Live sound advice...

[cptnhook]

We're looking to add a signal processor to our set up. We're running an A&H mixwizard board with a dbx166 across the 2-bus, and qsc k12's as mains and monitors. This is for a mobile house of worship.

We're considering whether to get an EQ for the 2-bus, a comp/limiter for the 2-bus, and/or a comp/limiter for the main vocal(s).

Our room seats about 250. It's pretty boomy, and we have issues with the low-mids muddying things up a bit. So we're considering an EQ across the 2-bus to address this issue.

The dbx166 is ok. But it would be great to have a nice compressor or limiter to help accentuate the 'breathy', emo vocals of our band. e.g., to help get more of that 'produced' sound.

Budget-wise, we're looking at the $500 to $1000 range. I'd prefer going with one prosumer/pro-level unit rather than multiple entry level units, but if you have suggestions for addressing all the issues above within the budget, I'm all ears.

I'd appreciate any input. thanks!

[Darm]

get a rane eq, and a phonic paa3, that plus a proper speaker placement can improve a lot.
I'd also use the compressor on vocals only, not on the 2bus

[toneguru]

Get a Klark Teknik third octave stereo EQ. I have used the Rane regularly at a house gig and the KT for ten years at another house gig and the KT is far better. I see KT EQ's selling used at great prices these days.

I would certainly get the EQ before the compressor.

note: there was another stereo third octave that I use to use a lot that was real good. The name excapes me but it started with an A (not Alesis or Apogee)... darn senile brain... any slutz know what I am talkin bout?

[danno812]

Originally Posted by toneguru

note: there was another stereo third octave that I use to use a lot that was real good. The name excapes me but it started with an A (not Alesis or Apogee)... darn senile brain... any slutz know what I am talkin bout?

Probably an Ashly. They're were great back in my live sound days.

Dan






Voice Talent :: ProComm Studio Services - Voice overs with male & female voice talent

[rty5150]

i love my dbx driverack PA. it is a great room fixer. with that and using the 166 inserted into the main vocal channels will yield for really good results.

[Konketsu]

If your budget can be stretched up to about 1500 or so, I'd really recommend the Ashly Protéa 4.24G because it'll let you eq/limit your mains plus two channels of monitor as well. I use one on a regular basis in a venue a little bit larger than yours (400 person cap.) and the only complaint that I have against it is that the damn screen is too bright. Nothing a bit of blue LX gel doesn't fix, but ouch on the retinas.

It sounds great, and I really like that I can restore the room preset with a single button push after a road FOH has messed around with it.

If your budget is pretty much fixed, you could do a lot worse than the DBX driverack mentioned earlier. Another venue I work in has one (Driverack PX) and I can't complain about how it sounds. the interface is more fiddly than the Ashly in use and the display is tiny, but if "set and forget" is what you are looking for it shouldn't present too much of a problem. It also has a neat room analysis function built in which may interest you.

[GZsound]

On a budget, the DBX dual 31 band EQ is a great unit.

I would not put a compressor on the outputs normally, but a dual 31 band EQ is pretty much standard.

[Darm]

Originally Posted by toneguru

Get a Klark Teknik third octave stereo EQ. I have used the Rane regularly at a house gig and the KT for ten years at another house gig and the KT is far better. I see KT EQ's selling used at great prices these days.

I would certainly get the EQ before the compressor.

note: there was another stereo third octave that I use to use a lot that was real good. The name excapes me but it started with an A (not Alesis or Apogee)... darn senile brain... any slutz know what I am talkin bout?

I always thought that KT eq's were a lot more expensive then Rane stuff...
Probably should check out the used ones too, thanks for the tip!

[admench]

Klark Teknik or BSS 31 band EQ will let you clean up the sound. That is the first thing you should invest in...

[FuzzyWuzzy]

My 2 cents is don't futz around with a GEQ or any of that, go for some kind of digital signal processor (dbx driverack or ashly mentioned earlier, BSS omnidirve, or XTA). Those units have the EQ built in along with system limiting (for protection), and overall delay for system time aligning. There are some good units out there, and finding a good used one can stretch your dollar!! Do some research and rather than compromise on something that works right now, get something that gives your system room to grow when it needs to. Check out ebay or Soundbroker.com for some good used deals.

