a. :-)

Don't get me wrong, I'm not dissing the modded NT1a. The voiceover guys REALLY seem to love that one. I just found that the K47H fit into my perspective better. I really think it's a special mic. With either one, I don't think you can go wrong. But the K47H is first on my order list. thumbsup

[MrCrowbar]

Originally Posted by drBill

Don't get me wrong, I'm not dissing the modded NT1a. The voiceover guys REALLY seem to love that one. I just found that the K47H fit into my perspective better. I really think it's a special mic. With either one, I don't think you can go wrong. But the K47H is first on my order list. thumbsup

Well, you seem to have done your research and possibly tried out a few mics based around that capsule, so I trust your judgement. I'll be using the mic for vocals mostly but also as a workhorse mic wherever my other ones (CAD M179, Rode NT3, not yet modded Oktava MK012) don't deliver as nicely. I'm not doing voiceover a lot (my voice is bad for that stuff) and my regular voiceover person works just fine with the M179 (see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPdtc1j5bsY).

The K47H is less expensive than the other options (including purchasing the mic to be modded and overseas shipping). I might just get two of them and call it a day. :-)

[MoreSound]

Originally Posted by drBill

Don't get me wrong, I'm not dissing the modded NT1a. The voiceover guys REALLY seem to love that one. I just found that the K47H fit into my perspective better. I really think it's a special mic. With either one, I don't think you can go wrong. But the K47H is first on my order list. thumbsup

Bill is this (K47H) an interchangeable capsule head or is a fixed to a SDC body and must stay put?

[MrCrowbar]

Originally Posted by MoreSound

Bill is this (K47H) an interchangeable capsule head or is a fixed to a SDC body and must stay put?

You screw off the head off the small condenser mic's body and screw on the MJE-K47H. It's recommended you upgrade the body's electronics though to get the most of the K47H and it will also improve the original small condenser capsule sound.

More info here:
OktavaMod - Shop

[drBill]

Yeah, like crowbar said, it's all modular. You end up with a LDC and a SDC mic. Although, I must say that the 603/CM90 is not my favorite SDC mic. It still has some uses though....

Ultimately, you need :

- the MJE-K47H capsulehead and that's around $350 or so.
- Then you need a MXL 603 or Nady CM90 - that will run you around $50 if you don't have one laying around.
- Then you need to have the electronics modded in the SDC body. That runs around $90 or so.

So for under $500, you have a great LDC mic, and have also improved your SDC mic as well. Pretty versatile, and again, it's my favorite new LDC FET mic at the moment. thumbsup

[MoreSound]

Thanks crowbar and Bill.
I live about 45 minutes from Michael so I'll be dropping my 603s off to him as I did with my NT1a.
And I must admit that we just love the out come of the Rode.

[MrCrowbar]

Originally Posted by MoreSound

Thanks crowbar and Bill.
I live about 45 minutes from Michael so I'll be dropping my 603s off to him as I did with my NT1a.
And I must admit that we just love the out come of the Rode.

Let us know how both compare and what mic you prefer for which application.

[MrCrowbar]

Listening to drBills samples of the K47H and NT1a I noticed that the K47H consistently doesn't have the silky smooth S sounds that the U87 has. I can imagine the vocalist tends to favor the U87 because that's what they're used to and instinctively "aim" the "S" sounds towards that mic (or whatever mic he heard on the headphones). I know how crucial mic placement is for vocals and how a great vocalist can sound terrible on a 87 because of poor mic technique, i.e. directing the airflow of the sibilant noises away from the mic capsule.

On the NT1a vs. U87 "Amazing Grace" and "She sells seashells" samples (OktavaMod - Shop) I really can't tell which is which, both have a similarly smooth, yet slightly different S sound.

On the picture "Oren Waters testing the OktavaMod'd NT1a and other Joly mics against a Neumann U 87", I spot an MJE47H, a NT1a, two Oktava 219 and a U87. Is there any way we can download the sound samples from those mics, maybe keeping the MJE-K47 based mics and the U87 anonymous?

PS: Any word about the K47H for the MK012? I re-read all the threads about the MJE-K47 and Michael Joly wrote "this spring" somewhere. Having my pair of MK012 modded and getting an awesome LDC head in the same shipment would just be perfect.

[Michael_Joly]

Dr. Bill has library of over 300 clips he produced from the MJE LA sessions last month. I think he'll be releasing more of these recordings as his schedule permits. A specific request like yours helps us determine what comparisons folks are interested in hearing, so thanks for that.

[drBill]

Originally Posted by MrCrowbar

I noticed that the K47H consistently doesn't have the silky smooth S sounds that the U87 has.

I can assure you that that silky smooth "ssss" from Oren comes from him MOUTH and not any mic. That said, the U87 was more in the sweet spot, and what he was aiming at I believe.

Originally Posted by MrCrowbar

I can imagine the vocalist tends to favor the U87 because that's what they're used to and instinctively "aim" the "S" sounds towards that mic

The U87 was more in the sweet spot, and what he was aiming at I believe.

Originally Posted by MrCrowbar

both have a similarly smooth, yet slightly different S sound.

IMO that is true. With the NT1a having a slightly brighter sound, and the K47H sounding larger. Again, we're not talking huge differences here, but definable small increments.

[MrCrowbar]

Originally Posted by Michael_Joly

Dr. Bill has library of over 300 clips he produced from the MJE LA sessions last month. I think he'll be releasing more of these recordings as his schedule permits. A specific request like yours helps us determine what comparisons folks are interested in hearing, so thanks for that.

I'd gladly volunteer to catalogue and review all the material from low-enders point of view.

