DI Box $130 or less- Your pick?

[Eric Pederson]

Dear fellow slutz,

-I am looking for a good DI box for electric guitar and bass, new or used for $130 or less. I'd also like to use it backwards as a Reamp interface (if thats possible?) but I think thats the passive DI box's job and neither here nor there.

-I already have a passive Horizon DI Box, it works ok but I play a Gibson SG and feel an active DI box might give me better sound?

-Should I get a stereo DI instead in case I need to record keyboards? Would an electric guitar be suitable to go into one side or are the stereo boxes only built for keyboard impedance?

Please give me your advice and favorites. Thank you

[Snatchman]

Whirlwind "Hot Box"..Don't know if it'll work backwards as reamp tho as it's active.....It's not stereo either, so you'll need two for stereo..Good luck...

[ManOnAMission]

You will need a separate reamp box. Check out the ones from Radial.

[fuzzworks]

Orchid Muting DI

[zippsinc]

Doesn't the Radial JDI Passive work backwards for reamping?

[aclarson]

The Radial boxes do work backwards for reamping because they're passive, but it's less than ideal because the DIs are made to go from guitar level down to mic level, so when you feed it back out at line level, it's 1000x more powerful. This way you're starting with a high-level signal, converting down to a very low-level signal, and then back up to a hotter signal again. I've done it with my ProDI a few times, but I had to have my track fader way down (like -50 dB) to keep from overdriving the transformer. This isn't ideal because I'm not using all my bits, but I suppose you could put an analog control in the chain after the D/A.

Bottom line, it can be used, and isn't too bad, but ideally you want a ReAmp device that goes from line down to instrument level and has an adjustable output. That way you just keep the track fader at 0. I have the ProRMP, it works pretty well, but I've heard good things about the active reamp boxes.

[zippsinc]

Originally Posted by aclarson

The Radial boxes do work backwards for reamping because they're passive, but it's less than ideal because the DIs are made to go from guitar level down to mic level, so when you feed it back out at line level, it's 1000x more powerful. This way you're starting with a high-level signal, converting down to a very low-level signal, and then back up to a hotter signal again. I've done it with my ProDI a few times, but I had to have my track fader way down (like -50 dB) to keep from overdriving the transformer. This isn't ideal because I'm not using all my bits, but I suppose you could put an analog control in the chain after the D/A.

Bottom line, it can be used, and isn't too bad, but ideally you want a ReAmp device that goes from line down to instrument level and has an adjustable output. That way you just keep the track fader at 0. I have the ProRMP, it works pretty well, but I've heard good things about the active reamp boxes.

Cheers aclarson

I never knew that.

I guess I'd be best to reamp with Radial's X-Amp then. I should have realised, there would be no need for the X-Amp if the JDI done the job.

[in a blue field]

using a DI in reverse in an attempt to reamp does not change the impedance... you're playin' with fire...

i'm officially hijacking the thread: i would LOVE it if someone had an answer to this question for me, i've searched far too long for the answer to this INCREDIBLY stupid question, not a stupid question but stupid that it's been so hard for me to find the answer. Radial hasnt gotten back to me for days now, found one kinda-maybe thread... ok so here it goes:
for the love of pete, someone tell me what the freakin' difference is between the Radial JDI and the Radial JDI MK3. i'm seeing two different units. is there any difference at all? if not, why the slight price difference? if there's any diff at all however minute i need to know it before i make my purchase. save yourselves the eyesore and just plz someone answer, i'm gonna be bumping the crap outa this thread til someone does, i cant spend any more DAYS trying to find the answer to this truly retarded question

[S.Filpansick]

Originally Posted by in a blue field

using a DI in reverse in an attempt to reamp does not change the impedance... you're playin' with fire...

i'm officially hijacking the thread: i would LOVE it if someone had an answer to this question for me, i've searched far too long for the answer to this INCREDIBLY stupid question, not a stupid question but stupid that it's been so hard for me to find the answer. Radial hasnt gotten back to me for days now, found one kinda-maybe thread... ok so here it goes:
for the love of pete, someone tell me what the freakin' difference is between the Radial JDI and the Radial JDI MK3. i'm seeing two different units. is there any difference at all? if not, why the slight price difference? if there's any diff at all however minute i need to know it before i make my purchase. save yourselves the eyesore and just plz someone answer, i'm gonna be bumping the crap outa this thread til someone does, i cant spend any more DAYS trying to find the answer to this truly retarded question

How about this: The MK3 is the new(current) version of the JDI. I can't say what has changed for this revision, but Radial no longer makes a JDI that ISN'T a MK3.

