Frindle DSM Help

[deadroom]

I have been playing around with the DSM by Frindle and it is amazing for sure.
It just pretty much instantly makes what Im doing sound so much better.

My question is, I am using it on my Master buss, guitar buss and drum buss and my end result in terms of "loudness" and "energy" is better than ever before but its making my drums sound kind of "plastic" for lack of a better description; Any remedy for this?

It's amazingly apparent when im recording metal, the kick drum loses the the depth (balls, if you will) and is all "click".

I generally compress my overheads and room, and drumagog the kick and snare with samples of the players kit, and then send them all to a drum buss where I load the DSM and hit capture and play with the threshold and gain.

Another question, is using the DSM on a guitar buss somthing it was designed to do?
I am a noob and am not certain if guitar compression is somthing that everyone does everytime, or if you really just compress guitars per taste and style of music?
It seems like with all the fast metal, and heavily distorted punk guitars I am tracking that compressing them ala "DSM" makes them sound closest to what Im used to hearing heavy guitars sound like on my favorite records.

Thank you in advance for your help.

[Paul Frindle]

Originally Posted by deadroom

I have been playing around with the DSM by Frindle and it is amazing for sure.
It just pretty much instantly makes what Im doing sound so much better.

My question is, I am using it on my Master buss, guitar buss and drum buss and my end result in terms of "loudness" and "energy" is better than ever before but its making my drums sound kind of "plastic" for lack of a better description; Any remedy for this?

It's amazingly apparent when im recording metal, the kick drum loses the the depth (balls, if you will) and is all "click".

I generally compress my overheads and room, and drumagog the kick and snare with samples of the players kit, and then send them all to a drum buss where I load the DSM and hit capture and play with the threshold and gain.

The loss of weight to the kick sound may be caused if it is prominent in the mix and the DSM attack time is too fast? In this case it can simply round off and compress the LF before it has had a chance to sound.

I would suggest that you try increasing the attack time and reducing that gain a little to compensate. It is also helpful to increase the 'LF ATT' control as this slows down the attack of the LF wrt the HF.. Also using lower ratio settings (and greater curve settings) can help considerably, as the effect of the DSM will be reduced appropriately to blend with the track.

Another question, is using the DSM on a guitar buss somthing it was designed to do?

Yes, for the bass it can make some very useful compression and add to the MF overtones that often characterise the bass sound. But it can be difficult to capture the bass sound as the peaks tend to be short lived. Sometimes it can be more useful to start with the 'pink' set-up and adjust the freq content with the EQ style controls instead. The 'pink' setting on its own will give you a fairly twangy sound with lots of overtones - you can then reduce them by using some cut in the upper mid ranges around 2 - 4KHz on the EQ style controls.

I am a noob and am not certain if guitar compression is somthing that everyone does everytime, or if you really just compress guitars per taste and style of music?
It seems like with all the fast metal, and heavily distorted punk guitars I am tracking that compressing them ala "DSM" makes them sound closest to what Im used to hearing heavy guitars sound like on my favorite records.

A subject very close to my heart :-) This depends really. For unsaturated guitars the dynamic range can be large depending on how they are played and compression is very often used to tame this. But for heavily saturated guitars there is very little dynamic range and compressors are used more for effect rather than level control.

Because the DSM can impose modifications to the Freq content and dynamics, some really great effects in sweetening, softening and character changes can be obtained with guitars. The included guitar set-ups are some of the most impressive of all IMVHO. It has lots of complex freq action in the MF and HF regions where guitars are most prominent and the nature of the freq splitting process produces some very pleasing analogue sounding textures with faster attack and release times.

For saturated 'wall of sound' style guitars frequency content is absolutely crucial! This very complex mash of frequencies and harmonics caused by the instrument, over-driven amps, speakers and cabinets is very subtle and quite fragile. The difference between a great sound and a disappointing ear-jarring 'harshness' is surprisingly small IMLE and trying to get there with EQ and dynamics alone on an already recorded track is something that always takes ages and ultimately never really satisfies.. :-(

IMVHO the DSM really excels at this (as you have found out), because capturing the sound of 'something like what you want' and applying it to your track as a starting point is more effective than hours messing with EQ and comps manually. This is because the response it can come up with is far more detailed and dense than a great many bands of EQ - and grabbing it from something that exists already is far more accurate than you can manage with EQs and your ears alone.

To get the best results, do the capture of your source sound using a fast attack and slow release, (to get as much of the original nuance and peaks as possible). Save the set-up and apply this to your destination track.

