I'm 21...Trying To Improve, Need Guidance - $1500 To Spend

[TheStixter]

I'm a noob GearSlut. Just recently got a Shure SM7B dynamic microphone and a nice pair of Beyerdynamic headphones. Mainly record vocals...hip-hop artists, rappers, rnb. Currently been using an EMU0404 USB amp to get the vocals I record to my computer. It's not special and I know with the right equipment both my mic and headphones could be pushed perfectly. My question is...where do I go from here? I have about $1500 to spend. What I want? #1. A good amp and compressor that will push the Shure SM7B correctly as well as my 600ohms headphones. #2. An effects processor that will handle any reverb, equalizer, echo, delay. When I purchased my mic, someone recommended I get the "Safe Sound P1" as it was a great compressor and pre for rap vocals. Any suggestions? Is there anything out there for the studio that handles reverb, eq, and has an echo effect? Help a noob out

[kkonkkrete]

Originally Posted by TheStixter

I'm a noob GearSlut. Just recently got a Shure SM7B dynamic microphone and a nice pair of Beyerdynamic headphones. Mainly record vocals...hip-hop artists, rappers, rnb. Currently been using an EMU0404 USB amp to get the vocals I record to my computer. It's not special and I know with the right equipment both my mic and headphones could be pushed perfectly. My question is...where do I go from here? I have about $1500 to spend. What I want? #1. A good amp and compressor that will push the Shure SM7B correctly as well as my 600ohms headphones. #2. An effects processor that will handle any reverb, equalizer, echo, delay. When I purchased my mic, someone recommended I get the "Safe Sound P1" as it was a great compressor and pre for rap vocals. Any suggestions? Is there anything out there for the studio that handles reverb, eq, and has an echo effect? Help a noob out

Hey. Just to prepare you, you're probably going to get some flack for posting this in the high end section...

There are loads of great multi FX processors. You might want to check out the Eventide stuff, they make great effects.

As for a compressor and pre, I suggest you contact a retailer and try some stuff out in the context of your own studio. That's probably the best way to work out works for you.

Good luck!

[Nostalgic]

That mic kind of sucks man... $1500 will get you about one good channel strip... are you trying to go all analog? Do something versatile.. buy a mic pre like a chandler germanium or a great river... or if you really want a compressor, you can't go wrong with a distressor...

Take the other 500 and buy a pair of 5inch studio monitors and cables...... and taco bell.. you won't get by mixing with headphones..

[TheStixter]

Originally Posted by kkonkkrete

Hey. Just to prepare you, you're probably going to get some flack for posting this in the high end section...

$1500 is "high-end" for a college student Haha...plus I know you guys probably know more and have dealt with more equipment.

Why isn't the Shure SM7B a good mic? I did research on it before I bought it...seemed to be good for rap vocals. What mic would you recommend for hip-hop artists?

[kkonkkrete]

Originally Posted by TheStixter

$1500 is "high-end" for a college student Haha...plus I know you guys probably know more and have dealt with more equipment.

Absolutely, that was meant more as a comment about the way people often wade in to knock anything that's in the sub 100K range.

I think you should think carefully about your priorities in terms of the essential pieces to get you going. I'd say you might want to stick with software for FX for now to focus on getting the bare essentials:
- a quality channel strip
- a decent converter
- some monitors

[msmith]

No... There are clear(in theory) categorizations so that we can keep the forum clutter free, and user friendly. This is not "high end". Who cares. Just post it in the right forum next time...

[jjblair]

Come intern for me, and you'll improve.

[jsaliba]

The SM-7B is probably your best choice for your budget and application. Don't start worrying about that.

At this point, you might look at getting a decent interface or preamp.

Since you only need 1 input channel for vocals, you could look at getting a Daking One mic preamp. Top notch quality preamp. Somewhere between $600 and $700 I think.

What recording software do you use? This software should include the "effects" that you want. Make sure you don't already have them. You probably do.

Does your USB interface have a SPDIF input? If it does, you could purchase an Apogee Rosetta AD converter on ebay for around $500.

This will give you a full chain of good mic -> nice preamp -> nice converters.



You will then get the fullest potential out of your mic.

[Fletcher]

Originally Posted by TheStixter

Why isn't the Shure SM7B a good mic? I did research on it before I bought it...seemed to be good for rap vocals. What mic would you recommend for hip-hop artists?

An SM-7b will usually do the job fine. Is it the best mic in the world? You know the answer to that... but it is a good "utility" mic and I'm sure its "paid for" so there you go.