If you see a non-mk3 for sale, it's likely just someone getting rid of old stock.

[in a blue field]

Originally Posted by S.Filpansick

How about this: The MK3 is the new(current) version of the JDI. I can't say what has changed for this revision, but Radial no longer makes a JDI that ISN'T a MK3.

If you see a non-mk3 for sale, it's likely just someone getting rid of old stock.

THANK you sir, thanks so much. it's honestly really exasperating. kuz like, what you just said makes sense, but if you go to the Radial website, the only unit they are selling has no "MK3" on it, in fact you're hardpressed to even find that term anywhere on the site. but, if you open up the manual for that unit on their site, you get a manual talking about the MK3! so you think if i order direct from radial, i'm gonna get the MK3? it's kind of annoying kuz the only other thread on gearslutz about this talks about someone getting not-the-box they ordered, even tho the box that contains the box said something different, with a vague reference to the "artwork", but like i said that doesnt really justify the fact that the JDI sells for $165 and the MK3 for $199... i hope you can understand my frustration, thanks for replying. if you by any chance know of a place I can buy the Radial -- online, kuz quite frankly i dont have the half-a-day it takes tog et my butt down to guitar center, and then stay there drooling over everything else in the store, kuz after all, i'm -Slut, and it's guitar center -- that you think I can trust I'm gonna get not only the current unit but the unit I actually order, that'd be tops.

F-ing internet... there's a 1001 people talking about super-math in music and all this other hardcoreness that would make non-slutz cry, and yet every time I get stuck on an answer to a question, it's inevitably one that finds its place in the absolute lowest, most fundamental sphere of thought.

[ManOnAMission]

Originally Posted by in a blue field

THANK you sir, thanks so much. it's honestly really exasperating. kuz like, what you just said makes sense, but if you go to the Radial website, the only unit they are selling has no "MK3" on it, in fact you're hardpressed to even find that term anywhere on the site. but, if you open up the manual for that unit on their site, you get a manual talking about the MK3! so you think if i order direct from radial, i'm gonna get the MK3? it's kind of annoying kuz the only other thread on gearslutz about this talks about someone getting not-the-box they ordered, even tho the box that contains the box said something different, with a vague reference to the "artwork", but like i said that doesnt really justify the fact that the JDI sells for $165 and the MK3 for $199... i hope you can understand my frustration, thanks for replying. if you by any chance know of a place I can buy the Radial -- online, kuz quite frankly i dont have the half-a-day it takes tog et my butt down to guitar center, and then stay there drooling over everything else in the store, kuz after all, i'm -Slut, and it's guitar center -- that you think I can trust I'm gonna get not only the current unit but the unit I actually order, that'd be tops.

F-ing internet... there's a 1001 people talking about super-math in music and all this other hardcoreness that would make non-slutz cry, and yet every time I get stuck on an answer to a question, it's inevitably one that finds its place in the absolute lowest, most fundamental sphere of thought.

You use way too many words for simple questions. the problem is with you.

[in a blue field]

Originally Posted by ManOnAMission

You use way too many words for simple questions. the problem is with you.

alright smart@$$ then you find the answer to the question. go ahead. i'll wait.

[Jungle Jazz]

For the OP, in your price range, I'd consider the Radial ProDI (first choice) Radial Engineering - ProDI / ProD2 passive direct boxes or the boxes from EWI for less money: DI Boxes

[Singinto Th'Can]

Originally Posted by Jungle Jazz

For the OP, in your price range, I'd consider the Radial ProDI (first choice) Radial Engineering - ProDI / ProD2 passive direct boxes or the boxes from EWI for less money: DI Boxes

+1 for the Pro DI (even cheaper used). With your extra few bucks, get a Shure inline pad to use in your "backwards DI as reamp" chain. It can be done, and the Radial site has info on using their passive DI's this way. Then you can start saving your next hundred bucks for the reamp version later on.

