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Plug Ins? We don't need no stinking plug ins.
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nycbeat
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#1
17th March 2010
Old 17th March 2010
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Plug Ins? We don't need no stinking plug ins.

I hope I'm not committing a mortal sin by bringing up this subject, but don't we really spend way too much time obsessing over gear, and too little time learning and practicing our craft?

Prehistoric Riverbed and Pro Tools EQ III
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17th March 2010
Old 17th March 2010
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Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by nycbeat View Post
I hope I'm not committing a mortal sin by bringing up this subject, but don't we really spend way too much time obsessing over gear, and too little time learning and practicing our craft?

Prehistoric Riverbed and Pro Tools EQ III
you are committing a sin.
spending too much time with gear is our craft.
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17th March 2010
Old 17th March 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubai View Post
you are committing a sin.
spending too much time with gear is our craft.
I prefer crafting sins with my gear.
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17th March 2010
Old 17th March 2010
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I thought that was a great article. I've recently done something similar...paired down to the essentials, keeping only a few pieces of my favorite (low-end) analog gear. Personally, I'm loving it. More creativity and fewer options to get tweaky with.

Frank
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nycbeat
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17th March 2010
Old 17th March 2010
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Cool Sin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubai View Post
you are committing a sin.
spending too much time with gear is our craft.
I am a sinner. Evil thoughts, GET OUT.
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17th March 2010
Old 17th March 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nycbeat View Post
I hope I'm not committing a mortal sin by bringing up this subject, but don't we really spend way too much time obsessing over gear, and too little time learning and practicing our craft?

Prehistoric Riverbed and Pro Tools EQ III
This seems to be a common theme these days. Is it the economy?
#7
17th March 2010
Old 17th March 2010
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Awesome little written piece. Lately I've been limiting myself (much like that guy) to using the Digi plugins. I too find the more options I have the less I get done. I'm too busy hooking stuff up and doing "shoot-outs" between this gear or that gear to actual get around to writing and recording music.
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17th March 2010
Old 17th March 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nycbeat View Post
I hope I'm not committing a mortal sin by bringing up this subject, but don't we really spend way too much time obsessing over gear, and too little time learning and practicing our craft?

Prehistoric Riverbed and Pro Tools EQ III
I believe that many of us do.....guess we love it.

Not me, though. I use Digi3 on almost every track. I bought Waves Gold years ago and that's it.

Find the tools you like and start making music.
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17th March 2010
Old 17th March 2010
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Interesting. One of the reasons I'm upgrading to Sonar 8.5 from HS is for the plugs, so I don't have to use so many outside fx. Trying to simplify...
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17th March 2010
Old 17th March 2010
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Trying to simplify...
Yup.

Lots of tracks these days actually have no plugs at all. I like to get it happening on the way in.
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18th March 2010
Old 18th March 2010
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Try Harrison mixbus ;-)
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18th March 2010
Old 18th March 2010
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Mid/Side EQ possible?

Thanks for all the feedback on my post :: Prehistoric Riverbed and Pro Tools EQ III « Peter Malick

I've been further contemplating my proposition, that with a little creativity and time, you can create any plug in using your free EQ, Comp, Verb, and Delay in Pro Tools.

What about a Mid/Side EQ? I have some thoughts on how it might be accomplished, but is there anyone out there whose created a functioning Mid/Side by using their DAW and instantiations of a basic EQ?
#13
18th March 2010
Old 18th March 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darm View Post
Try Harrison mixbus ;-)



Simplifying the mixing process was one of the main criteria / goals during the design of mixbus.

Gary Thielman
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18th March 2010
Old 18th March 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Thielman View Post


Simplifying the mixing process was one of the main criteria / goals during the design of mixbus.

Gary Thielman
Harrison Consoles
I still have some problems with figuring out Ardour for editing and automation, I would love a spring reverb or a plate reverb added right on one of the busses) Or maybe an echo room?
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19th March 2010
Old 19th March 2010
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Pat Robertson and Music Production

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21st March 2010
Old 21st March 2010
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I'm in your boat. I use Logic 9 which is pretty full featured on its own, the compressor is bad on its default settings, but once you fiddle around with the sidechain settings it actually gets very versatile. I'm a fan of just copying tracks, do some bold processing on those and feed that into the original track's compressors (yes, I usually have one for the odd peaks and one for fattening up).

The only 3rd party plugs I use are Addictive Drums (great for sketching drums, making click tracks), Massey Tapehead Medium (free) and the BlueCat Analyser (using it much less on Logic 9, the Logic EQ's analyzer gor much more precise and usable there). I used to have lots of plugs in the old days and still like them in protools, just because there's less settings to fiddle around with than the Pro Tools stuff.
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21st March 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nycbeat View Post
I am a sinner. Evil thoughts, GET OUT.
Did it work?
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21st March 2010
Old 21st March 2010
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I find that going back to basics once every few years lets you use your additional plugins as they were DESIGNED - to add a new spice to things or get a different sound.

