Preamp, A/D convertors, what´s what?. General advice for a noob.

carayo · 27th October 2009, 02:31 PM

Hi:
I know this has probably been answered a million times but I can´t get the precise answer. This forum is great so I thought i´d try...

I´m looking to upgrade my setup to get a better sound, but I´m having a hard time understanding some basic concepts.

I´ll start with my current setup:
- iMac (latest release)
- M-Audio Ozone (USB Controller/Audio Interface)
- Alto preamp
- Modifief Oktava condenser microphone. (Very happy with it by the way, I bought it after extensive research in this forum).

I´m looking into a more cristaline/pro sound and I´m pretty sure my M-Audio Ozone needs to go (or just use it for midi). But I´m very confused about the preamp, converters, etc.
If I use the Alto (will come back to that later) as the preamp, is the Ozone´s preamp not working aswell?. Or just by not using the Phantom on the M-Audio is it being bypassed?. Im having trouble understanding the basic flow here... From reading around I´m assuming you need both a good preamp (external or integrated in card) and good A/D converters to get a decent sound.

Now by sections:
- Oktava Mic - As I said, I just bought it so it stays!!. Would love to hear your opinion though...
- Alto Preamp - alto - Alto, Music Passion Design - MINI TUBE . Is it good enough, does it make a huge difference?. I´ve only herad it with my Ozone, I don´t know if it would sound better with proper A/D convertors.
- Ozone - I´m assuming it´s "for beginners" and I could get a much better (cristaline and precise) sound.
- I also have a 16 channel Mackie mixer (with preamps, etc) which I´m not using at the moment (pretty useless with the Ozone). So I want an interface with multiple outputs (8...) to route through the mackie.

What to do with a limited budget? (Say around 600€).
- I´ll only be using 1/2 inputs but want outputs for the mixer. I´ve read here about RME and Echo Audiofire which look promising, but I need more the outputs than the inputs (Audiofire has 12 in and 12 out).
- Are the pre´s on Mackies better than the interface´s?. Which should I use?. Maybe use the pre´s on the Mackie and route it to the card?.

I hope this post is not as messy as my knowledge on the matter. Thanks for reading and extra thanks for your advice!!.

Chris Lago · 27th October 2009, 02:56 PM

What type of speakers are you using? Without proper speakers, you wouldn't hear a difference between AD/DA to be honest with you.

erosconpollo · 27th October 2009, 03:34 PM

Converters: the Ozone has okay conversion. Sure you can do better but I wouldn't worry too much on that account.

Preamps: Ozone actually has a pretty decent built-in preamp with a good amount of gain. I don't know the Alto but the M-Audio is likely to be cleaner. And you should be able to use both if you run the Alto in through the line level/instrument input. Two different flavors.

Of course you can do better but what you have is certainly usable. And you do have a good mike in the Oktava. I love my 319s...but if you're going to use both preamps simultaneously you're going to need another one, aren't you?

carayo · 27th October 2009, 04:05 PM

Thanks for your answers!!.

- I currently mix with headphones, I have lousy neighbors... they´re high-end AKG´s and I´m used to them. I work with them and then listen in different speakers, etc.

Any advices about the Mackie board?. Is it a whim?. I want to use it for EQ, routing, mixing, plugin in guitar pedals as effects... More of a "hands on" feeling. That´s why i´d need more outputs on my interface.
Are preamps on Mackies (as I said a pretty nice 16 channel one) better than Ozone´s?.
Also (thanks erosconpollo...) if I was to plug the Alto preamp output into the mic input of the Ozone, instead of instrument input, would I be using 2 preamps?, or does it have to do with the phantom power?.

Thanks for your advice. I´m hyped to see where I end up!!

**Blast9** · 27th October 2009, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carayo

I have lousy neighbors... they´re high-end AKG´s

LOL That made me laugh

-

Anyway back to being serious -

You're after "crystalline" sound -

It is very possible that the AKG headphones are giving you a false "picture" -

They may be too bright sounding - therefore your mixes won't have enough upper mids and high end.... So your mixes could be sounding muffled or slightly dull < just a thought...

What model is the Mackie?

I think the Mackie Onyx preamps are great - Clear with lots of headroom.

I'm not a fan of the Mackie VLZ preamps... They can sound harsh and thin/scratchy

-

With any cheaper interface it is the analog path that is likely to let you down sonically... perhaps the sound is flat and lifeless... or muddy... or you may be dealing with low headroom, which is causing distortion

The quality of the converter chip itself is probably more than acceptable.

-

carayo · 27th October 2009, 05:23 PM

I don´t know the Mackie model. I´ll check it tonight after chating at work with you guys instead of working...
It´s a mid-90´s model in good condition.

