I'm 21...Trying To Improve, Need Guidance - $1500 To Spend

[TheStixter]

I'm a noob GearSlut. Just recently got a Shure SM7B dynamic microphone and a nice pair of Beyerdynamic headphones. Mainly record vocals...hip-hop artists, rappers, rnb. Currently been using an EMU0404 USB amp to get the vocals I record to my computer. It's not special and I know with the right equipment both my mic and headphones could be pushed perfectly. My question is...where do I go from here? I have about $1500 to spend. What I want? #1. A good amp and compressor that will push the Shure SM7B correctly as well as my 600ohms headphones. #2. An effects processor that will handle any reverb, equalizer, echo, delay. When I purchased my mic, someone recommended I get the "Safe Sound P1" as it was a great compressor and pre for rap vocals. Any suggestions? Is there anything out there for the studio that handles reverb, eq, and has an echo effect? Help a noob out

Also, I'm curious if I'd be better off selling my Shure and buying a better microphone for rap vocals...

Basically...how would you spend $1500 (Note: I already have monitors/headphones)

[Ca$h Marty]

SM7B would seem to be a perfect mic for your application. It's a pretty flexible mic that works well for a variety of voices/sound sources. I think you should probably invest in a better preamp. I would not blow the entire $1500 on this. A popular low-end pre for this application is the GA Pre-73. There is actually a thread in the low-end forums with sound examples from that pre with a SM7B. Check 'er out!

Not knowing more specifics, you probably want to invest in a decent plug in set like a UAD card or something to give you a wider variety of tools rather than a physical box.

Also, acoustic treatment and a decent computer will help greatly. Not sure if you have those covered.

[jelstro]

Don't know what your experience and education in recording looks like, but start out by reading, reading, reading and listening, listening, listening before dropping large sums of cash. At the point you stand now, instead of buying outboard effects to tinker around with, I'd invest in a much cheaper DAW (Logic, ProTools LE w/an M-Box... or dozens of others that are good, but I can't recommend as I don't use them) and explore the effects you already have in the box with those before spending big bucks on analog gear for effects or third party plug ins.

That being said, with the $1500 I'd get some monitors and acoustic treatment of a permanent space you can work in. Strictly working from headphones is not only going to give you a very different view of what something sounds like, it's also extremely fatiguing and will be difficult to get good sounding mixes.

Good luck and keep us posted.

[Ricey]

Grace 101 is a nice neutral pre - for the money it's fantastic, you could find one for 400-500 used. that and a used Distressor would fall in your budget and make for a very happy SM7B thumbsup

[libertine]

You've got a great budget. Let's do this.

SM7 is a great start. Love this on Rock/Rap vocals, amongst other apps. That's the first part in your signal chain, and you did it right. Booyah.

The next thing I'd upgrade would be the Preamp, then the Converters, then add some software for your effects/compression needs.

If you're on a mac, go grab Logic Studio and an Apogee Duet, $1,000 bucks for that pair. Covers nice clean pre's, great conversion, and all the basic plugins you'll need, plus some bangin' software instruments.

If you're on a PC, go grab ProTools M-Powered, and an M-Audio Profire 610. $550, spent there. Then go put $500 into a few nice plugin's from Waves or McDSP, as the ProTools stock plugs aren't quite up to the level of Logic's from my perspective. $1050, done.

Spend the rest on some basic or DIY treatment to your tracking/mixing area.

Off to a good start, yeah?

Don't worry about outboard compression at this point. Just make sure to record at a conservative level in 24-bit mode (yellow is the new red) and you'll be able to use any number of DAWs stock compression plugin's to your hearts content.

[TheStixter]

Originally Posted by libertine

If you're on a PC, go grab ProTools M-Powered, and an M-Audio Profire 610. $550, spent there.

I use a PC, usually mix with Adobe Audition or Reaper...HATE dealing with Pro-tools...maybe it's cause I don't know my stuff on there as well, I taught myself everything I know, but it just seems too limited to me...you get equipment and your forced to use a certain program? I don't know... M-Audio products always have a good sound though...I'll definitely check into that.

Somebody mentioned I should buy monitors...I already have monitors

From what I've gotten so far, I need a preamp to push a dynamic mic and my 600ohms headphones, a quality channel strip, and converters.