Once your interesting plugins become your go-to plugins, you've lost that interesting factor that made you buy them in the first place.
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22nd March 2010
Old 22nd March 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nycbeat View Post
What about a Mid/Side EQ? I have some thoughts on how it might be accomplished, but is there anyone out there whose created a functioning Mid/Side by using their DAW and instantiations of a basic EQ?
After looking at this paper, I think I know how I would do it, given flexible enough routing in the DAW:

http://www.bluecataudio.com//Vault/D...Processing.pdf

1. First have to create M & S signals from the stereo
- Create a mono signal (easy), and a flipped phase mono signal (also easy)
- Split the stereo signal into L ch mono, R ch mono (have to watch pan law here...)
- Add the flipped phase mono to the L mono ch and R mono ch
- Sum the L mono ch and R mono ch, and you now have your S signal

2. Stick eqs on your M ch and S ch

3. Send the eq'ed M and S ch outputs to your M/S decoder.

Still in the theoretical space - haven't tried it. Is that what you were thinking?

js
#20
22nd March 2010
Old 22nd March 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nycbeat View Post
Thanks for all the feedback on my post :: Prehistoric Riverbed and Pro Tools EQ III « Peter Malick

I've been further contemplating my proposition, that with a little creativity and time, you can create any plug in using your free EQ, Comp, Verb, and Delay in Pro Tools.

What about a Mid/Side EQ? I have some thoughts on how it might be accomplished, but is there anyone out there whose created a functioning Mid/Side by using their DAW and instantiations of a basic EQ?

Ah well, this is where Tracktion's effect racks signal routing really shines as you can come up with all sorts of wiring diagrams to do exactly what you state, connect basic fx to make other fx.

Unfortunately, Tracktion's star is falling. It's signal routing is without peer, but overall, seems Mackie isn't keeping it up to date in some areas, and well, I think folks don't like it because it doesn't "look like what the big boys use".
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22nd March 2010
Old 22nd March 2010
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22nd March 2010
Old 22nd March 2010
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The general theme of this topic is spot on. I think there may be a revolution coming with the return to "Real music".
In other words, use the plugins, but to advance the sound surgically rather than disguise the failings of the recording.
I did a quick song recording for a band recently and used a fair amount of plugins over the 12 tracks. 4 on the vocals alone for example, but nothing strong.
Here's what one reviewer on soundclick had to say....
room8 » Blog Archive » This Modern Empire - Love is the New Black
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22nd March 2010
Old 22nd March 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by js1 View Post
After looking at this paper, I think I know how I would do it, given flexible enough routing in the DAW:

http://www.bluecataudio.com//Vault/D...Processing.pdf

1. First have to create M & S signals from the stereo
- Create a mono signal (easy), and a flipped phase mono signal (also easy)
- Split the stereo signal into L ch mono, R ch mono (have to watch pan law here...)
- Add the flipped phase mono to the L mono ch and R mono ch
- Sum the L mono ch and R mono ch, and you now have your S signal

2. Stick eqs on your M ch and S ch

3. Send the eq'ed M and S ch outputs to your M/S decoder.

Still in the theoretical space - haven't tried it. Is that what you were thinking?

js
Yes! I actually hadn't thought it through that far, but theoretically it should work. Now, to find the time to put it in practice.

If we take this theory over to the High End Forum, think there would be someone who's experimented with it?

Thanks for your post.
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23rd March 2010
Old 23rd March 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by js1 View Post
After looking at this paper, I think I know how I would do it, given flexible enough routing in the DAW:

http://www.bluecataudio.com//Vault/D...Processing.pdf

1. First have to create M & S signals from the stereo
- Create a mono signal (easy), and a flipped phase mono signal (also easy)
- Split the stereo signal into L ch mono, R ch mono (have to watch pan law here...)
- Add the flipped phase mono to the L mono ch and R mono ch
- Sum the L mono ch and R mono ch, and you now have your S signal

2. Stick eqs on your M ch and S ch

3. Send the eq'ed M and S ch outputs to your M/S decoder.

Still in the theoretical space - haven't tried it. Is that what you were thinking?

js
Been doing this for q while now when the M/S matrix plugin (logic) didn't cut it and I wanted to EQ or compress the mid and side separately. Usually for the side channel, I just clone the track, flip the phase on the copy, pan those tracks left and right and bounce it to a new track. Sounds complicated but It's done in less than 10 seconds when using key commands (keyboard shortcuts). Automating the side channel is fun too.

One of my mastering guys loves to split the stereo signal into Mid Side and mess around with the Side channel. Simple things like a low cut on the side channel will such the stereo out of the kick drum and bass and clears up your low end tremendously.
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