Adam A7 and Apogee Duet...

[VNVNation]

Hi All,

I have an Apogee Duet which I'm hoping to run with powered monitors. At this point I'm reasonably sure I'll be getting Adam A7's.

Does anyone have experience with this combo? Good, bad? Any setup or use quirks I should know about?

Thanks in advance...

VNV

[Jonesfromindia]

what are your concerns?

those are good speakers.
thats a good interface.
use mogami cables.

what is a "quirk" in this situation?

adam speakers have been known to intermitantly shut down only when using duets...thats all i know...

[VNVNation]

"adam speakers have been known to intermitantly shut down only when using duets...thats all i know..."

Hehe... nice one...

What I mean is with the output from the Duet driving the A7's directly the Duet is effectively the pre-amp driving the power amp in the A7's, right? I just wondered if this presents any problems as I guess normally the duet would go to a pre-amp... (I think...)

Cheers
V

[staudio]

There will be no problem with using the Duet into A7's, just get a pair of 1/4 inch TS (tip sleeve) to RCA cables and connect to the A7's RCA input. The Duet has an unbalanced output so you will want to use the A7's unbalanced input (RCA) instead of the balanced XLR input.

Also keep the cables short to avoid potential noise pickup, unbalanced cables like to be less than 10 feet in my experience.

[VNVNation]

Excellent! Thanks for the info'...

V

[NHAttak]

I own a pair of A7's that I use with an Ensemble. They're one of the best upgrades I've done in my studio. You definitely won't regret buying a pair.

[joeydego]

I run my rosetta 200 into my duets, and I love them both. HOWEVER, you may need THIS: TC Electronic Level Pilot | Sweetwater.com
for whatever reason the Adams did not like line level from the rosetta, this cured it.

[staudio]

Originally Posted by joeydego

I run my rosetta 200 into my duets, and I love them both. HOWEVER, you may need THIS: TC Electronic Level Pilot | Sweetwater.com
for whatever reason the Adams did not like line level from the rosetta, this cured it.

The Rosetta has a fixed level output at line level, which is usually way to hot to feed active speakers without blowing them or your ears up. The Duet has a variable output level which is controlled by the knob so there is no need for another volume control.

[joeydego]

Originally Posted by staudio

The Rosetta has a fixed level output at line level, which is usually way to hot to feed active speakers without blowing them or your ears up. The Duet has a variable output level which is controlled by the knob so there is no need for another volume control.

THIS I did not know, thank you!

[Tomer1]

Love my A7s,
Best buy I made in years.

[the_man361]

my a7's sound tonnes better when using TRS to XLR cables rather than TRS to phono into the back of the a7, though my trs to phono cables might be bad, there was a very noticable difference.

[pdiddy boy]

That combo will sound awesome ! I have A7's now and loved using the Apogee Duet so much I upgraded to the Ensemble !

[Draw the Moral]

Originally Posted by staudio

There will be no problem with using the Duet into A7's, just get a pair of 1/4 inch TS (tip sleeve) to RCA cables and connect to the A7's RCA input. The Duet has an unbalanced output so you will want to use the A7's unbalanced input (RCA) instead of the balanced XLR input.

Also keep the cables short to avoid potential noise pickup, unbalanced cables like to be less than 10 feet in my experience.

Just curious. Why would you run RCA instead of XLR?

RCA is consumer connection, and as far as I know it's inferior to XLR.

I'm running TRS>XLR from my duet to my genelecs and it sounds fantastic. Most higher end monitors don't even have RCA.

Am I missing something, or is that your personal preference?

[VNVNation]

Okay, I'm a little confused. The output from the Duet is unbalanced (TRS) right? So in effect the cable you guys are talking about is essentially the same as an unbalanced TRS to XLR... Why would this make a difference? From your posts it sounds like I need to get a TRS->XLR cable pronto!...

Thanks for the input!

BTW: Just got my A7's! Yay! Will be hooking up today...

[Draw the Moral]

Originally Posted by VNVNation

Okay, I'm a little confused. The output from the Duet is unbalanced (TRS) right? So in effect the cable you guys are talking about is essentially the same as an unbalanced TRS to XLR... Why would this make a difference? From your posts it sounds like I need to get a TRS->XLR cable pronto!...

Thanks for the input!

BTW: Just got my A7's! Yay! Will be hooking up today...

