I need a pair (of overheads, that is)

[Seamus]

There's a similar thread in the high end forum but my daddy didn't leave me with no money. I've a got a room that's 23x12x9 in which I record loud rock and roll and occasionally loud country. I'm looking for a good pair of drum overhead mic's as my next improvement. Right now, I use what ever's left over, Oktava's 012's or CS1000 (I hate these mic's) with results that range from barely acceptable to decent, depending on placement and luck. Any suggestions for moving on to something dedicated to this purpose? Thanks.

[tINY]

SM81, SP-C4, Kel HM-1, AT 2020....

With that low ceiling, you could get some PZMs and tape them there, too



-tINY

[everybody's x]

I second the PZMs try some MXl 990's at $100 a pair thumbsup

[Harley-OIART]

Audio Technica 2020's might be a good starting point.
(I own some MXL990's and I personally enjoy the AT2020 better for bottom budget overheads.)

A good Move Might be to save $$$ and grab 2 Sennheiser MD421's. Or the 521's for a few $$$ less, You could at least use them in a many other applications as well as a good overhead image.

Kind Regards,
Scott

[Enzo Polotso]

what don't you like about the Oktavas? They're usually the first suggestion for low cost overheads and in my experience they've sounded great on rock overheads.

[Seamus]

Originally Posted by Enzo Polotso

what don't you like about the Oktavas? They're usually the first suggestion for low cost overheads and in my experience they've sounded great on rock overheads.

What I don't like about the Oktava is that I only have one 012 and I do like it a lot. I can't stand the CS1000. I was interested in the AT2020's but am willing to spend more to get more. What's that one store that pre-tests all his Oktava's? Maybe I will go that route.

[ozraves]

Get a pair of CAD M179 mics if you can afford it. Otherwise, just get another MK012.

[warhead]

Originally Posted by ozraves

Get a pair of CAD M179 mics if you can afford it. Otherwise, just get another MK012.

Waiter, check please.

(Tiny's SP C4 recommendation is good too)

War

[everybody's x]

Originally Posted by warhead

Waiter, check please.


War

War LOVES these things I need to check them out

[Musiclab]

dont cheap out on overheads, get some good mics, so much of the tone of the kit is in the overheads. Earthworks are nice, KM84's/184's. Some people use LDC's. For now use the best of what you have there.

[everybody's x]

Lou is right, surround the kit with 14 U67s, then crank up the LOW END

[MSR74]

I would look into the Studio Projects C4. for the price they can't be beaten abd they have a clear, tight, natural sound.

Mickey

[MSR74]

I would even roccomen the C4's with two VTB-1 Preamps because of their low noise and options in sound with the adjustable tube setting. Get a couple of or stereov optical compressor or limiter (either ART TCS or ART PRO VLA, or two Samson C-com Opti's). I have used these on vocals with good sounding success. You probably get a bit more with the Pro VLA...

Mcikey

[PaRaNoId]

Rode Nt1-a are the bomb on OH, vocal, and room mic duty. Clean as an SSL signal path, built to exacting specs, and LOOK expensive. Very usable proximity effect (VOX/room) and super low noise.
At $400 a pair u can't beat them IMO.

other ideas-
MXL 603s (kinda omni, kinda trashy around 9k; perfect in some situations)
Groove tubes gt-33 (reduced HF response, but very impressive and realistic)
SP B3 (silky high-end, good S/N, multiple patterns)

BTW: there is no such thing as luck... What is your average placement? What are your main problems w/ the MC012s? What is your goal as far as what u r using the OH's for? Cymbal choice?

My point is that mics may not be yo problem..... Hit me back

[DeadPoet]

Originally Posted by PaRaNoId

Rode Nt1-a are the bomb on OH, vocal, and room mic duty. Clean as an SSL signal path, built to exacting specs, and LOOK expensive. Very usable proximity effect (VOX/room) and super low noise.
At $400 a pair u can't beat them IMO.

I have the NT-1's (not 'a') and i don't really like 'em, they're my 'oh my, all the other/better mics are in use - guess i'll have to use these'



Herwig

[dobber]

I 3rd or 4th (or whatever number) the additional 012. If you are going cheap then just stay with what you got. If you just want an extra pair of mics for cheap then get the CADs, 2020s, or the countless other cheap mics out. What about the slew of chinese ribbons? Those are pretty loud rock n rollish. By the way, what kind of loud rock?

[dntknowsht]

Originally Posted by warhead

Waiter, check please.

(Tiny's SP C4 recommendation is good too)

War

War, what pattern setting do you use for the m179's on overheads?

[Brian Middleton]

If you can find a pair of used AT 4040's, these are good for drum overheads too...new they're $300 each, but you can find them for half that, or a little more, used. Nice bright but clean highs.