[aclarson]

Originally Posted by S.Filpansick

How about this: The MK3 is the new(current) version of the JDI. I can't say what has changed for this revision, but Radial no longer makes a JDI that ISN'T a MK3.

If you see a non-mk3 for sale, it's likely just someone getting rid of old stock.

I'm certain this is correct, besides, it's a very simple box, and all of the "tone" comes from the transformer, which has always been the same very nice Jensen transformer. Don't fret bro, they probably just changed the logo or something.

Originally Posted by in a blue field

using a DI in reverse in an attempt to reamp does not change the impedance... you're playin' with fire...

Yes it does. A DI's purpose is to change impedance, and it's passive, so it does the opposite in reverse. There are instructions in both the ProDI and the JDI Manual on using your DI in reverse as a reamp box. Mic level and line level are both low impedance, they are just a different level, which can be compensated for by bringing down your output fader, or using a pad like the dude said above.

I would buy a reamp box still, though, for the reasons I described in my post above.

[in a blue field]

Originally Posted by aclarson

I'm certain this is correct, besides, it's a very simple box, and all of the "tone" comes from the transformer, which has always been the same very nice Jensen transformer. Don't fret bro, they probably just changed the logo or something.

THANK you, i really appreciate that, i mean it's not like i dont wanna buy the right one the first time, right!

Yes it does. A DI's purpose is to change impedance, and it's passive, so it does the opposite in reverse. There are instructions in both the ProDI and the JDI Manual on using your DI in reverse as a reamp box. Mic level and line level are both low impedance, they are just a different level, which can be compensated for by bringing down your output fader, or using a pad like the dude said above.
I would buy a reamp box still, though, for the reasons I described in my post above.

i should have been more specific - it doesnt change the impedance ENOUGH. the reason is for exactly what you said - having to compensate. and whoever said 50dB is right on, thats no exaggeration. to me that's a total fool's move, to leave it to chance that you might forget one time to do that, same way as everyone forgets to power down/up everything in the right order once in a while and then you get the grounding through your speakers. if the result of speaker grounding was 50dB of noise, we'd all never make that mistake. you're talking about a level that can destroy your gear, your ears, and your relations with the neighbors. better to just get the right box, as you said.

[aclarson]

Originally Posted by in a blue field

i should have been more specific - it doesnt change the impedance ENOUGH. the reason is for exactly what you said - having to compensate. and whoever said 50dB is right on, thats no exaggeration. to me that's a total fool's move, to leave it to chance that you might forget one time to do that, same way as everyone forgets to power down/up everything in the right order once in a while and then you get the grounding through your speakers. if the result of speaker grounding was 50dB of noise, we'd all never make that mistake. you're talking about a level that can destroy your gear, your ears, and your relations with the neighbors. better to just get the right box, as you said.

Actually, the transformer will saturate before any insane levels get to your amp. Theoretically, a strong enough signal could damage the transformer winding, but I wouldn't expect your average balanced output to have enough current capability to hurt it. Most likely it would just be horribly distorted and sound like crap.

But you're right, best to not make that mistake. I did the backwards DI thing a few times and developed a system where I set the track fader for the reamp track so it was bright pink, and saved the track with the fader at -50 to my template, so that way I never have to worry.

[silent-sam]

Originally Posted by aclarson

The Radial boxes do work backwards for reamping because they're passive, but it's less than ideal because the DIs are made to go from guitar level down to mic level, so when you feed it back out at line level, it's 1000x more powerful.