You have two major and one minor problem. #1, your mic pre sucks - #2, your converter sucks. To fix both of those problems is over your budget, to fix one of those problems is going to be a waste of time and energy.

I would suggest you check out an API "A2D" which is [unfortunately] a two channel unit with great mic pre's and great A/D conversion. You'll need to have a way to input an AES/EBU digital signal to your computer which might require an extra bit of hardware. The "A2D" goes for around $1,900, which is over your budget at the moment, but will be right back in your budget after you stick up a few more liquor stores and gas stations [hey, you're working on being a "rapper", right? If you get popped it'll work towards having "street cred"... getting popped may eat into your budget a bit, but you have to develop an image and "persona" as well as music... call it "multi-tasking"].

Now, the minor problem... which in this case will be "dynamic range control". For this I would recommend an FMR Audio "PBC-6A". I think they're like $5-600 but sound more like $1800-$2k... in other words they are a very "real" and professional sounding unit.

When you've knocked over a few more gas stations and liquor stores... maybe sometime around the end of the summer [hit the ones near a beach!!!] you should be able to add that to your rig on the insert point between the mic-pre and the converter on the API.

You're still going to have a problem in that you won't have a really good D/A [Digital to Analog] converter so you probably won't be hearing a hell of a lot of difference off your computer... BUT, when you take the mixed CD out of the computer and put it on a system that does have a D/A that will reveal all that was recorded you'll notice a very large difference.

Hope this helps... best of luck.

Peace.

[Chris Lago]

Originally Posted by Nostalgic

That mic kind of sucks man... $1500 will get you about one good channel strip...

Lol what a ******. Tell that to Bruce Swedien when he used it on MJ. I've used the sm7 over tons of quality condensers.

For 1500 you can get more than a good channel strip, in fact, for that price you can get a used 737 or a used Pacifica... Not bad eh?

[Chris Lago]

Originally Posted by Fletcher

You have two major and one minor problem. #1, your mic pre sucks - #2, your converter sucks.

Actually, a good idea would be to get an SSL Alpha maybe? You get a decent pre, decent EQ and VHD, decent AD too with SPDIF. Not bad, plus a good AD. These go for 700 used. I've used it with the sm7 and it sounded pretty good, plus I could tweak the EQ a bit to my liking.

[shaneoconnor]

spend three months as an intern.

[Kestral]

That's a very tight budget, especially for High End.

Given the limited funds, I think your mic is OK, and in my own personal experience, a great pre makes a much bigger difference than great converters.

$1500 for a single channel is a decent budget.

So if it were up to me, I'd try to find one of those single Brent Averill 1272 channel strips, I've seen them here and EBAY sell used anywhere from between $800-1100. Even better is if you stretch an extra $500 and get a Brent Averill 1073MP, that's two channels and at some point you'll need the extra channel so you'll only buy once:
Brent Averill Enterprises - 1073MP

[ckreon]

Originally Posted by Nostalgic

That mic kind of sucks man... $1500 will get you about one good channel strip... are you trying to go all analog? Do something versatile.. buy a mic pre like a chandler germanium or a great river... or if you really want a compressor, you can't go wrong with a distressor...

Take the other 500 and buy a pair of 5inch studio monitors and cables...... and taco bell.. you won't get by mixing with headphones..

it seems my judgement of you based on your avatar alone was spot on.

quit being an arrogant ******, the SM7 is a fantastic mic in several applications.

[octatonic]

Originally Posted by Fletcher

... but will be right back in your budget after you stick up a few more liquor stores and gas stations [hey, you're working on being a "rapper", right? If you get popped it'll work towards having "street cred"... getting popped may eat into your budget a bit, but you have to develop an image and "persona" as well as music... call it "multi-tasking"].

ROFLMAO.

[mdjice]

Originally Posted by jjblair

Come intern for me, and you'll improve.

If I do, can I get a mic of my choice from your collection after the first day ?

[TheStixter]

Originally Posted by jsaliba

Does your USB interface have a SPDIF input? If it does, you could purchase an Apogee Rosetta AD converter on ebay for around $500..

Yes, my USB interface does have a SPDIF input/output. I'm using a PC and typically mix on Adobe Audition or Reaper just so you guys know.

Really great insight thou...I appreciate it...Keep it coming! Going to research some of these things.