Well, XLR is a balanced connection, but it can still transmit an unbalanced signal. It consists of a positive, negative, and a ground. If it's an unbalanced signal, I believe it just doesn't use the ground...but it doesn't harm the signal at all.

I could be wrong, I'm not up on my electronics theory.

Practically speaking, I'm using TRS>XLR between my Duet and Genelecs and it works fine.

[Speeddemon]

Originally Posted by VNVNation

Okay, I'm a little confused. The output from the Duet is unbalanced (TRS) right? So in effect the cable you guys are talking about is essentially the same as an unbalanced TRS to XLR... Why would this make a difference? From your posts it sounds like I need to get a TRS->XLR cable pronto!...

Thanks for the input!

BTW: Just got my A7's! Yay! Will be hooking up today...

No, TRS is balanced! Tip (+), Ring (-) and Sleeve (ground.
TS (Tip/Sleeve) is unbalanced.

[Ben F]

If you are running unbalanced line level out, then there would be no advantage using the balanced ins on the A7s. A system is either balanced or unbalanced- there is no in between.

Generally for TS (unbalanced) to balanced XLR cable short pins 1 (cold) and 3 (earth) on the XLR end to reduce interference, and have the runs less than 5 meters.

Loving the A7s at home as well

Are the Duet drivers good? I'd like to get a better audio interface.

[VNVNation]

Thanks for the input everyone, the A7's are now hooked up and running in! I've got them wired via TRS->RCA currently but will certainly look into the TRS->XLR cable as you guy's recommended.

@Ben F
The Duet is an amazing sounding audio interface, especially at the price. The drivers are Mac only (Core Audio) but solid as a rock and integrated beautifully into the OS/DAW.

Initial impressions of the A7's are really positive, really detailed and transparent, I'm hearing all sorts of new stuff in music I've listened to a LOT! Obviously they need time to run in properly... And they seem to be well suited to the Duet's clean, pristine output. I think my room may need quite a bit of treatment to get the best out of the A7's though...

Cheers!

[Ben F]

^^^ They are actually more forgiving than many speakers (especially dynaudio/Mackie), but if you trap the front corners it will help a lot. I have the tweeter at -1dB and EQ 6kHz -0.5dB (1 click) which matched the top end of the studio ATC SCM 50s quite well.

May have to upgrade my M-audio at home, the drivers are crap.

[staudio]

There is no benefit to using an XLR connection for unbalanced lines except locking and more rugged connectors. RCA is perfectly fine for the application under discussion, nothing inferior about it at all really if you use good quality jacks and plugs. In the specific case of running the Duet to the A7's the simplest method is to use TS to RCA cables which eliminates any chance of wiring the unbalanced to balanced cables incorrectly.

[ZCA]

Hi all,
I was wondering if there is any difference soundwise from connecting Duet to mixer and the mixer to speakers instead of connecting Apogee Duet straight to speakers?

[staudio]

Originally Posted by ZCA

Hi all,
I was wondering if there is any difference soundwise from connecting Duet to mixer and the mixer to speakers instead of connecting Apogee Duet straight to speakers?

If you connect the Duet to a mixer and then connect the mixer to the speakers, there will be some added noise and distortion from the mixer circuitry, but it may not be a problem.

I know for a fact that some converter outputs like to be run into a buffer stage before going directly to the power amp of the speakers, the buffer stage can load the converter differently and may sound different in a good way, but this is not a universal experience.

Generally the less stuff in your signal path the better.

[the_man361]

Originally Posted by staudio

There is no benefit to using an XLR connection for unbalanced lines except locking and more rugged connectors. RCA is perfectly fine for the application under discussion, nothing inferior about it at all really if you use good quality jacks and plugs. In the specific case of running the Duet to the A7's the simplest method is to use TS to RCA cables which eliminates any chance of wiring the unbalanced to balanced cables incorrectly.

but if you have balanced outputs on your interface (TRS) then running TRS to XLR is a big improvement on running TS to RCA, ive tried both and the unbalanced one sounds much worse.

[Ben F]

Originally Posted by the_man361

but if you have balanced outputs on your interface (TRS) then running TRS to XLR is a big improvement on running TS to RCA, ive tried both and the unbalanced one sounds much worse.

