Quality improvement

[scotthc]

Hi,
I want to improve the audio quality of my recordings and find out where the weak points might be in my current set up or... if I should just shut up and go with what I've got. I'm not getting the depth of mixes that I hear on other stuff that I'm listening to. Anyhow here's my stuff:
Studio Projects C-3 vocal
Rode NT-5's
SM-57's
into
Presonus Digimax FS
into
RME 9652
into
Cubase 5
on an ADK audio computer

I also have an 1176 and FMR RNC

I've seriously been considering selling the presonous digimax units and upgrading to the steinberg MRX units but before I do anything I'd like to get your input. Thank you
Scott

[antoniosolo]

I bet you aren't using compressors yet and also that you are recording too hot. And you need to aux and pan vocals and eq your keys and pretty much everything like that........

[scotthc]

Wow... I dont even know how to respond to that. Of course I'm using slight compression going in. And I certainly dont think that using the K-14 input i.e. Bob Katz's recommendation is too hot (he actually said that the level could be as low as K-20). My question had nothing to do with mixing per your quote "aux and pan vocals and eq your keys and pretty much everything like that........ " I was just trying to find out what the percieved weak link in my hardware chain was so that I can make an informed upgrade investment. Thanks.
Scott

[RTR]

I bet you aren't using compressors yet

You must have missed the last part of his post...he uses an 1176 (I wish I had one) and an RNC so, I think he is good for compression!

[Mr.HOLMES]

Am missing a nice mic preamp in this LIST.
You use the shitty china mic pres of the presonus?

Get one of these:

PRE-73

A Neve clone on a budget....you can order at Golden Age Music...

[antoniosolo]

Starting over, you mention depth of mixes, this takes time and either insertable outboard gear or plugins. The weak link in my humble opinion is software compressors, and a highend mic pre. I apologize if I seem overbearing in my previous opinion, but what you have should work, you gotta make it work. And mix engineers take it from there....

[RTR]

Originally Posted by Mr.HOLMES

Am missing a nice mic preamp in this LIST.
You use the shitty china mic pres of the presonus?

Get one of these:

PRE-73

A Neve clone on a budget....you can order at Golden Age Music...

+1..The GAP is a very nice low budget neve type pre!

[aclarson]

What's your room like? Biggest improvement I've ever made is acoustic treatment.

What monitors are you using?

What all instruments are you recording with what you have? What style?

How the hell are these other guys recommending all this stuff without knowing the answers to these questions?

Many say the C1/C3 is kinda brittle on the high-end, many of us low-enders like dynamics for vocals, I like my SM7 on vocals, and I also use a Digimax FS. I used to use 57 or SP B1 for vocals, and the SM7 was a MAJOR upgrade. But I'm sure the C3 would work fine for a lot of things.

[electraplay]

A high quality Pre is the missing link in your chain, however, I love my digimax FS. I use it more as a utility pre but it is clean IMO and I have had good results. You mention the lack of depth in your mixes and using a variety of pre's (solid state and tube) and software comps during mixdown will help greatly. I don't believe you would perceive any noticeable difference from moving from the RME to the Steinberg.

[Crash]

Originally Posted by aclarson

What's your room like? Biggest improvement I've ever made is acoustic treatment.

What monitors are you using?

What all instruments are you recording with what you have? What style?

How the hell are these other guys recommending all this stuff without knowing the answers to these questions?

We are on the same page.....

[scotthc]

Hi,
I actually spent all my money on the room... Thinking the same way you all do.
Thanks all for the reply's. All photos can be seen at graybrookstudio.com
Scott

[Chrisc_o]

It is actually impossible to properly assess a situation as this without a clip.

Post a clip of one of your mixes, any comments before hearing your work are completely useless.

[scotthc]

Hi,
I still have some problems with my room even after spending $7K plus in treatments from an unnamed company and using their design recommendations. I have finally found a consultant to come in and assess the situation and hopefully I can make changes that will improve the EQ. Anyhow I recently purchase the SM7 and like it. I am currently using Paradigm Monitor 3's as my monitors and am thinking that a better set of monitors should probably come before a preamp upgrade (I'm probably going to go the SCA route). The monitors I'm looking at are Blue Sky Audio "Sky One System", Focal cms65, B&W 685. Does this sound like I'm heading in the right direction? Blue Sky offered to send the speakers for a demo but I'm 4 hours away from any other places I could go to listen and choose. Any recommendations in the $1200-$1800 range? The musical genres are all over the place in my studio ranging from folky acoustic to hardcore grunge and everything in between. I really need to get the best transfers in my mixes so as to cut down my mix times. Thanks so much for your help and experience!
Scott

[Robbie777]