All Radial boxes aren't passive. For example the JDI is passive and the j48 is active.... So if you do buy a Radial DI box, with the intent to use it as an DI box AND a re-amp box, make sure you pick up a JDI or a PRO DI passive DI, and NOT a j48 or a Pro DI active DI.... If you end up with an active box, it won't work backwards.

aclarson is right about the levels though..... If you use the JDI backwards your level may be very hot..... If you check out the actual "re-amp boxes" that radial offers, they have a "level control" built into the output of the box, so you can adjust the level going to your guitar amp..... this way you can be sure that your guitar amp isn't seeing levels that are too hot for it..... a JDI or any other passive DI boxes that were ment to be used as DI boxes only, will not have this.

So if you DO use the JDI or any other passive radial DI box backwards as a re-amp box, make sure you have some sort of level control set up. For example send the signal out a bus and use the bus fader to bring the signal down in level before it leaves pro-tools and hits the DI box.

Also if you aren't using an actual re-amp box, you may experience grounding issues, which will give your guitar signal a wicked buzz. These results may very depending on which kind of passive DI box you use.

I should add that you can get a radial pro DI for 99$ new.... and a Pro re-amp for $99 new. Save up another $40 and you can just get both and not worry about any of this.

[PeteJames]

SOS seems to like BBE products a lot for sound quality but i've near tried them

[Eric Pederson]

Thanks aclarson and others for the great info, like usual.

Am I putting too many eggs in one basket by having 2 Passive DI's as opposed to buying an Active DI (which I dont own yet)

What are Active DI's necessary for?

For passives, I'm leaning towards the Radial D1 for $99
-Should I get the stereo version for an extra $50? (Radial Pro D2).

The input impedance changes from 140kOhms (D1) to 100kOhms (D2) is this an issue for electric guitar?

Thanks again for all the help

[dkelley]

no joke here - the behringer 21 series. for $35 each you can own the bdi-21 bass di with CONVINCING ampeg emulation, xlr out, analog circuitry, very low noise, ground lift, stomp amp sim switch, mix control etc. with the remaing money you can buy the acoustic/piezo version of the same box (also really REALLY amazing at this price and very good at any price), and there are more in the series.

those are exceptional sounding DI boxes. period.

BUT they're built like crap. so it depends on your goal... if longevity with stomp box use in mind or where it WILL get stepped on/dropped etc once in a while.... then just don't buy these. but in a home studio they are REALLY great. and I've gigged live and in the studio with the bdi-21 for bass for a year now without a single issue. So it CAN be done, but I'm pretty careful. I've read of issues with their build quality.

anyway, the sound is honestly spectacular. don't let the brand turn you off. and I wouldn't be without the adi-21 for my ovation acoustic or my electric violin. Never again will I go without this little box. I've made a belt clip mount for it and it lives on my hip when I'm gigging. handy access to all the controls that way.

but they ARE rips of the tech 21 boxes of course. but they do sound a little different, and not in a bad way, just in a "different" way.

EDIT: by the way the other recommendations in this thread are all great and very standard as well. But you owe it to yourself to try the bdi-21 on bass. trust me. plenty of professional bassists have this dirty little secret, and it works great on guitar too.

[zippsinc]

Originally Posted by Eric Pederson

What are Active DI's necessary for?

This would be interesting to hear views on.

Radial sell their reamping kit with the active J48 + X-Amp. I'm just wondering why this is? Why not the JDI + X-Amp? Or, at least have two variants where users can choose which DI they wish to have?

Obviously, I realise buying them separately allows flexibility. It would just be good to hear which users use which (active vs passive) DI for?

Is, for example:


A Passive DI good if you're running into good preamps with plenty of gain?

and

An Active DI good for adding strength to the signal for running into a not so great preamp with less available gain?

[PEImatrix]

For $130, the best DI IMO is a used JDI.

(that's what I bought)

[silent-sam]

Originally Posted by Eric Pederson

For passives, I'm leaning towards the Radial D1 for $99
-Should I get the stereo version for an extra $50? (Radial Pro D2).

Originally Posted by dkelley

no joke here - the behringer 21 series.

I had a Behringer ULTRA-DI DI100 Direct Box (it's active) and went to a music store hoping to pick up a radial j48...... they had none but they did have the Radial Pro DI Passive direct box (the dark green one)

I picked it up thinking it would be a step up.... As much as I hate Berhinger, In my opinion the Behringer ULTRA-DI DI100 Direct Box sounds better....a noticeable amount better. It's only $35. You can get a Radial Pro RMP re-amp box for $99.