Well then it should just be a matter or running TS (unbalanced) to XLR. I haven't tried but there should be no difference in sound- in fact unbalanced has less electronics and should be more transparent than a differential amplifier. Will try today....

[VNVNation]

The Duet seems to be having no trouble driving the A7s directly without any mixer acting as a buffer stage. I agree with staudio that any extra stages in the signal path can only add distortion/noise.

I've been running the A7s at the -27db detent and the Duet at roughly 50-60% output which is plenty loud enough in the nearfield, I was wondering if it's better to run the Duet at 100% output and alter the gain from the A7s but then this would probably make getting exact channel balance difficult as only -27db had a 'detent'...

One weird thing with the A7s is that bad mixes or low bitrate mp3s sound awful, the A7s are quite intolerant in this regard... but fed a great signal they absolutely shine! I guess this is sort of the point, it's just so much more obvious than previous monitor experiences (Dynaudio BM5a, M-Audio BX8, B&W805). They are actually more revealing than my trusty Sennheiser HD580 'phones...

So far so good...

[staudio]

Originally Posted by the_man361

but if you have balanced outputs on your interface (TRS) then running TRS to XLR is a big improvement on running TS to RCA, ive tried both and the unbalanced one sounds much worse.

If your gear uses balanced connections then use balanced cables.

If your gear uses unbalanced connections then use unbalanced cables.

The Duet has an unbalanced output, which is why I recommend using unbalanced cables to connect it to the A7's unbalanced RCA inputs. If the Duet had a balanced output then I would recommend using balanced cables to connect it to the A7's balanced XLR inputs.

[the_man361]

Originally Posted by Ben F

Well then it should just be a matter or running TS (unbalanced) to XLR. I haven't tried but there should be no difference in sound- in fact unbalanced has less electronics and should be more transparent than a differential amplifier. Will try today....

with my gear there is a massive difference in sound between the balanced (TRS to XLR) and unbalances (TS to RCA)..unbalanced sounds flat and dead (lacking in high frequency end)

Originally Posted by VNVNation

The Duet seems to be having no trouble driving the A7s directly without any mixer acting as a buffer stage. I agree with staudio that any extra stages in the signal path can only add distortion/noise.

I've been running the A7s at the -27db detent and the Duet at roughly 50-60% output which is plenty loud enough in the nearfield, I was wondering if it's better to run the Duet at 100% output and alter the gain from the A7s but then this would probably make getting exact channel balance difficult as only -27db had a 'detent'...

One weird thing with the A7s is that bad mixes or low bitrate mp3s sound awful, the A7s are quite intolerant in this regard... but fed a great signal they absolutely shine! I guess this is sort of the point, it's just so much more obvious than previous monitor experiences (Dynaudio BM5a, M-Audio BX8, B&W805). They are actually more revealing than my trusty Sennheiser HD580 'phones...

So far so good...

yeah, i like running the a7's at the -27 notch too, for this reason.. but i noticed i like them a little louder than normal when theyre at this position.. at -27dB, to get a volume i'd like to mix/monitor at, my mixer supplying the a7's would occasionally go into the red, so i set the a7's at the -18 notch and use my master faders to alter volume.

and yes, the mp3 thing.. thats the point!!! they sound bad because they are bad! i have some sennheiser hd595 headphones which i love, and yeh, those make bad mp3's sound listenable (though not as good as good quality files) the adams show you what is going on.

Originally Posted by staudio

If your gear uses balanced connections then use balanced cables.

If your gear uses unbalanced connections then use unbalanced cables.

The Duet has an unbalanced output, which is why I recommend using unbalanced cables to connect it to the A7's unbalanced RCA inputs. If the Duet had a balanced output then I would recommend using balanced cables to connect it to the A7's balanced XLR inputs.

100% fact. im running a motu 828mkii right now, which supports balanced/unbalanced output.. sure made a big difference.

[Jonesfromindia]

xlr's(balanced) are shielded. most rca's arent.

who knows if it will even make a difference.

[Joko]

I use this exact combo Duet - Adam A7. Both are great pieces of gear. The A7's really do force you to mix well regardless of the audio interface you use. With my previous KRK RP8's I found I was satisfied with my mixes much quicker, which I quickly noticed didn't translate that well on other speakers. The Adams force me to spend longer on details. As for the Duet combo it is great provided you don't need to record more than 4 sources simultaneously.