24 channel console at local music store.

[Esrb99]

Hey guys!

I've been looking around the net and researching mixers/consoles in general. Today I stopped by the local music store, and they happen to have a Phonic MR4283D. It has 24 channels with mic pres, 8 busses, eq, dedicated direct in, out, and 2 track tape i/o, built in talkback, and a meterbridge amongst other things I can't recall off the top of my head. Used price is $749.88, and I plan to go back monday to start a layaway on it (20% down required.)
I currently have an 8 track Presonus Firestudio project rig with an MBP, and a 2 track Tascam 22-2.

Wondering if anyone's used one of these boards- I know their firewire mixers are kinda shoddy, and I plan to test the pres before deciding, but I just wanted your guy's views,

Thanks!

[jproc]

I've never used or seen this console, so I can't comment on it directly...
however,
in that price range ~$700, I'd take a serious look at the Behringer MX9000 mixer... it has everything this one does and more...

people can bash Behringer all they want, and most of the time it's warranted... but the MX9000 is a seriously powerful mixer for the price... and its pretty well built for the price...

24 main channels(fader), 24 B channels(rotary), 8 subgroups, stereo master bus, full meterbridge, etc....

Each of the 24 main channels has mic pre/line/insert/ eq, 6 aux sends,mute,solo,pan,etc.

B channels are line input only, and have their own volume,pan,eq and a "flip" switch that makes them the main channel input

Nice master section with control room, studio, master outs - 2 headphone amps, aux returns, etc...

I've had mine for several years, and love it... (mic pre's aren't the greatest, but they get the job done...i use outboard pres for everything anyway...)

[Corran]

Sight unseen and I'd bet it's better than a Behringer, come on now!

[rty5150]

Originally Posted by Corran

Sight unseen and I'd bet it's better than a Behringer, come on now!

i used to own several behringers and still own a phonic helix. the phonic's pres wipe the floor with behringers. not that it can hang with my nice pres, but it is still better than behringer.

[tarnationsauce]

In that price range I would be looking for a used Mackie 8 bus.

[Corran]

Just to clarify, I was saying the Phonic is probably better than the Behringer.

[Esrb99]

I've looked at a mackie 8 bus online, but the real draw for this thing is I can put it on layaway and guarantee having it, can test the pres beforehand, and everything else. My first miser I had (Peavey 2002 rq) was a bad experience- only mic inputs, no d/o's noisy, weak pres- the thing was worthless. I'm in no way settled on this thing, but my biggest plus is that I'm gonna test it out first before going ahead with the layway.

mx9000? hmm, will look at that online... but as far as that goes, if over 400, I don't think i'll have the discipline to save! (lol) probably would buy new drumheads whilst trying to save for it or something.

[frankie c]

......Let me just say, that u can find a Used Tascam m3500mkII or a Mackie 24x4 (or 8) that will DESTROY that Phonic or any Berringer...

I owned the Tascam and a Mackie 24, and have used Berringer boards...\\

u can get a Tascam or mackie board USED CHEAPER than the Phonic...

just my 2 cents...(or if u are in the UK , pence)

[rty5150]

Originally Posted by frankie c

......Let me just say, that u can find a Used Tascam m3500mkII or a Mackie 24x4 (or 8) that will DESTROY that Phonic or any Berringer...

I owned the Tascam and a Mackie 24, and have used Berringer boards...\\

u can get a Tascam or mackie board USED CHEAPER than the Phonic...

just my 2 cents...(or if u are in the UK , pence)

so will most ramsa's.

[tnjazz]

Originally Posted by rty5150

so will most ramsa's.

+1

Skip the Phonic and look for a Ramsa 4424. You can probably find one for $400-500 if you look around.

[rty5150]

Originally Posted by tnjazz

+1
look for a Ramsa 4424.

yup, i have a pair of them...and 1 4416, too!

[jproc]

I always think its funny how much people love to bash Behringer...
Its understandable... a large large portion of their products are crap...
But everyone likes to have the knee-jerk reaction when the B-word is brought up....

I have EXTENSIVELY compared the Mackie 24x8 & the Behringer MX9000 - I had both sitting side by side in my studio for over a year....
I bought the Mackie as an upgrade to the Behringer...

I sold the Mackie...

...didn't sound any better, and had less i/o flexibility...

I dont use the pre's on the Behringer, but they didnt sound ANY worse than the Mackie's....

[Osc1lfo]

I've no experience with these, but I thought I would post about them on the Internet anyway.

