extra $$$ - Blue Ball or Nady Rsm-2?

[hopeless_opus]

So I got a surprise late birthday check from a relative and I have decided to treat myself to a mic purchase for my modest home set up.

Most of the stuff I do at home is for myself, friends or local singer songwriters who don't have the budget to go into the big studio. My set up at home;

Focusrite Mbox pres (I have a hamptone JFET "in build")
FMR RNC
Mics: AT4047, SM57, SM58, MXL 603s
KRK Rp5's
among other things...

obviously I don't do drums at home, just overdubs. I'm looking for another color option for mainly guitars (electric and acoustic), Rhodes, hand percusion, etc... (and maybe Vox)

Two mics I am most interested in are the Blue Ball (I have read both poor and glowing reviews, many giving comparisons to a ribbon like sound) and the Nady Rsm-2 Ribbon. I am also interested in the shiny box ribbon, which is a little cheaper than the Nady, but is rumored to be the same mic.

I would also love other suggestions in the $100-$150ish range. (such as maybe the EV 635a?)

anyway, any advice you all can give would be greatly appreciated.

thanks, Hopeless

BTW - my room at home is not great, nor completely silent so I am leary of figure eight patterns, I'd love advice on this as well.

[cdog]

The Blue Ball..... is not the balls. (Beyer M88 = The Balls)

Try the Nady I've heard good things.....

[covert]

I'd go for the ribbon. You can control the effects of the fig8 pattern with baffling. The ball isn't that impressive, although decent enough.

[Drumsound]

Get the Nady. Put some gaffer's tape over the logo and all is good.

[against88]

the EV 635As you can get cheap if you go used, they are constantly on ebay for around $50, i also just saw one in a music/pawn shop in NYC for $50. (just fyi?)

[hopeless_opus]

Tony do you mean the logo on the body? how would that help the figure 8/bad room problem?

or is there an aditional logo on the back side of the screen that you can't see in the photos.


so no votes for the ball eh? ok

hmmmm....Rsm-2 or 635a...still a tough choice

any other suggestions?

[kidvybes]

...I've got the Nady and it rocks!!!...trust me, this one's a no-brainer...this mic is a great contrast to the standard condenser sound...real FFFAAAAATTTT and SSSSMMMMOOOOOOOTTTHHH...Nady's got the goods with this one (never thought I'd say that!)...

...I got mine from this seller:
http://cgi.ebay.com/BRAND-NEW-NADY-R...QQcmdZViewItem

...use his "Submit Best Offer" and try anything from $149.99 on up...I've seen them go in that range...

[alphajerk]

i got a pair of the nady ribbons right now testing them out and they are pretty effin nice for the cash.... that is a no brainer.... if you want the ribbon "tone"....

[buddy holly]

I think you're just going to have to get both a 635a and a nady ribbon. I haven't tried the nady, but you'll always find a use for the 635a--especially on electric guitar. you'll probably really need to finish that hamptone before you're able to use a ribbon to full effect.

--BH

[hopeless_opus]

Wow, thanks guys... I'm getting excited about the Ribbon mic now, and it's concievable that I could get both of them for around $200. pretty sweet.

Any other thoughts on the Figure 8/omni versus bad sounding room dilemna? it's still the one thing holding me back.

[charlieg6]

Tony was referring to covering the logo with tape to hide the "Nady" name (Nady has not been synonymous with many good products).

As for the figure 8- the room will definitely play in to the sound. If you don't have a good sounding room, a baffle placed a few inches in back of the mic can help tame it a good bit.

Edit: The Shiny Box mics are supposed to be the same mic, but you have the option of getting better transformers put in (for an extra cost).

[kidvybes]

Originally Posted by buddy holly

you'll probably really need to finish that hamptone before you're able to use a ribbon to full effect.

--BH

...that's a good point...the Nady EATS gain!...ribbons take some juice to drive, so you must have a pre with ample gain...many entry level pres won't provide enough to drive the mic properly...of my 6 different pres, only 3 can properly power up the Nady and make the best of it's capability...

[alphajerk]

i have NO PROBLEM with gain on the nady.... it provides more than my R121. any preamp should be more that capable.

[hopeless_opus]

I'm in no position to be a gear snob (slut) just yet, at least in terms of my home setup... so If I get it I'll leave the Nady logo alone... funny that people would bother doing that, in my experience most musicians wouldn't know a U47 from an SM57, much less an AEA from a Nady. (that would have included me up until a few years ago)

Thanks for the baffling suggestion. I mostly use my living room (occasionally the bathroom) to track, so my treatment options are limited...mostly cause the wife won't let me fugly it all up. we have some really thick pillows that I have used in the past, so I think I'll give it a try.

Any opinions on the Shinybox VS. the Nady? any advantage to going with the bigger name company? or the smaller one for that matter?

Thanks guys, super helpful.