And those that mentioned interning, you're right, I would probably learn a lot. I've taught myself everything I know, I go off my ear, I'm a perfectionist, I learn quick. Bout to graduate with a degree in Business from Texas and I know my music, so if there are any jobs out there, get with me. With a steady income, this $1500 budget limit wouldn't be a problem

[Audio Hombre]

Originally Posted by Nostalgic

That mic kind of sucks man...

reallllllllly?

i dunno.based on another post i read the other day, i kind of think that it's possible at least, you have little to no experience with an sm7b.just a hunch, but you seem like you're a little new to the fray. you start a thread asking about a mic and pre for les paul and buy an 87ai and 737sp?


sm7b is a good first mic that could get the young guy a lot of mileage. i say get the sm7b and a daking mic pre one and you're off to a fair start as far as your front end.



you might also want to research one of these for an interface. I think they're around $500.

overall, fletchers recommendation about saving some pennies for the A2D is the best bet though. best of luck to ya

[teo]

Originally Posted by Nostalgic

That mic kind of sucks man.

I always knew that there must have been a reason why MJ's vocals sucked ass on all those albums...now I know!

[TheStixter]

What I'm currently considering as my chain. Tell me your opinion or any suggestions:

Mic: Shure SM7B > Pre: Golden Age Project 73 > Compressor: Safe Sound P1 > AD-DA Converter: Echo Audiofire 2or4 or SSL Alpha (Would have to save up for the Alpha for sure) > DAW: EMU 0404 USB Interface

My budget right now is $1500. I already have the Mic, Monitors, Headphones, and the DAW. I've heard good things about the "Safe Sound P1" as a compressor...I know a lot of you guys recommend the "Distressor", but that's kind of out of my budget....any Safe Sound P1 users here? I also liked the sound of the SSL Alpha...liked that it had AD/DA conversion, studio EQ. I would like a unit with EQ and maybe some simple vocal effects like an echo and some reverbs. Is there anything out there like that relatively cheap (I know you can buy software plugins for this, but it'd be handy to have a unit to actually hands on tweak the effects myself)

My question is this, what should I get first and do I need all of those things on my chain. Is a compressor necessary? (Keep in mind I'm mainly doing rap and rnb vocals) Is a converter necessary (I know it is necessary for a better sound...I'm saying for the time being if I wanted to save up for the SSL Alpha...could I do without and just get the GAP Pre73 and the Safe Sound P1. Or should I skip the Safe Sound P1, get the GAP Pre73 for now and save up for the SSL Alpha?...or would getting the Echo AudioFire2 be enough for what I'm trying to accomplish? That has 2 inputs and does AD-DA conversion correct?

I'm thinking of getting the GAP Pre73 > Safe Sound P1 > and the Echo AudioFire 2 ...I could afford all that right now. My concern is if I'd be getting the best sound for the money or if I'm better off just saving for a bit longer and getting a better pre, compressor, or converter. What would make the greatest difference? It sounds like the GAP Pre73 does a hell of a job with the Shure SM7B. I'm also curious about the mods that are available for that...Zen Audio has 2 different mods to choose from...do I need those doing what I do with vocals or would the unit itself be enough?

I have all these questions and more. Anybody up for the challenge of helping a noob out?

[Zuewi]

If you want to advance fast take fletchers advice and get a Api A2D unit there you have a good pre and A/D in one thing and get a AES/EBU card for the PC.
Also a Neve 1073DPD would be a simmilar device and will send you miles away as you are now.
(But those are over your buget i think)

A good advice would also be a RME Fireface800, what is a pritty good Interface for it's money alredy and fits with your buget. You have a good A/D, D/A and some decent Pres to start with and it's miles away from your current setup.

Or get only a better Preamp like a Darking or Great River or a Api Lunchbox with a 512c, Shadow Hills Mono Gamma or a Atlas Pro Audio Juggernaut.
But the Problem is there still that your A/D D/A stilll sux.

I wount buy a compressor yet, better invest more into Pre, A/D, D/A, Mic and then consider a compressor.
Compressing a bad Signal still stays a bad Signal.

[jsaliba]

Originally Posted by TheStixter

What I'm currently considering as my chain. Tell me your opinion or any suggestions:

Mic: Shure SM7B > Pre: Golden Age Project 73 > Compressor: Safe Sound P1 > AD-DA Converter: Echo Audiofire 2or4 or SSL Alpha (Would have to save up for the Alpha for sure) > DAW: EMU 0404 USB Interface

I would like a unit with EQ and maybe some simple vocal effects like an echo and some reverbs. Is there anything out there like that relatively cheap (I know you can buy software plugins for this, but it'd be handy to have a unit to actually hands on tweak the effects myself)

I'm thinking of getting the GAP Pre73 > Safe Sound P1 > and the Echo AudioFire 2 ...I could afford all that right now.