[cptnhook]

Thanks for the input everyone. The driverack looks interesting, and I'll check out the KT/Rane/Ashley units.

Come to think of it, we'll need something to tame the low-mids on the (two mono) monitors as well. I'll look into a driverack or similar for the mains, and a budget GEQ for the monitors.

[jeremyglover]

i believe the BSS graphic is quite a bit cheaper than the klark technik and is pretty good.

.. i agree with the above post about avoiding the 2buss comp and just inserting it on the main vocal, bass etc. if you are sending the vocal to the monitor you can try compressing a group instead of the vocal channel that way your not compressing the the aux send (vocal to monitor) but still have a comp on the vocal going to the main PA..

jeremy

[illnus]

You should be able to score a BSS Opal pcs-966 EQ for pretty cheap, around here they're going for about 700USD used. They're solid workhorse units.

[rty5150]

see, i love a comp on the master buss of a PA. especially before a crossover. this glues the mix and helps the crossover and power amps get a nice fat consistent level, not too mention that limiting the signal provides additional speaker protection from overloading clipping. since the driverack has a good comp and limiter(both separate), it helps reduce some pieces in the rack. it is still a good idea to put a gate on the master before the power amps or before the crossover somewhere in the chain between the mixer and power amps just to keep the noise floor down between signals. not every place has clean power and a decent gate will keep you from getting a bunch of dirty looks from the audience and venue owners. that is about the only thing the driverack doesn't have, other than that is a godsend for an all inclusive unit that promises a lot and delivers it in spades.

i know in my rack, i am using 12 channels of compression inserted onto my board: a 24 channel ramsa(killer pres for live work!). i am more than likely going to add 4-8 more. all the while i still have a dbx 266xl on the monitor chain and the driverack covers the compression/limiting for the main outs/sub. nice and punchy as well as being loud. i have gotten the rig up to 105db at unity gain the the LR faders with plenty of headroom left. granted power amps and speakers come into play, but i believe the best thing that has ever happened to me was really understanding compression and implementing it: in the studio and live. hell, i believe i own just as much dbx gear as i do ibanez guitars!!!

[psolorio]

Hey peeps, I want to connect my subs to an aux, can anybody help me on this. I want to do this so I can send only want needs low-end. Bass, Kick, Toms.

[rty5150]

Originally Posted by psolorio

Hey peeps, I want to connect my subs to an aux, can anybody help me on this. I want to do this so I can send only want needs low-end. Bass, Kick, Toms.

you really want a crossover.

[ghostyhead]

Originally Posted by psolorio

Hey peeps, I want to connect my subs to an aux, can anybody help me on this. I want to do this so I can send only want needs low-end. Bass, Kick, Toms.

send one auxilary to your cross over input then out of low (Sub)cross over out(s) to your amp then speaker. You will need a crossover with more than Left/right input. you can go mono in and out and bridge the inputs on your sub amps and run them in mono.(very common)
If you don`t have a cross over with more than left/right input you can go straight from the auxilary , down the snake to your amps so long as your subs have passive crossovers.
Its a very nice way to control the bottom end and assign bass.thumbsup

[ghostyhead]

Originally Posted by cptnhook

Thanks for the input everyone. The driverack looks interesting, and I'll check out the KT/Rane/Ashley units.

Come to think of it, we'll need something to tame the low-mids on the (two mono) monitors as well. I'll look into a driverack or similar for the mains, and a budget GEQ for the monitors.

Timing your system can help alot, if you do get a dsp crossover, they often have delays for subs, mids, highmid, and high. you can use a laptop with a programme such a smart live (Eaw) . using a reference mic and pink noise you time align subs mids highs by assigning correct amount of delay to line up all bands on crossover.u only need do it once and it makes a huge difference and less eq-ing with graphics is needed.

You definatley need a graphic on left right. I would put the dbx 166 individual channels such as vocal, and spend your money on graphics for foldback and foh. you can get a nice compressor for left right after the meat and potatoes are taken care of...

Drive racks tend to have limited 20 band eqs etc, but it would definatley be a good start.
Cheers

[aussie_techie]

all the digital processing in the world wont help you if you cant set the thing. Forgot digital and buy your self an analogue EQ so you have real controls.

On small rigs i prefer the constant-Q response of a BSS but a KT is great as well. DBX 1231 are fine on monitors.