I've never heard of this company. I looked on their Web site and made a couple of observations. One, the console you are interested in is not listed. So, it may be discontinued. I'd contact the mfr and verify that parts and service will be available from them and for how long. If it is used, why did the last guy return it/trade it in?

I cannot find any independent reviews of this console by Googling. If I were checking this console out, I'd stop right there and look for something else.

Second, all the compact mixers they show on the site look like outright Mackie clones, at least with regards to controls and jack placement. Does this make the bigger console attractive? Not to me. Not that imitation is new, but I find it irritating. I own a Mackie 1202, an older non-VLZ one, and I like the sound quality/build quality.

A quick Google shows a PDF brochure for the mixer at Phonic Document Center Maybe you can find a manual somewhere in the 'Phonic Document Center'.

Be sure to save yourself some bucks when you get any console, and make your own cables. You can order reels of cable and connectors from Markertek, and have a cable making party.

If you'd tell us how you like to work, what you will be doing with the mixer, some of us might be able to give some additional advice. Good luck!

[Esrb99]

I've never heard of this company. I looked on their Web site and made a couple of observations. One, the console you are interested in is not listed. So, it may be discontinued. I'd contact the mfr and verify that parts and service will be available from them and for how long. If it is used, why did the last guy return it/trade it in?

I cannot find any independent reviews of this console by Googling. If I were checking this console out, I'd stop right there and look for something else.

Second, all the compact mixers they show on the site look like outright Mackie clones, at least with regards to controls and jack placement. Does this make the bigger console attractive? Not to me. Not that imitation is new, but I find it irritating. I own a Mackie 1202, an older non-VLZ one, and I like the sound quality/build quality.

A quick Google shows a PDF brochure for the mixer at Phonic Document Center Maybe you can find a manual somewhere in the 'Phonic Document Center'.

I have a .pdf manual from Phonic's website- the one at the local store was originally installed at a local church BY the owner of the store. the church was just overwhelmed by the thing. I tested all the mic an line inputs- no hum, clean seeming gain, etc.

I also found old sound on sound reviews- one from 94 or so praising the pres in general, and one newer on some surround mixer of theirs. the store owner already contacted phonic and ordered a servicing manual for me as well. I'm about 60/40 on this one, as when I used my ears, it seemed just fine! maybe not as flashy as a duality or 1608, but the facts that I've got the ability to check it out, take it home locally, and have it as a 'layaway' item are very important to me. the only bad i've really gotten is the fact that phonic is associated with low-end behringer type stuff, and what ppl have said about their other, newer stuff.

im planning to track to a tascam 38, and dump at 24/96 into logic 9 for comping takes, edits, etc. then I plan to go out to my board for mixing, with little-no volume automation in the daw- I want to do it by hand, if possible (got a mcu just in case) either back to logic or (soon, hopefully,) an otari 5050.

[RCM - Ronan]

You can find a used Soundtracs Solo in that range, and they are very cool boards.

[Lemanchot]

Originally Posted by jproc

I always think its funny how much people love to bash Behringer...
Its understandable... a large large portion of their products are crap...
But everyone likes to have the knee-jerk reaction when the B-word is brought up....

I have EXTENSIVELY compared the Mackie 24x8 & the Behringer MX9000 - I had both sitting side by side in my studio for over a year....
I bought the Mackie as an upgrade to the Behringer...

I sold the Mackie...

...didn't sound any better, and had less i/o flexibility...

I dont use the pre's on the Behringer, but they didnt sound ANY worse than the Mackie's....

First of all, you shoulda open your 24/8 and compare it with the MX9000 and you'll do a nice observation. This is same thing... surprizing right ? I don't think people bash over Berhinger only for products quality. Why then?! Berhinger takes products from any company and they copy it. And since Germany has different laws has anybody in business and all.. it's very hard to pursue them.

The business still rolling while mackie and co. waits for results from court. And by the time the issue is fixed out... berhinger did their cash and Mackie loose ton of money.

That's the sad part... imagine you work over a song for forever and someone copy it of you... to make a cheezy version of it and he gains lots of more money than you and by the time everything is getting done well... you gain a few peanuts in the end.

I don't think people free bash over Berhinger only for their products quality as I said.. but for their politics and manners. This is truely not fair and there's must something to get done. And this is why their gear sells very cheap.

Plus, when you buy 2 same models from Berhinger you aren't sure they're going to work the same. Which is pretty much laughable.

So yeah give your money to them and screw the true workers... Because we want cheap stuff who does great miracles !

