Focusrite Saffire VS Motu 828 MKII

[WNR]

It sounds like some of you guys have tried the Saffire.

I'm looking for a soundcard that will hold for a few years, so I can upgrade my other stuff and still be pleased with my soundcard.

The Saffire looks real nice to me, but here in Sweden it's kind of expensive 643Euro
So I'm wondering if I should buy the Saffire or Motu 828 MKII (750Euro used)

I'm going to use the soundcard for recording and producing rap/hiphop music, and I'm thinking of using a midicontroller, so no big mixer.

What do you guys think?, the Saffire or the Motu? =)

//WNR

[AdamJay]

no one knows if the Saffire will hold a few years, its not a few years old. and Focusrite is pretty new to the driver development game.

the 828mkII will though.

if price is a large concern, you may also want to consider the Yamaha i88x Firewire.

[WNR]

Originally Posted by AdamJay

no one knows if the Saffire will hold a few years, its not a few years old. and Focusrite is pretty new to the driver development game.

the 828mkII will though.

if price is a large concern, you may also want to consider the Yamaha i88x Firewire.

The Yamaha i88x is at the same price as 828MKII

I've heard that Muto's Preamp isn't so good, but Saffires rock.. (Can any one comfirm?)

I want a card for homerecording, but I want quality sound,

Does anyone here have a sample sung with Saffires Preamp? =)

[simonv]

I have a little song that I completely recorded with my new Saffire.

I got my Saffire last week, and a collegue of mine couldnt possibly understand how someone could spend so much cash on a soundcard. I explained him that I needed goog quality to record music. He then challenged me to write him a song.

So I recorded the following song (in French), with lyrics about our ISIT tech job.

http://www.simvez.com/christian/christian.mp3

Here are the track lists:

1) Rhyhtm guitar (The guitar is a Seagull acoustic, mic is a AKG C2000B)
2) Vocals (SM7b)
3) "lead" guitar overdub (AKG C2000B)
4) bass overdub (This is possibly the worst bass on Earth, but it came out OK using the Saffire's onboard Compressor and EQ)

All done in 3 hours.. I hope it gives you an idea

[WNR]

Originally Posted by simvez

I have a little song that I completely recorded with my new Saffire.

I got my Saffire last week, and a collegue of mine couldnt possibly understand how someone could spend so much cash on a soundcard. I explained him that I needed goog quality to record music. He then challenged me to write him a song.

So I recorded the following song (in French), with lyrics about our ISIT tech job.

http://www.simvez.com/christian/christian.mp3

Here are the track lists:

1) Rhyhtm guitar (The guitar is a Seagull acoustic, mic is a AKG C2000B)
2) Vocals (SM7b)
3) "lead" guitar overdub (AKG C2000B)
4) bass overdub (This is possibly the worst bass on Earth, but it came out OK using the Saffire's onboard Compressor and EQ)

All done in 3 hours.. I hope it gives you an idea

Hi Thanx for the song, it sounds fantastic, but I hear a bit of noise in the background?, is it the guitarr or the soundcard?

//WNR

[Alexi]

FIREPOD thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup

[Alexi]

lovely song btw........cheer up chin up

[simonv]

WNR, if you're talking about the hum, it comes from the bass. The sound card itself is very quiet.

[s00p3rm4n]

Actually, the Yamaha i88x is only $400. MOTU's 828mkII is quite a bit more expensive than that new and usually much more than that price on Ebay.

Further, the i88x (from what I've heard) has far better preamps than the MOTU.

[junior]

haven't tried the saffire, but the i88x is worthy of the buzz

[jba]

Not all MOTU preamps suck. The pres on the Traveler are actually very good.

The i88x seems like a good deal but beware of audiocards that are being blown out--they might not have much support or upgrades available in the future.

-Jim Bob

[s00p3rm4n]

Originally Posted by jba

Not all MOTU preamps suck. The pres on the Traveler are actually very good.

The i88x seems like a good deal but beware of audiocards that are being blown out--they might not have much support or upgrades available in the future.

-Jim Bob

They won't discontinue warranties or support for it... and why do I care about upgrades? I don't buy things expecting that they'll be upgradeable. At this point, I just care that it works and it sounds good. As opposed to my broken and un-good-sounding 828. What a pile of sunshine and farts that's turned out to be.

When MOTU puts pres from a console (like Yamaha did with DMP2000 - i88x) into the next iteration of the 828 or its ilk, I'll consider looking back at the brand. Or, you know, when they stop offering a machine worth $600 for $1200 or more. MOTU's markup is ridickulous, like RME's markup of the Fireface. These bitches make BANK.

[junior]

Originally Posted by s00p3rm4n

They won't discontinue warranties or support for it... and why do I care about upgrades? I don't buy things expecting that they'll be upgradeable. At this point, I just care that it works and it sounds good. As opposed to my broken and un-good-sounding 828. What a pile of sunshine and farts that's turned out to be.