Now it's just finding out which products pair good with a SM7B for rap/rnb vocals. Anybody experienced in these genres? List me off some potential products

Really great insight thou...I appreciate it...Keep it coming! Going to research some of these things.

[ether88]

gap 73 for pre amp, VLA2 compressor is sounds great,

-toss an a duet and youve got pretty decent converters as well.

do lots of research

[FredYeah]

Im also in need of some of the same stuff as you. What about:

Used Apogee AD24 (or also for DA an used RME ADI-2), GAP73, tubemodded Art Pro VLA or DBX 160 and some Massey Plugs?

[TheStixter]

What I'm currently considering as my chain. Tell me your opinion or any suggestions:

Mic: Shure SM7B > Pre: Golden Age Project 73 > Compressor: Safe Sound P1 > AD-DA Converter: Echo Audiofire 2or4 or SSL Alpha (Would have to save up for the Alpha for sure) > DAW: EMU 0404 USB Interface

My budget right now is $1500. I already have the Mic, Monitors, Headphones, and the DAW. I've heard good things about the "Safe Sound P1" as a compressor...I know a lot of you guys recommend the "Distressor", but that's kind of out of my budget....any Safe Sound P1 users here? I also liked the sound of the SSL Alpha...liked that it had AD/DA conversion, studio EQ. I would like a unit with EQ and maybe some simple vocal effects like an echo and some reverbs. Is there anything out there like that relatively cheap (I know you can buy software plugins for this, but it'd be handy to have a unit to actually hands on tweak the effects myself)

My question is this, what should I get first and do I need all of those things on my chain. Is a compressor necessary? (Keep in mind I'm mainly doing rap and rnb vocals) Is a converter necessary (I know it is necessary for a better sound...I'm saying for the time being if I wanted to save up for the SSL Alpha...could I do without and just get the GAP Pre73 and the Safe Sound P1. Or should I skip the Safe Sound P1, get the GAP Pre73 for now and save up for the SSL Alpha?...or would getting the Echo AudioFire2 be enough for what I'm trying to accomplish? That has 2 inputs and does AD-DA conversion correct?

I'm thinking of getting the GAP Pre73 > Safe Sound P1 > and the Echo AudioFire 2 ...I could afford all that right now. My concern is if I'd be getting the best sound for the money or if I'm better off just saving for a bit longer and getting a better pre, compressor, or converter. What would make the greatest difference? It sounds like the GAP Pre73 does a hell of a job with the Shure SM7B. I'm also curious about the mods that are available for that...Zen Audio has 2 different mods to choose from...do I need those doing what I do with vocals or would the unit itself be enough?

I have all these questions and more. Anybody up for the challenge of helping a noob out?

[stevens119]

What you need is a channel strip. It will take care of the Preamp/Compressor/and EQ. Some have eq.

The SSL Alpha Channel sounds like the right track...if it sounds good. I've never heard it. But if it says SSL on it, then it's probably not a piece of crap.

You might be able to find a used Avalon 737 for $1500 bucks. Those are great for rap vocals. It would not be a waste of money. I have an Avalon 2044 and it's the only preamp I use. It alot higher quality than my other preamp, a Grace model 101, that doesn't get used. Avalon makes great stuff.

For you, I don't think the converters are necessary. Thats some geeky later on stuff. I couldn't live without mine now, but I did fine without them for 10 years.

Don't ever use effects to record in the computer...If you want to change them later, they will already be recorded. Don't do it.

Few people on here would tell you to use another microphone. I would, because I don't like the SM7 for vocals.

[Ca$h Marty]

Channel strip is a good suggestion, especially if you are only going to be doing a single track at time. LA610 is a good one.

[KeithMoonwannabe]

quite honestly what is lacking in your actual recordings now?

because I own and use the EMU 0404 usb and the preamps and converters will probably be as good or better than any interface suggestions you will get (I read the ones you got so far).

If you are looking for a character pre than upgrade the pre. But the actual XTC pres built in are pretty good low noise, good dynamic range, decent amount of headroom pres, they even have built in limiters and 60dB of gain should easily handle your SM7b unless you have a really really quiet source in which case you'd need a really good pre that's quiet all the way up to like 70dB of gain.