Reaper already has echo, reverb, eq, and compression built in. You can 'actually tweak the effects yourself' just as much in reaper as with an outboard unit. You don't have to use a preset. Also, effects such as reverb and echo are generally not recorded to tape while tracking but are added afterwards. Check the list of effects in reaper here:

REAPER | Technical


Also, why would you purchase an Echo AudioFire 2? It looks like it's pretty close to being the same as your EMU 0404. It's just a USB interface. Possibly even a downgrade.

I think you should wait on a compressor until you have a good preamp and converter since you already have a software compressor available to you and it sounds like you haven't really learned how to use that one yet. Plus, it's just not as important as decent pres and conversion.

Also, it looks like the Safe Sound P1 is both a mic pre and compressor, so you wouldn't need both that and the GAP Pre73.

I'm not very familiar with the Safe Sound P1 or the GAP Pre73, but they don't appear to be on the same quality level as the Daking One and Apogee Rosetta that I originally recommended to you.


Apogee Rosetta AD - eBay (item 330401315756 end time Feb-12-10 13:54:08 PST)

Daking Mic Pre One Single Channel Microphone Preamp - eBay (item 200433810754 end time Feb-28-10 13:51:02 PST)

Not really sure how you could put together one solid channel of pre and conversion cheaper than that.

[TheStixter]

You're right...the Safe Sound P1 is both a mic pre and compressor. And if I get the SSL Alpha...it also has a pre...as does my current USB Interface...the EMU0404. The GAP Pre 73 seems to be getting a lot of hype in the Low End forum as being a great match for the Shure SM7B. It's $300 but sounds like its over $1000. Guess I'm just looking for the best possible sounding pre for the money. I have no idea what to get now...at a total loss...I'm leaning towards the SSL just because it has a pre, eq, and converter all in one. If I do that...what compressor should I add to the chain. I've heard a lot of talk about the FMR RNC and the distressor. When I bought my SM7B mic a guy recommended I get the Safe Sound P1 as it was a great pre and compressor for people with deep voices such as mine and other rap vocals. But if I get that, I don't get a converter or EQ. Ha.. I'm hopeless...

[Fletcher]

When I heard the "Safe Sound" unit, which granted was a few years ago so things may have changed, I thought it was a complete turd. An RNC is far from a complete turd, in fact its an amazing unit for that price tag. The distressor is also far from a turd of any kind... but will eat the lion's share of your budget.

[TheStixter]

Originally Posted by Fletcher

When I heard the "Safe Sound" unit, which granted was a few years ago so things may have changed, I thought it was a complete turd. An RNC is far from a complete turd, in fact its an amazing unit for that price tag. The distressor is also far from a turd of any kind... but will eat the lion's share of your budget.

Now we're talking! Thanks for the input. The API you recommended sounded really great too, but I just don't know if it's going to have everything I need. I'm sure it's a great pre, but I kind of want a unit with some eq, compression, and conversion. How bout the SSL Alpha? Is it a turd?

[Fletcher]

I haven't spent enough time with the "Alpha" to decide.

I'm going to share something with you that my dad shared with me when I was 16 or 17 and had to get a set of metric socket wrenches [had a FIAT convertible at the time].

I was going to get a $20 socket set. My old man looked at me and said "put that down. When you buy tools buy the best tools because that way you only have to buy them once". I thought he was daft but got the S&K socket set he recommended.

Guess what?

I still have them.

I'm going to be 50 next July [got the bald spot, gut, gray hair and a few gold / platinum records to prove it].

Still use them. Even broke one and sent it back to S&K for a replacement [they have a lifetime warranty].

The S&K set was $75-, not $25-. I had to borrow $20-30 off the old man to get them. Paid him back [with interest] and never looked back. Guess what else? I don't have that FIAT anymore... but believe it or not, there are a lot of metric sized bolts on a Harley - Davidson motor cycle. Had more than a few of those in my day and those wrenches have been a god send.

My point?

Don't f*ck around. Get the best tools you can, buy them once, and move on with your art. There is a hell of a lot of disposable audio gear in the world. Shit you can "afford" now but will outgrow in a couple of years. They count on that. More importantly, eBay® counts on that. The shit you get and outgrow will net you 50¢ on the dollar when you punt it on eBay® [or maybe you should get it off eBay® if you can stomach those kinds of transactions]... I dunno. What I do know is that if you buy top shelf gear and keep it maintained it will last you a life time.