When MOTU puts pres from a console (like Yamaha did with DMP2000 - i88x) into the next iteration of the 828 or its ilk, I'll consider looking back at the brand. Or, you know, when they stop offering a machine worth $600 for $1200 or more. MOTU's markup is ridickulous, like RME's markup of the Fireface. These bitches make BANK.

exactly. and fwiw, yamaha/apple are committed to mlan for the foreseeable future...

as if you couldn't tell, i'm impressed with the i88x. it sounds/functions great and has some features i wish the fireface had (like inserts, higher gain pres and an actual volume control knob!).

yamaha was pretty shrewd to lower prices - at $399, it's a no-brainer. and, now that mlan is stable, they stand to gain a larger market share for their mlan products.

[Joe Cole]

A big difference would be that the Saffire has a software mixer, the i88x dies not (according to the sales folks at Steve's).


Routing in the Saffire is pretty sweet.


simvez... buy yours at steve's?

..en passant, ta tune est cool.

[junior]

Originally Posted by Joe Cole

A big difference would be that the Saffire has a software mixer, the i88x dies not (according to the sales folks at Steve's).

is that really a big selling point for you? for daw work, don't most folks just use the mixer in their host app anyway? personally, that's what i've always done...

fwiw, two things that turned me off about the saffire are 1) you can't use the dsp plugs from within your sequencer (they have to be routed in from the mixer software) and 2) i didn't think the plugs were all that great. decent, but nothing better than a lot of the third party plugs most of us run...

for the same money, the i88x offers SO much more.

[junior]

Originally Posted by Youn

I understand mLan is based on IEEE1394 so does that mean I can just hook it up into my laptops firewire port? How does linking two or more i88x together work (or any other mLan device for that matter)... do they "daisy chain" or something? Are the converters on the yamaha better/worse then the Motu/Focusrite/RME, etc... it looks like the pres are a sure thing at least.... I just can't believe the price!

yeah, mlan uses standard firewire ports. the cool thing is that you can network a computer and/or other mlan devices (01x, motif, apogee, ksp8, etc) with standard firewire cables. all the routing can then be done via the mlan graphic patchbay (with no other physical cables) and recalled as a preset.

the pres/converters are very good, the latency is low (down to 1-2ms) and it has plenty of i/o (balanced analog, spdif, adat, midi, inserts).

[s00p3rm4n]

Originally Posted by junior

yeah, mlan uses standard firewire ports. the cool thing is that you can network a computer and/or other mlan devices (01x, motif, apogee, ksp8, etc) with standard firewire cables. all the routing can then be done via the mlan graphic patchbay (with no other physical cables) and recalled as a preset.

the pres/converters are very good, the latency is low (down to 1-2ms) and it has plenty of i/o (balanced analog, spdif, adat, midi, inserts).

In this scenario, where does latency come into play? Does that mean after hitting "record," there's a delay of 1-2ms? Or that there's a continuous lag between channels - for instance, if I lay down a drum track, then go back and lay down a guitar track exactly timed with the drums, it'll be out of time?

This confuzzles me.

[junior]

Originally Posted by s00p3rm4n

In this scenario, where does latency come into play? Does that mean after hitting "record," there's a delay of 1-2ms? Or that there's a continuous lag between channels - for instance, if I lay down a drum track, then go back and lay down a guitar track exactly timed with the drums, it'll be out of time?

This confuzzles me.

the input latency would be the time it takes for your audio to travel from the a/d converters to your recording software. it shouldn't affect the timing between your individual tracks...

[s00p3rm4n]

Originally Posted by junior

the input latency would be the time it takes for your audio to travel from the a/d converters to your recording software. it shouldn't affect the timing between your individual tracks...

Ahh okay.

(Completely unrelated question follows If I run my RNC into the insert on the i88x, but have an external pre going into the i88x itself, will it work? Presumably it should since it's passing signal...

[I play in a ban]

You know..I have a Mackie Onyx 400F (same pres/converters as the 800r) on reserve, but the i88x is so much cheaper. Any idea on how the pres/converters on these 2 units compare?

BTW, how much was the i88x before the price drop??

Thanks

[autodidactic]

MSRP was $1295.00 and online retailers had them for just under a thousand.

[I play in a ban]

Originally Posted by autodidactic

MSRP was $1295.00 and online retailers had them for just under a thousand.

Thanks

When did the price drop happen?

The pres and converters are really nice?

oh yeah..what is mLan?

Sorry for all the questions..

