Recording a singer with a 58, advice?

[Insomniaclown]

My singer is coming in to lay down some vocals for a project that I am involved in. I have recorded him in the past with varying levels of success. He is not a fan of singing into a mic on a stand with a pop screen, and he really likes to get in close to the mic. I get decent sound quality, but the performance suffers. Last time I just told him to hold the mic in his hand and go nuts. It was some Shure broadcast mic, you know the ones with that big metal grill and whatnot. Performance was great, but the vocal was filled with plosives and sibilance, and the level was all over the place. He is not a trained singer.

I have recorded myself with a 57 in hand, but not a 58, and I do have vocal training and decent mic technique. This guy ain't got no mic technique. Any pearls of wisdom? Or do I just press record and work with whatever I get. Thanks.

[Insomniaclown]

I forgot to mention that his vocal styling is very hip hop with a little hardcore. Something along the lines of HED PE. So he goes from quiet whispers to raging screams at the drop of a hat.

[Wayne]

Put him in a nice dry space. Give him an RE20, 16 or maybe an omni to hold and set your normal LDC on a stand as close in as practical. Hopefully the LDC is the one', with 'might get lucky with the hand held. Compress on the way in if you work that way?

[KeithMoonwannabe]

so basically you are too afraid to address the real problem here. Maybe you should figure out a way that teaches him how to be more professional in a recording setting so he and you can get the results you desire. In business lingo it's the process of discovery. You don't want to point out that he lacks talent or technique instead you want him to discover what he's doing wrong and discover that the methods you'd like him to implement are better.

Perhaps start by showing him what his poor performing and lack of mic technique sound like raw. Than show him an example of you using better dynamics in your singing and better mic technique sound like raw. You can probably also mention that entertaining on a stage and recording in a studio call for two different things. Moving around and putting on a show are not to be done in the studio in my opinion. Cut to the chase lay down your tracks and call it a day.

Tell him that the better the signal starts the better it will sound on your finished product. If that doesn't work than it's most likely his money and time on the line and not yours and if they don't want to sound their best or be professional musicians than just do all you can to make it work.

Or you can just play luck of the draw and be a chicken about it. Personally I don't like gambling.

I think you'd get better results using an RE-20 or an SM7b but if a 58 is all you have give it a whirl.

[fallforward]

When I record singers that have wide varying dynamic rang(in my case it is usually broadway singers lol) I will do one pass for the quiet stuff with a certain gain setting/mic distance. Then I will do a second pass with a different gain setting/mic distance for the louder stuff. I would rather do that then trying to do an reall heavy compression to even out the dynamics.

I've never recorded a screamer type though so take the above advice with a grain of salt...
Robby

[dysenterygary]

yeah, I'd tell mr. rockstar how its gonna go down. and put him w/a pop filter and a stand, and then give him a quick lesson on how studio vox are tracked. Maybe get him to give you some good takes that way, and then let him do it his way and layer it. Good luck!

[KeithMoonwannabe]

Originally Posted by fallforward

When I record singers that have wide varying dynamic rang(in my case it is usually broadway singers lol) I will do one pass for the quiet stuff with a certain gain setting/mic distance. Then I will do a second pass with a different gain setting/mic distance for the louder stuff. I would rather do that then trying to do an reall heavy compression to even out the dynamics.

I've never recorded a screamer type though so take the above advice with a grain of salt...
Robby

no that's a very valid point but the bottom line is sometimes that's hard to do with people that lack the talent or knowledge of mic technique. If the guy can't stand still in front of a mic with a pop filter any take will be jeopardized in quality from the get go.

Most broadway singers have decent technique, it's just like you said it sounds unnatural to position a mic in one spot or try to capture all the subtleties of their singing with one particular mic. So the best method is to do various takes for different parts.

[Insomniaclown]

Thanks for all the advice guys. I would absolutely love to sit the guy down and teach him how its going to go. Its his idea to do the 58 in hand thing by the way, and I am down to give it a try. I will really try to set a couple of ground rules though. Teach him that when he screams to just push the mic back a little bit. Which is counter intuitive for some people. Close for quiet, back for loud. See how he does. Maybe I'll shoot him an email with a couple of things to practice. I don't have a compressor to run him through, but maybe I can get my hands on one.

A couple of issues arise with this individual. He is my friend, so I don't want to be to harsh, and I know he is very sensitive. I will do me best to be as professional as possible. Maybe I'll try to grab a couple of takes 58 in hand, and then throw up an LDC, and grab a couple of takes that way. He is very inconsistent in his performances though. Also, he is a LEAD SINGER in all senses of the word. The talent, the center of the sun. Nice guy, but when it comes to being an "artist" his way is the only way. His style is unique, but he lacks basic foundation. He actually can't sing in the traditional sense.