If you don't want the compression and are interested only in the character - let the DSM do it's thing and at the instant in the track the sound is exactly how you want it, hit the FREEZE GAINS. It will then apply this response (which is a complex result of the original captured sound - as applied to your track - whilst tracking the dynamics of your track in real time) as a static complex EQ :-)

Sorry for the long reply, I don't want to sound like I'm talking up our own app by getting over enthusiastic - but I simply love this stuff :-)

[imaginaryday]

dear paul,

i own a huge cd collection that consists of every genera of music you can think of. yesterday i started extraction eq curves from the once i like and for me to have as presets. my question is: what is the best way to capture them as good as possible?

once again, thank you for this exciting new tool. not only it's a fantastic mixing and mastering tool, but it also allows me to study pro commercial mix for me to learn from.Cheers.

[Paul Frindle]

Originally Posted by imaginaryday

dear paul,

i own a huge cd collection that consists of every genera of music you can think of. yesterday i started extraction eq curves from the once i like and for me to have as presets. my question is: what is the best way to capture them as good as possible?

once again, thank you for this exciting new tool. not only it's a fantastic mixing and mastering tool, but it also allows me to study pro commercial mix for me to learn from.Cheers.

I understand.

The best way to capture this stuff depends on what aspect of it most defines the sound..

The most accurate frequency content overall (in an absolute sense) is achieved with fast attack and slow release time settings with quite a long capture period. This is because the capture uses the same time constants as the compressor settings (so they match) and so a longer release will give you more peak average information of the source music. This is best when it's the overall frequency content that defines what you want from the capture most.

For stuff that is more defined by it's dynamic content, changing the attack and release times to most suit the style of the music being captured will be more effective at getting the same vibe from the destination tracks when you re-apply it. The frequency content is still there of course, but it will now be changing quite rapidly when you capture and again when you re-apply it.

For this kind of work I find it best to hold down the capture during the most stylised part of the source track (often the loudest parts) - because this maps better onto the the destination program when re-applied later..

Of course these are not hard and fast rules - and you can do all sorts of creative stuff with the time constants and freq controls to get effects that suit things best, or just producing entirely novel things on the fly.

I hope this makes sense and helps :-)

[deadroom]

Originally Posted by Paul Frindle

The loss of weight to the kick sound may be caused if it is prominent in the mix and the DSM attack time is too fast? In this case it can simply round off and compress the LF before it has had a chance to sound.

I would suggest that you try increasing the attack time and reducing that gain a little to compensate. It is also helpful to increase the 'LF ATT' control as this slows down the attack of the LF wrt the HF.. Also using lower ratio settings (and greater curve settings) can help considerably, as the effect of the DSM will be reduced appropriately to blend with the track.



Yes, for the bass it can make some very useful compression and add to the MF overtones that often characterise the bass sound. But it can be difficult to capture the bass sound as the peaks tend to be short lived. Sometimes it can be more useful to start with the 'pink' set-up and adjust the freq content with the EQ style controls instead. The 'pink' setting on its own will give you a fairly twangy sound with lots of overtones - you can then reduce them by using some cut in the upper mid ranges around 2 - 4KHz on the EQ style controls.



A subject very close to my heart :-) This depends really. For unsaturated guitars the dynamic range can be large depending on how they are played and compression is very often used to tame this. But for heavily saturated guitars there is very little dynamic range and compressors are used more for effect rather than level control.

Because the DSM can impose modifications to the Freq content and dynamics, some really great effects in sweetening, softening and character changes can be obtained with guitars. The included guitar set-ups are some of the most impressive of all IMVHO. It has lots of complex freq action in the MF and HF regions where guitars are most prominent and the nature of the freq splitting process produces some very pleasing analogue sounding textures with faster attack and release times.

For saturated 'wall of sound' style guitars frequency content is absolutely crucial! This very complex mash of frequencies and harmonics caused by the instrument, over-driven amps, speakers and cabinets is very subtle and quite fragile. The difference between a great sound and a disappointing ear-jarring 'harshness' is surprisingly small IMLE and trying to get there with EQ and dynamics alone on an already recorded track is something that always takes ages and ultimately never really satisfies.. :-(

IMVHO the DSM really excels at this (as you have found out), because capturing the sound of 'something like what you want' and applying it to your track as a starting point is more effective than hours messing with EQ and comps manually. This is because the response it can come up with is far more detailed and dense than a great many bands of EQ - and grabbing it from something that exists already is far more accurate than you can manage with EQs and your ears alone.

To get the best results, do the capture of your source sound using a fast attack and slow release, (to get as much of the original nuance and peaks as possible). Save the set-up and apply this to your destination track.

If you don't want the compression and are interested only in the character - let the DSM do it's thing and at the instant in the track the sound is exactly how you want it, hit the FREEZE GAINS. It will then apply this response (which is a complex result of the original captured sound - as applied to your track - whilst tracking the dynamics of your track in real time) as a static complex EQ :-)

Sorry for the long reply, I don't want to sound like I'm talking up our own app by getting over enthusiastic - but I simply love this stuff :-)

I can say with the utmost sincerity that your plug has made a literal night and day difference in my sound for the better. Even my clients notice it!