As far as the headphones go you could be spending some hefty cash to get a good headphone amp. Check out some audiophile sites/stores for headphone amps. I use 250 ohm headphones and sometimes the 0404 is a little underpowered. I just haven't had the cash to upgrade to a nicer headphone amp, but I'd like to get a good valve headphone amp at some point just because I like to listen to a lot of classical music and critical listening so having a great headphone amp would be a worthwhile investment (I live in an apartment).

But again what you have should work.

What's your room like? What's the talent like you're working with?

The real issue here is probably the performer and the engineer and not the gear being used. And if you are looking for an upgrade you will see and hear for $1500 I'm gonna be the first to tell you it's probably not going to happen unless you really know your stuff, your talent is flawless, and your room becomes a professional recording environment none of which will be achieved by spending only $1500.

Maybe before you spend anymore money you should simply practice your craft and learn to use what you have. Then if what you have actually works for what you are doing you can just save your $1500. Saving money is always wiser than spending sorry if that's not very slutty of me but I'm 24 and I am speaking from experience and in this economy I'd rather have $1500 in my bank account than wrapped up in a bunch of gear that I don't really need to survive.

I'd check out some plugins for your DAW do a search on the forum there are plenty of cool freebies as well as the usual suspects to purchase.

[TheStixter]

I like my EMU 0404 as a DAW, but it seems to be picking up a lot of air. In other words, when I'm recording dead air, it's not as clean as I would like it. As you know the SM7B is a really sensitive vocal mic and I just don't think the EMU has the pre's to really push it right. Same with my headphones as you were saying. I have Beyerdynamic 600ohms headphones...barely pushes it.

The Safe Sound P1 is both a mic pre and compressor. And if I get the SSL Alpha...it also has a pre...as does the EMU0404. The GAP Pre 73 seems to be getting a lot of hype right now as being a great match for the Shure SM7B. It's $300 but sounds like its over $1000. Guess I'm just looking for the best possible sounding pre for the money. I have no idea what to get now...at a total loss...I'm leaning towards the SSL just because it has a pre, eq, and converter all in one. If I do that...what compressor should I add to the chain. I've heard a lot of talk about the FMR RNC and the distressor. When I bought my SM7B mic a guy recommended I get the Safe Sound P1 as it was a great pre and compressor for people with deep voices such as mine and other rap vocals. But if I get that, I don't get a converter or EQ. Ha.. I'm hopeless...

[firby]

Originally Posted by TheStixter

I like my EMU 0404 as a DAW, but it seems to be picking up a lot of air. In other words, when I'm recording dead air, it's not as clean as I would like it. As you know the SM7B is a really sensitive vocal mic and I just don't think the EMU has the pre's to really push it right. Same with my headphones as you were saying. I have Beyerdynamic 600ohms headphones...barely pushes it.

If you are getting hiss because you are turning up your microphone preamp too far, then you need a mic pre with more clean gain.

If your headphones don't get loud enough or have too much hiss and static when you turn them up to a reasonable operating level then you need a headphone amp.

Right now, you are in a position where many noob slutz have been.

If you are on a mac, just get a duet. Done IMO. On a PC get somebody elses suggestion, perhaps a channel strip.

The thing that happens when most (not all) people go out and get their first channel strip is that everything they record thru it comes out with too much compression and too much eq. Then later, they lament about how their sound is sounding. This is a pretty natural phenomena.

This is because you have to develop your ears for this stuff. What you think sounds good now, probably won't sound good later.

That's why the general solution for this is to just get a good enough mic pre to have a quality mic pre (get a quality, professional unit). Then record a dozen vocals with it. Then get something else that you need. That something else may be a compressor, or it may be room treatment, or it may be a different microphone. But if you blow your 1500 dollars now, you'll be stuck with whatever you have until you can sell stuff or make more money or whatever.

We are all going through it, searching for sounds, many reading here are giving you good advice and they are sitting in studios upwards of 20k.

Oh, and one more thing. If your songs are ready to go right now. And you can nail them in 1-3 takes with moderate distraction, and they are good tracks that you truely believe in... tracks that you would buy... then just go to a studio and lay them down with a engineer with good ears and good gear.