Thanks again for all the help!

[KeithMoonwannabe]

yeah I can definitely empathize with you I know of a certain person like that (lead singer in one of the bands I play with now).

Nice guy and all that just totally inexperienced in recording so it can get aggravating.

[asplashofcitrus]

Definitely agree on letting him know what's proper regarding mic technique and working with it. Though the other side of me says if he gets some awesome takes flailing around and gets into the song, I say let him do his thing. Compression levels out some inconsistencies, right?

This is another thought but I also think of drummers coming to mind...I find it unorthodox or even rude to ask them "hey, can you move your cymbals up a little higher so I can sneak this microphone in on the snare drum?...etc" I've known drummers that were coerced in that situation and it actually became a problem from their normal setup when it came time to record. I also know drummers who won't move ANYTHING when it comes to micing the kit...so you have to be creative...

But drums are a different thing; I digress.

[Blast9]

Originally Posted by Insomniaclown

I forgot to mention that his vocal styling is very hip hop with a little hardcore. Something along the lines of HED PE. So he goes from quiet whispers to raging screams at the drop of a hat.

SM58 in studio - Phil Anselmo (Pantera) springs to mind, though perhaps his mic technique is good

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IF the Shure broadcast mic was the SM7b - I'm pretty sure that has a built-in pop filter so perhaps you'll get worse results with a 58 - def don't use a 57.

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Suggestion - get him to hold mic with both hands 6-8 inches away from his head and tell him to use that as part of the performance... Thats how I always do my own vox!

Use a decent high headroom mic pre/EQ and dial out the freqs where most of the pops are (without making him sound thin)

...and don't be afraid to compress on the way in a lot if necessary.

I've had great results doing this with a Behringer Composer... yes a b***r***er

[Guitarzan]

Give him the 58 in his hand and throw up the 57 a few feet away, maybe the combination will work well. I don't really know what I'm talking about, just a thought.

[jproc]

many of my favorite hardcore records were recorded 58 in hand with the singer just going apeshit....
if the type of music calls for it, you're going to get a better result than trying to force him to use "proper" mic technique...
don't let other people's biases of what is good music affect what works best for the song...

give him a handheld... ride the levels... let him go nuts...

[Phase-Ish]

Randy is the RE 20

I would try that first

[Aaron Miller]

I bet a lot of scratch vocals that ended up being keepers were done on SM-58s, not to mention a ton of live records. I think a great or even an average singer should be able to pull off a decent vocal recording with that mic and the right combination of EQ, fader riding, and compression. If it's still really tough to get an ok take, he needs a little guidance.

[drbam]

I assume he'll be using headphones for monitoring? If so, push his vocal in the mix loud enough so he'll back off a bit. If he complains, tell him you really can't get him any softer in the monitor mix without adversely affecting the recording level (will he really know?). Ask him to hold the mic back a bit and tell him when its "just right". If he still works the mic too close, push his vocal a tad bit more in the monitor mix and keep giving him positive words of encouragement when he's where he needs to be. More than half the work in getting a good performance involves a bit of "therapeutic" skill (manipulation).

[swafford]

I'd give him the mic and let him do his thing. Then take him in the control room and listen to the play back. Point out to him the issues with the vocal and how his mic position is creating the issue and suggest ways he may get around it - avoiding to much proximity, ducking his chin to avoid plosives, etc. Give him the opportunity to learn and improve. If he's still clueless, fvck it, it is what it is.

[flmason]

Well, I'm no pro, but if he can't modify his mic technique, do the take... ride the faders in post, etc.

This curve works for me to remove plosives (among other things). But the starting mic was an SM58 knock off. It doesn't have the 3khz bump of an SM58, nor the notch up in the presence area around 7.5khz.

But it's the bottom that I wanted to point out. Seems the plosives tend to actually be rather low frequency and can be tuned out as shown. Maybe a higher or lower cutoff depending on the material.

[mooshootoo]

Suggest you give the vocalist a week, some freeware recording program for his PC or mac, and a week to work this shit out for himself. The best form of control is self-control via a set challenge. Tell him he will only be a better singer if he learns to ride his own levels and he'll be saving a fortune in studio time (assuming he's paying) in learning technique for himself. All you're left to do is teach him to look for a signal going into the red and the job's done. Band pressure is an amazing thing. The other guys will expect your singer to get his shit together and enter the studio to lay it down in 2 or 3 takes tops! I've done this and it works.

[MrCrowbar]

I recommend holding the microphone downward so the plosives hit the capsule at an angle or don't hit it at all.

Kinda like this (bad pic, I know): http://www.dreamstime.com/female-sin...umb6034654.jpg

Then apply some low cut to get rid of the rest of the handling noise and plosives. On a decent preamp, the SM58 can actually sound great and really cut through.