I might buy one tommorow

[junior]

the price drop must have happened in the last few months. they also reduced the price of the 01x digital mixer / control surface (i think it's under a grand now)...

anyway, mlan is a firewire audio/midi networking protocol. it's built into the current mac os at the system level and is supported on windows via an asio driver.

some reviews of the i88x:

http://www.eqmag.com/story.asp?secti...storycode=4652
http://www.musictechmag.co.uk/mtm/download/i88x
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jan0...yamahai88x.htm

hope it helps...

[respirator]

Don't really know the Motu, but I've test-driven the Saffire.

I agree that the Saffire plugs mostly suck. You can use them in your host, but as standard plugs (no dsp power from the Saffire). The reverb, comp and eq is on par with the native plugs in Cubase. The amp sim is the worst I've heard, includring freeware.

The preamps are good. Way better than the Platinum ones. More headroom. Easily drives a passive pickup guitar (something the Platinum can't do).

The converters are fine. Didn't notice them, which is good.

A very, very, VERY nice feature for the project studio is the ability to add reverb to the monitor out. No latency.

The headphone amp is really weak, so you probably need a good headphone amp to do tracking.

[junior]

Originally Posted by respirator

The headphone amp is really weak, so you probably need a good headphone amp to do tracking.

right - a headphone amp is a great idea no matter which interface you choose. thumbsup

[drummin4christ]

Forget both of those and go with a Firebox from Presonus. Best package and value all around. Solid drivers and the DSP mixer is very cool.

[junior]

Originally Posted by drummin4christ

Forget both of those and go with a Firebox from Presonus. Best package and value all around. Solid drivers and the DSP mixer is very cool.

have you had a chance to compare them? it seems to me the i88x offers a heck of a lot more than the presonus:

firebox ($299) - 4 in / 6 out, 2 preamps, spdif & midi i/o (on breakout cable), direct monitoring (via software), bus power, bundled cubase le and mixer software...

i88x ($399) - 8 in / 8 out, 2 (very good) preamps, inserts, adat i/o, spdif i/o, midi i/o, direct monitoring (via hardware), mlan compatible, bundled vst/au plugins...

[WNR]

Originally Posted by junior

have you had a chance to compare them? it seems to me the i88x offers a heck of a lot more than the presonus:

firebox ($299) - 4 in / 6 out, 2 preamps, spdif & midi i/o (on breakout cable), direct monitoring (via software), bus power, bundled cubase le and mixer software...

i88x ($399) - 8 in / 8 out, 2 (very good) preamps, inserts, adat i/o, spdif i/o, midi i/o, direct monitoring (via hardware), mlan compatible, bundled vst/au plugins...

how can it be, the i88x is much mor expensiv here ($914 Used)
and the Saffire is at ($652 New)

[drummin4christ]

Originally Posted by junior

have you had a chance to compare them? it seems to me the i88x offers a heck of a lot more than the presonus:

firebox ($299) - 4 in / 6 out, 2 preamps, spdif & midi i/o (on breakout cable), direct monitoring (via software), bus power, bundled cubase le and mixer software...

i88x ($399) - 8 in / 8 out, 2 (very good) preamps, inserts, adat i/o, spdif i/o, midi i/o, direct monitoring (via hardware), mlan compatible, bundled vst/au plugins...

I just don't trust the mLan drivers from Yamaha. I guess I have a bad taste for it because of the Firestation. Great unit and many people still use it with RME stuff via ADAT. The biggest problem with the unit was the firewire driver which Presonus outsourced to Yamaha.
I know I'm supposed to like Yamaha since I use Cubase SX, but I just don't trust the mlan stuff.
But, that is the great thing about forums, each is entitled to his own opinion, and I am utterly happy with my Firepod, and Firebox.

I will say though, the biggest drawback to both units is no ADAT I/O's, but I love how portable and well made the Firebox is.

[junior]

Originally Posted by drummin4christ

I just don't trust the mLan drivers from Yamaha. I guess I have a bad taste for it because of the Firestation. Great unit and many people still use it with RME stuff via ADAT. The biggest problem with the unit was the firewire driver which Presonus outsourced to Yamaha.

i was also suspicious about mlan (and i can understand your frustration about the firestation). the firestation was an older mlan1 (s200) product and was hobbled by the first versions of the mlan drivers/firmware (in addition to problems with certain 1394 chipsets). however, the current drivers are solid - no problems here. in fact, firestations have become so cheap that i'm thinking of adding one to my rack

just for perspective, all interfaces (and protocols) that i know of have experienced initial teething problems that are eventually ironed out. the downside of being an early-adopter is that you also become an unpaid beta tester (which sucks, but happens).

i should point out that even my fireface was unusable/buggy for the first few months after i bought it. but, since the drivers have been fixed, it's earned a very good reputation.

everyone's entitled to their opinion, but dismissing mlan because of it's initial bugs (which have been fixed) doesn't make much sense to me. mlan works and the hardware's great, imo.