[David Watts]

I can't believe no one has mentioned the stunning Focusrite ISA 430 mkII 'Producer Pack'. This guy is the dogs. Pre-amp, Compressor, EQ, De-esser & Limiter all in one box!

ISA430 MkII The pinnacle of Focusrite

Trust me, you won't look back - welcome to the big time!

[KeithMoonwannabe]

Originally Posted by TheStixter

I like my EMU 0404 as a DAW, but it seems to be picking up a lot of air. In other words, when I'm recording dead air, it's not as clean as I would like it. As you know the SM7B is a really sensitive vocal mic and I just don't think the EMU has the pre's to really push it right. Same with my headphones as you were saying. I have Beyerdynamic 600ohms headphones...barely pushes it.

The Safe Sound P1 is both a mic pre and compressor. And if I get the SSL Alpha...it also has a pre...as does the EMU0404. The GAP Pre 73 seems to be getting a lot of hype right now as being a great match for the Shure SM7B. It's $300 but sounds like its over $1000. Guess I'm just looking for the best possible sounding pre for the money. I have no idea what to get now...at a total loss...I'm leaning towards the SSL just because it has a pre, eq, and converter all in one. If I do that...what compressor should I add to the chain. I've heard a lot of talk about the FMR RNC and the distressor. When I bought my SM7B mic a guy recommended I get the Safe Sound P1 as it was a great pre and compressor for people with deep voices such as mine and other rap vocals. But if I get that, I don't get a converter or EQ. Ha.. I'm hopeless...

The SM7b is not that sensitive of a mic imho. But like I said I'm pretty much in your shoes minus the having $1500 to spend (that'd be much needed for me lol). But really I don't see any need to improve anything.

I can understand wanting a better headphone amp but the preamps and converters in the 0404 USB are really gonna be tough to beat. Chances are if you upgrade to a better outboard preamp you are also going to have to buy a decent A/D converter for it since you cannot bypass the 0404's preamps unless you use the digital ins. Just be ready to spend pretty much your whole budget if you take that route. That'd be about $600 for a 2 channel A/D converter and about $400-$700 for your preamp, the rest of your budget should get you a good headphone amp.

But I'd only do it IF YOU REALLY NEED THIS STUFF TO FUNCTION. Perhaps it's just me but I really doubt you are going to notice the improvement you are seeking by getting a much nicer preamp. You could have a noisy environment, you may be compensating and hearing things inaccurately because your headphones are underpowered, etc.

[David Streit]

A few thoughts, or free advice is worth what you pay for it...

An engineer who I've learned things from once told me:
"Only buy gear that will make you money."
This is excellent advice that I have often not followed, but excellent none the less.

Another reason to buy something might be that there is something that you have that you know is a weak link. For example, you might determine that your mic pre doesn't have enough clean gain, and this one thing is degrading your sound. I'm not familiar with your current pre, so I can't comment on that.

By the way, I've used the SM7, and it's a great mic. It's not necessarily the best for every voice, but it sounds great on many voices.

You might decide to buy something to learn how to use it: You might buy a decent, inexpensive compressor in order to learn how to use a compressor (or you might mess around with a plug-in you already have.)

You also might get a book. Libraries are great. When I lived in Nashville, the library had a great selection of music / engineering books that I took full advantage of. Or maybe you don't need a book. I can't say, since I don't know you. I can tell you that the knowledge you really need is about how gear works and how to use it, rather than what piece to get. Well, eventually, you'll want to know what piece to get too, but if you know the other stuff, it'll help with the later.

Find an internship / mentor / person who has already made mistakes.

If you can, try something out before you buy it. See if you like what it does to your sound.

After you've had a chance to use your budget set-up, and you've learned more about what the gear does and how to use it, and you're getting a sense for what gear is good: Don't buy mediocre gear, or good-for-the-money gear. Save up until you can afford to buy something that you know is excellent, that you love the sound of, and that you're going to hang onto for a very long time.

Of course there are things worth having that don't cost an arm and leg, like your SM7B. Good job with that one.

Hopefully, it can make you some money.

Best of luck!
--David