So for $134 you can have an active DI and a Passive Re-amp box.

If you can't afford a JDI or a J48 I wouldn't bother spending the extra cash on the Radial "Pro" DI passive DI Box..... It's not that great.

[rty5150]

Originally Posted by silent-sam

I had a Behringer ULTRA-DI DI100 Direct Box (it's active) and went to a music store hoping to pick up a radial j48...... they had none but they did have the Radial Pro DI Passive direct box (the dark green one)

I picked it up thinking it would be a step up.... As much as I hate Berhinger, In my opinion the Behringer ULTRA-DI DI100 Direct Box sounds better....a noticeable amount better. It's only $35. You can get a Radial Pro RMP re-amp box for $99.

So for $134 you can have an active DI and a Passive Re-amp box.

If you can't afford a JDI or a J48 I wouldn't bother spending the extra cash on the Radial "Pro" DI passive DI Box..... It's not that great.

i have several behringer DI's, the DI100, the 2 channel and the 8 channel. those are more problem solvers for me. i have a couple of passive horizon's that i like to use as well, but none of the DI's can hold a candle to the DI's found on my mic pres. are they as clean? no, but i WANT that character from the mic pre. plus the level is easier to control and i get back level and some cool artifacts. the DI in reverse is not something i like. i tried it before i got my x-amp, and it was just disappointing. usable? yes, but on high gain stuff would just be way too noisy. i had to put a hardware gate on it to shut it up. will work better if you don't have high gain stuff pumping through them. the backwards DI loved bass, though. i found that backwards DI's attenuate the high end as well. for bass this isn't as much of a big deal, but for EG...a killer.
just my experience.

for $130, good luck!
i would really look for used. check out musicgoround.com for some stuff. that was where i got my x-amp. i have seen JDI's and RMP's there, too. if you go used, you may be able to find what you need in your price range, but be prepared to cough up just a tad more to make it happen.

[aclarson]

Originally Posted by silent-sam

If you can't afford a JDI or a J48 I wouldn't bother spending the extra cash on the Radial "Pro" DI passive DI Box..... It's not that great.

A passive DI is much more dependant on the pre and instrument than an active, so this may have played a role in your experience.

Many would describe active DIs as being more 'hifi' and passives as being warmer, so there is also a preference aspect when it comes to that, and it varies from one instrument to the next.

The transformer in the ProDI is VERY close in spec to the Jensen in the JDI, it's a very high quality unit, I compared ProDI into the Digimax FS with just using the hi-z input on the Digimax, and it sounded noticably better with the ProDI to me.

That being said, I'm thinking about trying a nicer active box, or maybe doing a DIY one like this:

DIY Pro Audio Equipment - Active Direct Box

[in a blue field]

i just wanted to get back to this thread about my Radial adventure. i am posting this more than anything simply so that when other people are wondering the same thing, they'll be able to search gearslutz and find a definitive answer.

for anyone who thought anything along the lines such as the person who said the problem was with me: 3 of radial's authorized dealers also were unable to answer the question, and said they would get back to me after they themselves contacted the company (so ). Radial themselves got back to me today, with a sincere apology about the tardiness of their response, apparently they had server troubles.

The MK3 is indeed a newer and superior version of the JDI. it is not, as about half of what little i found on the net said, simply a different silk screen. the original's image on their website is simply outdated (happy enough to have received my answer, i held my tongue that 5 minutes in Kompozer could probably get them more business).

quote from mr collins of radial:
The JDI was the first incarnation of the JDI series, and of course the mk3 is the third. Both are great-sounding units, but the newer version has a sturdier build, stereo merge functionality and more.

