Preamp noise level comparison of Zoom H4/H4n and Edirol R-4

[mdopp]

For those interested: I have just finished a comparison of preamp noise of these three recorders: Field Recorder Preamp Noise.
Hope this helps.
Martin

[mdopp]

I have now also added a comparison of harmonic distortions when recording line signals over the 1/4" TRS inputs. In short: The Zoom H4n performs badly at its lowest record level setting. You would have to increase the record level to 40 or so (and reduce your input signal accordingly) to get a more or less distortion free recording. More on my web page.

[JoeDeF]

Thanks for taking the time to document your findings, Martin.

Joe

[Ethan Winer]

Originally Posted by mdopp

For those interested: I have just finished a comparison of preamp noise of these three recorders

Wow, that's great! Thanks for doing all that work and posting the results for all to see. Mic preamp noise is my one disappointment when I bought a Zoom H2. I don't use it to record anything critical, but the noise should be 10 to 20 dB lower than it is.

--Ethan

[.T.]

Thanks Martin... I own a H4n and have been curious how it compares to others on the market. I've been planning to do some recordings using it and there's food for thought now on how to get the cleanest recording from it.

I know you mentioned your H4 is modded... has anyone looked into improving any aspects on the H4n (that you know of)?

[EricF]

Thanks for sharing this. I appreciate the tip about using the 50hz roll-off filter.

[mdopp]

Originally Posted by .T.

I know you mentioned your H4 is modded... has anyone looked into improving any aspects on the H4n (that you know of)?

No, unfortunately I don't know a solution to this distortion problem (other than avoiding the unbalanced inputs and using the XLRs instead).
I have now emailed Zoom Japan and asked for their comments. If they reply, I'll post it.
Anyway, I was so disappointed with the device I have now bought a Sony PCM-D50. Not as many features as the Zoom, but pristine sound.

[Spec]

thanks for the info.

i am thinking seriously about the sony you mentioned.

my question: some report that the sony mics are too senstaive (bumps in the recording from hand movements) for hand held recordings and that the typod is the one way to go.

any experiences with that?

thanks

spek

[Chippy569]

I know this thread is old as dirt, so sorry about the thread bump, but I have a question about your findings. On the Zoom, with the harmonic distortion tests, they were all done with the 1/4 TRS input. Is the XLR input different? I'm curious as you switched from one test to the other.

[iLCacciLLo]

Originally Posted by Chippy569

I know this thread is old as dirt, so sorry about the thread bump, but I have a question about your findings. On the Zoom, with the harmonic distortion tests, they were all done with the 1/4 TRS input. Is the XLR input different? I'm curious as you switched from one test to the other.

The problem with this unit is that it doesn't have "Balanced Line Inputs" or any Line Inputs at all.

It has 2 Balanced Mic inputs or 2 Unbalanced Instrument Level Inputs, both are really different than Balanced Line Level, that is a much stronger signal.

I'm a FOH Engineer and bought this unit so I could record the mix straight from the mixing desk line outputs and a stereo Ambience of the track with the built in microphones, this is a really good way of recording a straight up stereo mix of the gig.
Because you have the definition of the desk mix and the ambience and lively sound of the venue(more bass also) into 4 separate tracks, that you can after mix together as you wish.

The problem with this unit is that I can't connect a desk output to it , because outputs are line level, and doesn't matter how low the preamp input is or the desk output level is, it always distorts.

The Built in Ambience Mics distort also by themselves easily at a gig, the distortions is not from the recording levels but from the mics it self.

Solutions:

- Using a Line Level to Mic Level PAD (40dbs) attenuator to connect between the Mixing desk outputs and the XLR Mic inputs of the Zoom
I will try this one next, hope this will solve the problem

- Built in mics, Don't know if the foam/wind-shield zoom made for this recorder will help in preventing the mic capsules from moving too much and distorting.
Will Try this one also

Bypassing this microphones unfortunately is only possible using the mini jack/unbalanced mic inputs, that is made for mini disk stereo type microphones,
so another solution could be to use a good Minidisk microphone to see if it stands better and doesn't distort, but anyway I dont know if there are any minikis stereo microphones that are better than the Zoom's built in ones, probabaly none of them are any good.


Overall I have to say I'm a bit disappointed, and as I already carry my laptop to the gigs, I think if it was today I would by for half the Zoom's cost an external USB sound-card with 4 inputs and record the gigs for the laptop hard drive with Protools or Nuendo, just had to make sure I would take also 2 SD condenser mics for the Stereo Ambience.
The quality level would be much higher for a lower price.