Originally Posted by scotthc

Presonus Digimax FS
into
RME 9652
into
Cubase 5
on an ADK audio computer

I also have an 1176 and FMR RNC

I've seriously been considering selling the presonous digimax units and upgrading to the steinberg MRX units but before I do anything I'd like to get your input. Thank you
Scott

Yes your pres dont add up to your other gear....a fmr rnp or even a Focuusrite isa one would be a huge improvment, but you may need more pres, that will add up getting 8 quailty preamps...NEVER under estimate a good/great preamp for quality recordings it makes a world of difference...

room acoustics make for such a better recording as well, gives it more depth than close micking everything, also using ambience room mics adds so much in my case...wish i had a larger space like you have for this

[Crash]

Originally Posted by scotthc

Hi,
I still have some problems with my room even after spending $7K plus in treatments from an unnamed company and using their design recommendations. I have finally found a consultant to come in and assess the situation and hopefully I can make changes that will improve the EQ.
Scott

I wonder if the consultant will tell you to take the foam off the walls. I find this stuff to be nothing like rigid fiberglass for control.

[scotthc]

Me too... Thats going to get really interesting as all of the foam is hung with the 3M adhesive. Anyone know how to get this off without destroying sheetrock? I'm hoping that I can do some DIY trapping to get this where it needs to be. I've got a bump at 120Hz and a rolloff at 8K. And the moral of the story is-be careful who you trust.

[DaveE]

In all honesty, I've heard some pretty sweet recordings made with lesser gear. Yeah you can be a true slut and get more, but you can get things done with what you've got.

If "depth" is your goal, I've gotta ask: are you recording room mics? The best way to capture depth is to record a direct mic+room mic (as far away as possible keeping phase coherency in mind). You can enhance the effect further by eq'ing and or compressing the room mic. Try it on drums or clean guitar to startthumbsup

[scotthc]

Hi,
I haven't done a lot with room mics because I didnt feel the room sounded very good and I wanted to get it fixed up to where it should be. I have just ordered the stereo fathead blumlein pair and I'm excited to mic up the room with those. It certainly could just be my lack of experience too. As for the slutty part I'm 100% slutty when it comes to gear and really am on a mission to get a classy room and gear going strong. Thanks.
Scott

[moon_unit]

Your acoustic situation looks like a nighmare, and I wouldn't want to touch it with a ten-foot poll.

Looking at the pics of your room .. the fact that you actually paid someone to have you stick foam on the wall, is rather alarming. I'm sure it helps with the flutter echo from the hard-wood floor, but I would imagine that, given the size your room appears to be - it would be a drop in the bucket.

I would try thowing area rugs on at least a portion of the floor. That would probably help dampen things just a bit; but don't over-do it. Hardwood floors aren't a bad thing by any stretch, but you have to be careful not to let them take over the sound.

The shape of your room actually isn't bad at all; you don't have a lot of parallel surfaces, and that's great. Here's what I would do; your ceiling isn't exceptionally high, so I would line your entire ceiling with thick, Corning 703 rigid fiberglass insulation, and I wouldn't leave an inch uncovered. From there, I would throw area rugs to cover maybe 30% to 40% of your floor and leave the rest exposed. The diffusor panels are probably just fine, so I would leave them up.

Aside from helping with some of the low end peaks you've got, I think this would help "tighten" your soud a bit, and give you more control. You might even keep a closet full of packing blankets, along with some spare wedges of the rigid fiberglass insulation (make some "hangable" panels out of them). That way, you can pull them out when you need some extra dampening ... or you can pull off the area rugs and take a few things down when you want more room reflections. Give yourself a little extra situational control.

But in short, the low ceiling / hardwood floor thing is kind of a dangerous combination; if you could essentially take your ceiling out of the equation with rigid fiberglass ... that would go a very long way, and you could have a great-sounding room. That thin foam stuff you have up there now just isn't going to cut it I'm afraid.

[Chrisc_o]

Wow, still no clips?

I'll refresh my statement that this entire thread is an exercise in futility without being able to hear what the issue is.


Blather on if you insist....

[scotthc]

Hi,
I actually built the entire room myself (4 yrs.) per the Acoustics101 guidelines.
Thanks for the tips and I'll post what the consultant recommends. I think I'll try to cover any foam that I need to remove with some artsy paint scheme or whatever.
What kind of clips are going to inform you on the deficiencies of my room?
Scott

[scotthc]

I should let you know. 18' x 25' x 11' ceilings. Ceiling has 2" thick foam covering 1/4" perforated pressboard with 2 layers of 2" mineral wool and another layer of pink insulation. A very large hemholz type resonator/bass trap. If you look close you'll see the collar ties.
Scott