I know I don´t have the best listening enviroment (headphones, etc) but I´m going after getting the best source material. I can always do the final mix in a studio... I mean, headphones will alter the way I hear a recorded acoustic guitar, but the recording´s quality itself is what I´m trying to change. I´ll be recording mostly acoustic guitar and vocals, which are think would benefit from an increase in quality, being very sensible material

Thanks again.

27th October 2009, 02:31 PM	#1
carayo Gear interested Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 16	Preamp, A/D convertors, what´s what?. General advice for a noob. Hi: I know this has probably been answered a million times but I can´t get the precise answer. This forum is great so I thought i´d try... I´m looking to upgrade my setup to get a better sound, but I´m having a hard time understanding some basic concepts. I´ll start with my current setup: - iMac (latest release) - M-Audio Ozone (USB Controller/Audio Interface) - Alto preamp - Modifief Oktava condenser microphone. (Very happy with it by the way, I bought it after extensive research in this forum). I´m looking into a more cristaline/pro sound and I´m pretty sure my M-Audio Ozone needs to go (or just use it for midi). But I´m very confused about the preamp, converters, etc. If I use the Alto (will come back to that later) as the preamp, is the Ozone´s preamp not working aswell?. Or just by not using the Phantom on the M-Audio is it being bypassed?. Im having trouble understanding the basic flow here... From reading around I´m assuming you need both a good preamp (external or integrated in card) and good A/D converters to get a decent sound. Now by sections: - Oktava Mic - As I said, I just bought it so it stays!!. Would love to hear your opinion though... - Alto Preamp - alto - Alto, Music Passion Design - MINI TUBE . Is it good enough, does it make a huge difference?. I´ve only herad it with my Ozone, I don´t know if it would sound better with proper A/D convertors. - Ozone - I´m assuming it´s "for beginners" and I could get a much better (cristaline and precise) sound. - I also have a 16 channel Mackie mixer (with preamps, etc) which I´m not using at the moment (pretty useless with the Ozone). So I want an interface with multiple outputs (8...) to route through the mackie. What to do with a limited budget? (Say around 600€). - I´ll only be using 1/2 inputs but want outputs for the mixer. I´ve read here about RME and Echo Audiofire which look promising, but I need more the outputs than the inputs (Audiofire has 12 in and 12 out). - Are the pre´s on Mackies better than the interface´s?. Which should I use?. Maybe use the pre´s on the Mackie and route it to the card?. I hope this post is not as messy as my knowledge on the matter. Thanks for reading and extra thanks for your advice!!.

27th October 2009, 02:56 PM	#2
Chris Lago Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Toronto/Hollywood Posts: 5,715	What type of speakers are you using? Without proper speakers, you wouldn't hear a difference between AD/DA to be honest with you. __________________ http://www.chrislago.com http://www.myspace.com/chrislago Recording/Mixing/Mastering

27th October 2009, 03:34 PM	#3
erosconpollo Gear maniac Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Graceville FL Posts: 213	Converters: the Ozone has okay conversion. Sure you can do better but I wouldn't worry too much on that account. Preamps: Ozone actually has a pretty decent built-in preamp with a good amount of gain. I don't know the Alto but the M-Audio is likely to be cleaner. And you should be able to use both if you run the Alto in through the line level/instrument input. Two different flavors. Of course you can do better but what you have is certainly usable. And you do have a good mike in the Oktava. I love my 319s...but if you're going to use both preamps simultaneously you're going to need another one, aren't you? __________________ If you always know where you're headed, you'll never go anyplace new. Peanut Road

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27th October 2009, 04:05 PM	#4
carayo Gear interested Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 16	Thanks for your answers!!. - I currently mix with headphones, I have lousy neighbors... they´re high-end AKG´s and I´m used to them. I work with them and then listen in different speakers, etc. Any advices about the Mackie board?. Is it a whim?. I want to use it for EQ, routing, mixing, plugin in guitar pedals as effects... More of a "hands on" feeling. That´s why i´d need more outputs on my interface. Are preamps on Mackies (as I said a pretty nice 16 channel one) better than Ozone´s?. Also (thanks erosconpollo...) if I was to plug the Alto preamp output into the mic input of the Ozone, instead of instrument input, would I be using 2 preamps?, or does it have to do with the phantom power?. Thanks for your advice. I´m hyped to see where I end up!!

27th October 2009, 05:23 PM	#6
carayo Gear interested Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 16	I don´t know the Mackie model. I´ll check it tonight after chating at work with you guys instead of working... It´s a mid-90´s model in good condition. I know I don´t have the best listening enviroment (headphones, etc) but I´m going after getting the best source material. I can always do the final mix in a studio... I mean, headphones will alter the way I hear a recorded acoustic guitar, but the recording´s quality itself is what I´m trying to change. I´ll be recording mostly acoustic guitar and vocals, which are think would benefit from an increase in quality, being very sensible material Thanks again.