I have done lots of A/B tests in a similar fashion (recording same source with all mics at once, then doing it again but with carefully positioning each mic to get the best performance out of each one). One mic might sound outstanding straight on a guitar's 12th fret, whereas the other one sounds perfect on the 10th at a slight angle. I then randomized the file names of the clips (there's neat software for that) and buried the mic-filename correspondence file in a password protected RAR file I sent to my fellow audio-guy. After a week or so we worked the recordings into a little production and looked for the clip that was easiest to fit in the mix and just sounded "right".

The bad thing is that after a while, you just know your own mics too well and can tell them apart just like that. I can identify them all by listening to the noise floor, even the matched MK012. Makes objective comparisons really hard. :-)

[MrCrowbar]

Originally Posted by drBill

The U87 was more in the sweet spot, and what he was aiming at I believe.

That's reassuring, thanks. I'm actually "taking lessons" from my flatmate who is a logopaedic and teaches people to pronounce stuff. It's incredible how many ways there are to mouth an S sound. I'm currently working on my "whistling S" (like thisss: YouTube - Herbert the pervert - "I Know what boys Like"), it's fun and makes teenagers cry (18 kHz).

Originally Posted by drBill

IMO that is true. With the NT1a having a slightly brighter sound, and the K47H sounding larger. Again, we're not talking huge differences here, but definable small increments.

Fair enough. Guess the difference will be much smaller on my crappy preamps so I'll either just take the cheaper variant or wait for the K47H version for the MK012.

I feel I have tormented you two enough with my endless questions and will (try to) stop inquiring about minuscule details until I'm about to click the "checkout" button on the OktavaMod store. Thank you guys (Bill and Mike) so much for all the info. I have more and more people in my area waiting on me to purchase a MJE-K47 based mic before they're committing to buying theirs.

[drBill]

Originally Posted by MrCrowbar

I feel I have tormented you two enough with my endless questions and will (try to) stop inquiring about minuscule details

Questions are fine. I've got no problem with it. I don't know about Michael. Miniscule details are what judging mics is all about.

Ultimately, choosing and A/B-ing mics does weigh me down a bit though. I like to work fast. Very fast. I have a generalized idea - a "portrait" if you will - of each mic I use, and if the application and the portrait match, that's what I put up. Kind of like a microphone dating service. I don't spend a lot of time A/B-ing during real sessions. Kills the talent and the groove.

[Karloff70]

Originally Posted by drBill

I have a generalized idea - a "portrait" if you will - of each mic I use, and if the application and the portrait match, that's what I put up.

Nicely put! That's how it works in real time. And that portrait is merely a stencil after having listened to files on the net (although a stencil still says stuff!) and only becomes a portrait once you've had it up some different pres and played with positioning to determine reach, proximity and such.....

[drBill]

Originally Posted by Karloff70

Nicely put! That's how it works in real time. And that portrait is merely a stencil after having listened to files on the net (although a stencil still says stuff!) and only becomes a portrait once you've had it up some different pres and played with positioning to determine reach, proximity and such.....

LOL One thing I forgot......

Just like any dating service, sometimes it's long-term magic, sometimes it's a torrid love affair destined for burnout, and other times it's WWIII right out of the gate.



Use drBill's microphone dating service at your own risk.

[Karloff70]

Originally Posted by drBill

LOL One thing I forgot......

Just like any dating service, sometimes it's long-term magic, sometimes it's a torrid love affair destined for burnout, and other times it's WWIII right out of the gate.



Use drBill's microphone dating service at your own risk.

So, with this dating service....does one get their money back when the positive impression on the net doesn't result in a positive 'proximity' scenario when actually meeting?

[drBill]

Originally Posted by Karloff70

So, with this dating service....does one get their money back when the positive impression on the net doesn't result in a positive 'proximity' scenario when actually meeting?

Yeah, you get back what you paid for it on the internet - exactly ZERO. thumbsup

But then again, it might be everlasting love...... I believe in love and a higher power, so I keep putting up those mics.....

You take your chances.

[Karloff70]

Originally Posted by drBill

BR: But then again, it might be everlasting love...... CH: I believe in love and a higher power, so I keep putting up those mics.....You take your chances.

There ya go....a chorus for JayZ's next one.....lol

[MrCrowbar]

Originally Posted by drBill

Use drBill's microphone dating service at your own risk.

Be safe, always use a cond... pop filter.

[xj32]

Anyone have the Blue Bird mod done yet? Any comments on how it changed the sound?

I always like the open, clarity, starkness of the Blue Bird, especially for its price. What does the Jolly mod ad or take away?

XJ

[Michael_Joly]

This mod does two things - replaces the HF peaked K67-type capsule (+8dB@8kHz) feeding the flat-response circuit with my midrange-focused MJE-K47 capsule (subtle presence mound in the 3-5kHz range, flat top end). This reduces sibilance and re-voices the mic toward a more classic, "Neumann-esque" mid-focused sound.

Next, the headbasket is modified to reduce internal, parallel reflections between the flat grille and diaphragm. This removes a layer of HF coloration and makes the sound more open.

[MrCrowbar]

Do I spot an MJE K47H in that newest Twintapes video? That's awesome!



(Appears at 2:13 and later again)

That's also a very interesting way to mic an acoustic guitar; SDC on the bridge, large dynamic on the middle of the neck (WTF!?) but it totally works. The K47H has that unique design that just looks great. Damn, I need to get mine soon, it's killing me!

[drBill]

Sho nuff....sweet.

Good eye crowbar. Er, sorry, MrCrowbar......


That poor RE20 looks like it's getting a time out - drooping down, dejected, embarassed and facing the corner in defeat. lol