so if you are buying a JDI without the "phase coherent" and "mk3" insignias, you are indeed buying an old-stock JDI. you'll still be getting a great DI of course, but for those of us who will settle for nothing less than the best we can afford, you must be certain to get the mk3. MAKE SURE YOU CONTACT ANY SELLER OF THE JDI BEFORE MAKING YOUR PURCHASE. a lot of the images and labels are indeed mixed up on some of the sites, and there's apparently no reason in this case why the sellers have any more info than you or i (until now, of course). if you even plug it into a google shopping search, you'll come up with mismatched images and labels left and right. you might think you're ordering the MK3, but instead you might get what the seller believes is an MK3 with a different silk screen. there is no different art work - if you get a JDI that does not say MK3 on it, it is not the MK3. that is all - peace be with you

[Eric Pederson]

Originally Posted by aclarson

Many would describe active DIs as being more 'hifi' and passives as being warmer, so there is also a preference aspect when it comes to that, and it varies from one instrument to the next.

Based on this, I feel like I should get an active DI so I have a choice of passive or active and can try both on sources.

I will probably shoot for the Radial Pro48 Active DI Box for $139, just a little higher than was I was looking to pay. I'm fine with buying new since I'm sure I'll use it for a long time.

And for re-amping I like the idea of using my Horizon Passive DI (backwards) with some sort of ANALOG attenuation beforehand.... Till I have the cash for a nice Reamp Box

[PEImatrix]

Originally Posted by in a blue field

i just wanted to get back to this thread about my Radial adventure. i am posting this more than anything simply so that when other people are wondering the same thing, they'll be able to search gearslutz and find a definitive answer.

for anyone who thought anything along the lines such as the person who said the problem was with me: 3 of radial's authorized dealers also were unable to answer the question, and said they would get back to me after they themselves contacted the company (so ). Radial themselves got back to me today, with a sincere apology about the tardiness of their response, apparently they had server troubles.

The MK3 is indeed a newer and superior version of the JDI. it is not, as about half of what little i found on the net said, simply a different silk screen. the original's image on their website is simply outdated (happy enough to have received my answer, i held my tongue that 5 minutes in Kompozer could probably get them more business).

quote from mr collins of radial:
The JDI was the first incarnation of the JDI series, and of course the mk3 is the third. Both are great-sounding units, but the newer version has a sturdier build, stereo merge functionality and more.

so if you are buying a JDI without the "phase coherent" and "mk3" insignias, you are indeed buying an old-stock JDI. you'll still be getting a great DI of course, but for those of us who will settle for nothing less than the best we can afford, you must be certain to get the mk3. MAKE SURE YOU CONTACT ANY SELLER OF THE JDI BEFORE MAKING YOUR PURCHASE. a lot of the images and labels are indeed mixed up on some of the sites, and there's apparently no reason in this case why the sellers have any more info than you or i (until now, of course). if you even plug it into a google shopping search, you'll come up with mismatched images and labels left and right. you might think you're ordering the MK3, but instead you might get what the seller believes is an MK3 with a different silk screen. there is no different art work - if you get a JDI that does not say MK3 on it, it is not the MK3. that is all - peace be with you

You still might be off a little with your facts. I have the second version of the JDI that was in still in the old style box. The third gen switched enclosures and added an extra amount of attenuation, which allowed you to plug it in between your amp and cab. I think they then changed the name and a few other things (V3.1 maybe LOL). Really IMO the Jensen tranny is really the only thing that matters.

The JDI is WICKED!

[in a blue field]

Originally Posted by PEImatrix

You still might be off a little with your facts. I have the second version of the JDI that was in still in the old style box. The third gen switched enclosures and added an extra amount of attenuation, which allowed you to plug it in between your amp and cab. I think they then changed the name and a few other things (V3.1 maybe LOL). Really IMO the Jensen tranny is really the only thing that matters.

The JDI is WICKED!

i encourage you and all JDI users to contact radial and ask the same question i did! who knows, maybe mr collins smoka da rox (i'm joking of course). the quote i pulled was straight from my email tho; it is perhaps possible that for a while they were out of the MK3 silkscreen, and so there are some MK3s which were released with the old artwork? <--- please note the question mark
if you or anyone else makes contact with radial about this, plz post your findings here (tho i'm not looking forward to the headache i'll have if we get multiple people from Radial telling us two different things )