I've had my RNC for probably 12 or 13 years at this point. Hasn't let me down once. I've had my distressor since like '95-'96. Hasn't let me down once. I had a Brauner "KHE" mic... bought it new when I used to be a Brauner dealer. Sold it last year for MORE THAN DOUBLE what list price was when I got it... AND got a decade or so of use from the thing.

That's my point.

Best of luck with your search.

Peace.

[cinealta]

Totally concur with Fletcher. Two things I've learned with audio gear:

1) Buy nice or buy twice
2) Try before you buy

Having said that, save up your money and consider these pieces:

Mic: Telefunken Ela M 251

Mic Pre: DW Fearn VT-2

Compressor: Fairchild 670

A/D Converter: Prism Dream AD-2

Effects Processor: TC Electronic System 6000

That should get you started. Good luck!

[bxt403]

Originally Posted by Fletcher

I haven't spent enough time with the "Alpha" to decide.

I'm going to share something with you that my dad shared with me when I was 16 or 17 and had to get a set of metric socket wrenches [had a FIAT convertible at the time].

I was going to get a $20 socket set. My old man looked at me and said "put that down. When you buy tools buy the best tools because that way you only have to buy them once". I thought he was daft but got the S&K socket set he recommended.

Guess what?

I still have them.

I'm going to be 50 next July [got the bald spot, gut, gray hair and a few gold / platinum records to prove it].

Still use them. Even broke one and sent it back to S&K for a replacement [they have a lifetime warranty].

The S&K set was $75-, not $25-. I had to borrow $20-30 off the old man to get them. Paid him back [with interest] and never looked back. Guess what else? I don't have that FIAT anymore... but believe it or not, there are a lot of metric sized bolts on a Harley - Davidson motor cycle. Had more than a few of those in my day and those wrenches have been a god send.

My point?

Don't f*ck around. Get the best tools you can, buy them once, and move on with your art. There is a hell of a lot of disposable audio gear in the world. Shit you can "afford" now but will outgrow in a couple of years. They count on that. More importantly, eBay® counts on that. The shit you get and outgrow will net you 50¢ on the dollar when you punt it on eBay® [or maybe you should get it off eBay® if you can stomach those kinds of transactions]... I dunno. What I do know is that if you buy top shelf gear and keep it maintained it will last you a life time.

I've had my RNC for probably 12 or 13 years at this point. Hasn't let me down once. I've had my distressor since like '95-'96. Hasn't let me down once. I had a Brauner "KHE" mic... bought it new when I used to be a Brauner dealer. Sold it last year for MORE THAN DOUBLE what list price was when I got it... AND got a decade or so of use from the thing.

That's my point.

Best of luck with your search.

Peace.

Although I totally agree with what's been said there's one thing that I have to disagree about. Being a proud owner of the A2D; I think it's a killer piece for the $$$ but on a $1500 budget I think the Metric Halo ULN-2 (used...if you can find one) is a very good all-in-one solution. Sell the Emu and maybe you can get some more $$$ to add to your $1500 budget. If you're lucky maybe you can find one in the GS classifieds.


The MH also has DSP on it, if I remember correctly- so it's a really good starting point if you want a high-end setup.

But I'm just offering a suggestion that's slightly over budget.

[Audio Hombre]

the guy comes here asking about gear with a $1500 budget and you rattle of several uber expensive pieces? do we read posts around here anymore? a fvcking fairchild 670!! lmfao! that's just plain idiotic and even the chap you just agreed with in your post would agree. he'll need a trust fund just to keep tubes in that monster. c'mon man, lets keep it real, shall we ?

Originally Posted by cinealta

Having said that, save up your money and consider these pieces:

Mic: Telefunken Ela M 251

Mic Pre: DW Fearn VT-2

Compressor: Fairchild 670

A/D Converter: Prism Dream AD-2

Effects Processor: TC Electronic System 6000

That should get you started. Good luck!

[Fletcher]

Originally Posted by cinealta

Totally concur with Fletcher. Two things I've learned with audio gear:

1) Buy nice or buy twice
2) Try before you buy

I concur

Having said that, save up your money and consider these pieces:

Mic: SM-7b will be fine for now.

Mic Pre: There are a plethora of good solid pre's... someone else suggested the 737sp, not a bad choice

Compressor: An RNC is a competent unit

A/D Converter: This was the only reason I suggested the A2D as its the least expensive yet professionally competent unit I can think of

Effects Processor: Software is fine in this department

That should get you started. Good luck!

I concur