Need advice on where to invest next (preamp / mic for hiphop)

[caspman]

Hi everybody,

I've been lurking around for a while, quietly absorbing all the knowledge floating around here…. it's just amazing, really. Keep it up guys, especially the professionals that still take their time to help out the beginners!

Well… I need a short recommendation… I'm on a tight budget here since I don't have to money for pro equipment in the next 12 months at least.

I'm recording my own voice for hip hop vocals, the style is rather cold and concious.
There's an older song where u can hear a recording done with my current equipment to get an impression of my voice colour : www.hrratil.net/sound/funprojekt%20dezember.mp3

Now my current chain goes like this :
Shure SM58 directly into the Edirol FA-101 into Cubase SL3. I'm recording in my bedroom so there's no sophisticated accoustics.

I also own (cuz I'm actually a drummer xD)
Shure SM57, 2x Rode NT-5, some AKG dualhead bassdrum mic… I thought of trying the SM57 for vocals but I think there I really would need a preamp with some extra gain.

My question now is.. can I even improve in comparison to the built-in preamp of my interface on a small budget? I really just want that tube sound– it doesn't have to be studiolike or anything.

My total budget is around 1000$. I thought of something like ~300-600$ for a mic and a 150$ preamp. If the preamp of my interface is "good enough" I can also get a better mic if u say that's gonna provide the bigger improvement. I'm really lost on judging my builtin preamps here since I cannot compare to anything.

So those options came to my mind :

Stick to the Edirol + good microfone (e.g. AKG C-214 or maybe even Shure SM-7B ?)

New preamp + SM 57/58 (would leave a lot of money for the preamp, but still not enough for the really good ones like Great Rive / Neve or anything… which I consider just because I wouldn't lose too much money if ever sell it again… of course it's over to top for someone with my skill level and accoustics)

New preamp + new microfone… here I would really need some recommendations since I cannot go and lend stuff to try it at home. I just have to take a leap into the dark. Worst thing that can happen is that I'm not happy… that's fine. I have quite a good job so I can afford to "waste" some money while getting deeper into the whole recording thing.


So if you can give me any advice, tell me something I haven't thought of… whatever. I greatly appreciate any input!

Thanks a lot and best wishes from switzerland where it's fu**ing cold right now…
casp

[scottyjneilson]

If you are anything like myself and dont have a huge amount of money to spend judging from your $1000 budget i would say yes. I would go pre FIRST then mic. There are shootouts on this forum that do exactly that. Your mic is important but i would say if you are doing hiphop/rap your pre is going to be very important. I would recomend that you get yourself a UA 610 single channel All tube preamp, its good and thick and runs about $700 then take that other $300 and get yourself a BLUE bluebird condenser mic, that will give you a solid front end until you can save up for a better converter. I have used the Universal audio 610 and love it for hip hop, its smooth and very fat sounding, The mic is great very detailed as well i do not own one but have done sessions at a buddies studio with that as the main vocal mic, great for male and femal vox

[Blast9]

Perhaps look into AT mics as you're in Europe e.g. 4047/, and maybe something like a DAV BG1 mic pre, or GAP-73?

[gregor_wilson]

Hey there, I know this is an old thread, but I have a couple of quick tips on this subject. If anyone hasn't already heard about this, it can save a ton of money for broke-a$$ dudes and dudettes trying to decide what gear to buy!

The place where you can make the most difference in sound quality is ALWAYS the earliest in the signal chain!!!! That is THE single best piece of advice I have to offer anyone who records anything! The reason for this is very simple: you cannot "fix" a bad sound once it gets into the signal chain. For example, the signal chain for Caspman's setup is as follows:

Vocalist / rapper -> Microphone -> Mic Cable -> Edirol interface (currently acting as preamp) -> Firewire cable -> Firewire card -> Cubase.

Obviously you can't use a crummy RadioShack karaoke mic and expect to "fix" the sound once it gets into Cubase. That's an extreme example, I know, but it illustrates the point pretty well: You can make a BAD recording of a GOOD source (the greatest Neumann mics will still be too quiet if you don't turn them up enough) but you CANNOT make a GOOD recording of a BAD source (a RadioShack mic on the best Neve console cranked as loud as it goes will still just sound like a loud RadioShack mic).

The key trick here is that the earlier you fix a problem, the less likely it is to become a problem - and don't forget the performer is the EARLIEST part of the signal chain! A great drummer on a bad drumset will always sound better than a bad drummer on a great drumset. You get the idea.

For this reason I recommend that in the Mic vs. Mic-preamp investment conundrum, mic should always win, by merit of being earlier in the signal chain. Try this test: using the same preamp, listen to a Shure SM-58 vs. any large diaphragm condenser (even budget-line ones like the $100 CAD 2200 or AT-2020), and you will notice a much bigger difference in quality than you would if you listen to a single mic on two different preamps.

One final tip, directly addressing Caspman's consideration of using a Shure SM-57 instead of 58: they are electrically identical. They're the exact same mic with two different grills! The grill changes the polar shape of the mic somewhat by rearranging the angles from which sound waves can approach the diaphragm, but in terms of frequency response, output level, and all other particulars, they're identical. The real money-saver knowledge here is that you can use an SM-58 as an SM-57 (but not the other way around) without having to buy two separate mics - just take the grill off the 58 and place it behind a pop screen (to protect the exposed diaphragm) and the 58 will sound just like the 57! (Note that this doesn't work as well if you only own an SM 57 - the grill on the 57 is not as easy to remove, and the body isn't threaded to receive a 58 grill - for this reason, if you are trying to decide whether to buy a 58 or a 57 first, GET THE 58 - IT CAN BE BOTH!!).