I like the MXL 603's OK for acoustic guitar and a few other things but I find they don't work for me on overheads or anything involving cymbals--that "kinda trashy around 9K" thing is right on the money; doesn't seem to affect acoustic guitar as much, but it makes cymbals washed-out and sandpapery.

Thumbs-up on the ceiling-mounted PZM idea, BTW; I had a single Crown PZM around for a while and used it that way for a mono overhead and it sounded great--very smooth, almost fluffy top end, a little like a poor man's Earthworks QTC-1.

[Seamus]

Originally Posted by PaRaNoId

BTW: there is no such thing as luck... What is your average placement? What are your main problems w/ the MC012s? What is your goal as far as what u r using the OH's for? Cymbal choice?

My point is that mics may not be yo problem..... Hit me back

Thanks for the suggestions. I have an NT-1 which just collects dust. Too thin sounding, too much almost shrill high end. But I've only used it on vocals so far.

I have NO problem with the MC012, just bad sentence structure. What I was trying to say was that I can't stand the CS1000, not both the 012 and the CS... All in all, I'm thinking of getting another 012 for a pair of them on overs. I actually do like these mic's quite a bit. As far as my "goal" for overs, I want a natural cohesive drum sound that fits well inside my mixes, not each drum piece occupying a different corner of the globe and stripped and isolated. Ick! I want to use the kick and snare mic's for slight accent and balance, not primary sources. Again, I like loud, garage-y, overdriven rock and country played in a similar vein. I like the instruments to be a parts of a sum, not parts in their own equations.

[Seamus]

Originally Posted by APOHStudios

"range from barely acceptable to decent, depending on placement and luck"

Placement is Crucial! There is no one mike that is the "Be All to End All". Every mike will be affected placement! I could recommend many different mikes to use in your situation, but it will do you no good. If you do not place it in the right place to capture the sound you are looking for, you will be wasting both your time and money. The Earthworks mikes are unbelievably accurate but if you do not take care in where they are placed, you will have the same results. This is true for any mike! I am not trying to "fry" you or anyone else, but I am tired of hearing how people are placing a higher emphasis on the equipment over skill and experience. It is not the equipment that makes the engineer. A good engineer can make so-so equipment sound good, but a bad engineer can make excellent equipment suck.

Doc

No fry taken. I really haven't explained my situation well. My new room has only been up and running for a few months. It's taken me time to find out what will and won't work in it. I'm recording four different drummers often, each with different strengths and weakenesses, and different kits. My instincts are getting pretty sharp for the overheads after being hit or miss at the beginning. I'm liking the sounds so much that I am almost ONLY using the overheads for the drums in my mixes. Now I'm just looking for a pair of mic's that won't break the bank and I don't need (or even want) anything considered "state of the art". I just want opinions on decent, reliable overhead mic's that will that- minus all the marketing bs- might be worth more than their pricetag suggests.

[warhead]

Originally Posted by dntknowsht

War, what pattern setting do you use for the m179's on overheads?

Typically cardioid or wide cardioid in my room.

War

[AlexLakis]

I'll second the MXLs, the 990s and the 603s, (I'll use the 603s for overheads and the 990s for room mics). For the price, they are hard to beat. Brian, your "trashy" comment about the 603s is right on, they do add some grit to around 9K, I like it for rock cymbals. I haven't tried them for acoustic guitar, as I have SM81s, and they work just fine.

[Nu-tra]

I'm borrowing them peluso small diaphragm mics and they are amazing for overheads... going through the seventh circle J99 preamps

[recky]

I have recently recorded drums with a pair of Oktava MK-012s and a pair of Elations (slightly more expensive), and in both cases I only added a bit of close-mic'ed kick and snare for extra impact. The overall sound of these cheap Russian mics was really amazing. Balance them well, and they're almost high-end.

In fact, I liked the Oktavas so much that I had the preamp circuitry upgraded with a custom preamp made by Swedish company Line Audio. It just gives better headroom, less self-noise and does the brilliant Oktava capsule justice.

If you consider getting a second Oktava, beware of the Chinese-made ones! There are two flavours of MK-012s now, due to legal issues between the Russian manufacturer and the British distributor. Only the Russian made ones have that sound!

Recky

[Empire 21 Music]

Coles are great and they are mid priced.

[pixelhead]

I just cut drums using the AT2020's for overs and rooms. I am very impressed they sounded great. For 100 bucks each I wanted them to suck but they work great.

[Brian Middleton]

Originally Posted by Empire 21 Music

Coles are great and they are mid priced.

I wouldn't call $2500/pair "mid priced," especially not for the Low End Theory forum.