[Bassmankr]

There are plenty of used Mackie 8 buss desks that wipe the Behringer/Phonics for around a grand. I've got a non-giged 32-8 with meter bridge/power supply/shipping boxes that I'd sell for $1200 (I'm in Chicago), but as far as grabbing a 24-8 with no meter bridge you will get alot more mixer for your $800.

[Darth Preamp]

Originally Posted by Esrb99

I have a .pdf manual from Phonic's website- the one at the local store was originally installed at a local church BY the owner of the store. the church was just overwhelmed by the thing. I tested all the mic an line inputs- no hum, clean seeming gain, etc.

I also found old sound on sound reviews- one from 94 or so praising the pres in general, and one newer on some surround mixer of theirs. the store owner already contacted phonic and ordered a servicing manual for me as well. I'm about 60/40 on this one, as when I used my ears, it seemed just fine! maybe not as flashy as a duality or 1608, but the facts that I've got the ability to check it out, take it home locally, and have it as a 'layaway' item are very important to me. the only bad i've really gotten is the fact that phonic is associated with low-end behringer type stuff, and what ppl have said about their other, newer stuff.

im planning to track to a tascam 38, and dump at 24/96 into logic 9 for comping takes, edits, etc. then I plan to go out to my board for mixing, with little-no volume automation in the daw- I want to do it by hand, if possible (got a mcu just in case) either back to logic or (soon, hopefully,) an otari 5050.

Sounds like you found a good board that you dig!! Go for it, and make some nice music!!! Screw the audio snobs who judge by brand and not ears, if your ears tell you that its good, then trust yourself.
The truth is, that's the real key to making good records anyway, using your ears and trusting your insides/insight.


DP

[Bassmankr]

Praising or bashing based on brand name is snobery as some low end brand stuff is wonderful and some high end brand stuff is way overpriced for what it delivers. It's easy to do a member name search and read their other posts to determine if they have been in the trenches using this stuff or are just making snob statements. If you have decent ears you will get the most out of any gear, but the point of sites like this is to share your own experiences to help others, which after you have searched member posts you will probably see alot of the guys here just want to help/share what they think is a good tool for the price point/application. It's still your responsibilty to search old posts here for reasonable choices, as at $700 - $800 there are some good used mixer options.

[echoclerk]

I recently picked up a Soundtracs Topaz 8 for a bit less than that (but it was without Meter Bridge - and still is).

its fun to have a proper inline mixer finally. and Sounds quite different to the Behringer I was using previously.

[noah330]

$700 seems like a lot for a Phonic. I paid $750.00 for a DA-7 with three ADAT cards about 5 years ago.

I paid $1000 for my Tascam DM-3200 on B-Stock. I would look around a bit - especially if you don't have all the money yet.

Keep saving and keep your eyes open.

[jproc]

Originally Posted by Lemanchot

First of all, you shoulda open your 24/8 and compare it with the MX9000 and you'll do a nice observation. This is same thing... surprizing right ? I don't think people bash over Berhinger only for products quality. Why then?! Berhinger takes products from any company and they copy it. And since Germany has different laws has anybody in business and all.. it's very hard to pursue them.

The business still rolling while mackie and co. waits for results from court. And by the time the issue is fixed out... berhinger did their cash and Mackie loose ton of money.

That's the sad part... imagine you work over a song for forever and someone copy it of you... to make a cheezy version of it and he gains lots of more money than you and by the time everything is getting done well... you gain a few peanuts in the end.

I don't think people free bash over Berhinger only for their products quality as I said.. but for their politics and manners. This is truely not fair and there's must something to get done. And this is why their gear sells very cheap.

Plus, when you buy 2 same models from Berhinger you aren't sure they're going to work the same. Which is pretty much laughable.

So yeah give your money to them and screw the true workers... Because we want cheap stuff who does great miracles !

Many of the things you say about Behringer are probably true...
However, I have opened and worked on both boards many times...
NOT the same... completely different board layouts, different components, and many differences in features....
I agree that Behringer does in fact completely rip off some products, but this is NOT a reverse-engineered Mackie... it may be ripped off from someone else, but its not the same circuit designs as the mackie board...

[David_Kessler]

We have one leaning against a wall holding a light switch in the "on" position. Best use for it.

[Weasel9992]

Originally Posted by David_Kessler

We have one leaning against a wall holding a light switch in the "on" position. Best use for it.

Oh yeah...that wins for funniest quote of the day.

I worked with Phonic quite a bit at the last place I did AV design for, and I'd say it's comparable with Behringer in terms of sound, but it's not as good in terms of build quality. That's about all I can say...I don't like either brand on most things, but there are some items that both manufacturers make that are quite good.

Personally, I'd pass on it and wait for something else.

Frank