[kidvybes]

Originally Posted by alphajerk

i have NO PROBLEM with gain on the nady.... it provides more than my R121. any preamp should be more that capable.

...I don't know that I'd go with "any preamp should be more than capable"...ribbon mics are known to require ("eat") ample gain...certainly more than condensers, and a bit more than most dynamics...although my Joe Meek 3Q and Studio Projects VTB-1 will power up the Nady, the mic sounds dramatically better (and this is where the true ribbon "sound" kicks in) when powered/driven by my GT Brick or Amek 9098, both which have considerably more gain to offer...just a word to the wise...

...other considerations that go with a ribbon are:
1. ALWAYS use a pop-screen with the mic and NEVER blow into the mic or accidently plug the mic in with the phantom power on (NO phantom power PLEASE!), as the ribbon element is very fragile.
2. The Nady MUST be stored in a vertical position (standing upright) to protect the pleated ribbon from "sagging" or stretching out.
...once you understand the process, the rewards are ample...the mic has a very unique and 'usable' sound...very nice!

[twitme]

a-hah! that's excellent to hear that the GT Brick has ample gain for use with ribbons. I just picked up the Brick a few months ago and I have a shinybox ribbon mic on the way; I wasn't sure how much they'd like each other.

I've heard that only older ribbons were sensitive to phantom power...do you know if mics such as the Nady and Shinybox are exempt from this problem?

[Drumsound]

I was just being a smart ass about the Nady logo.

The Shiny Box mics look cool because that have a second model and offer the tranny swap option.

[kidvybes]

Originally Posted by twitme

I've heard that only older ribbons were sensitive to phantom power...do you know if mics such as the Nady and Shinybox are exempt from this problem?

...I did read on another BB site that the Nady's weren't vulnerable to 48V "fryin" but until I hear it directly from Nady I'm keepin' an eye on the phantom switch...I have an associate that made the mistake with an older <vintage> ribbon mic and it literally "evaporated" the ribbon element...dust!...

[twitme]

Originally Posted by kidvybes

...I did read on another BB site that the Nady's weren't vulnerable to 48V "fryin" but until I hear it directly from Nady I'm keepin' an eye on the phantom switch...I have an associate that made the mistake with an older <vintage> ribbon mic and it literally "evaporated" the ribbon element...dust!...

woaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

from the nady RSM-2 user's manual:

3. Never intentionally or accidentally apply any phantom power
from your mixer or a phantom power supply to your RSM-2 as it
can burn up the ribbon. Please always check carefully before
connecting your ribbon mic that there is no phantom power being
provided to the RSM-2.

[junior]

another vote for the cheapo ribbons...

btw, i picked up a used 635a for $35 and was surprised by how good it sounds on guitars and some vocals - very good mic. fwiw, ev makes a mic called the re50 which is supposed to be the same as the 635a w/ better shock protection.

[Alexi]

the nady is awesome for it's price.......i own the thomann ribbon, which is the same mic and it's even cheaper here in germany.

cheers

[alphajerk]

Originally Posted by kidvybes

...I don't know that I'd go with "any preamp should be more than capable"...ribbon mics are known to require ("eat") ample gain...certainly more than condensers, and a bit more than most dynamics...

true but im simply noting this mic has more output than other ribbons that i own and use.... and works on preamps that dont work with my other ribbons. most of my condensors lately havent even needed gain and usually require i pad the preamp. id be willing to bet you would be hard pressed to find a preamp that wouldnt work with this ribbon.... and that is what i like about it, you can choose what color you like instead of which one has the most [and possibly cleanest] gain.

[panda]

i have a shinybox ribbon.. it's pretty much become my go to mic. i honestly realy like the sound of the backside of it. if its the same as the nady. i have no idea. don't have one of those. but yeah. i have to crank the gain into it. i've been using my soundcrafts pre's on it.. at the full 60 db. mostly cause they are quiet.. my other pre's introduce alot more noise when i crank the gain all the way up.

also. last i knew. you should never apply phatom power to a ribbon. unless you want to kill it.

oh, the shinybox mic comes in a very nice hardshell case, and then padded bag.

panda

[alphajerk]

maybe i have become spoiled with my preamp selection. the gain on my flamingo [which btw, cant run the royer well] is only at 12 o'clock.... i still have much more gain to go on it. in fact, its attenuated on the output some at 12.


oh, but i do only peak levels at -9dbFS.

[ShinyBox]

Originally Posted by twitme

woaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

from the nady RSM-2 user's manual:

3. Never intentionally or accidentally apply any phantom power
from your mixer or a phantom power supply to your RSM-2 as it
can burn up the ribbon. Please always check carefully before
connecting your ribbon mic that there is no phantom power being
provided to the RSM-2.

Just to set this clear from my perspective, there are only two instances I can think of that would cause a ribbon to pop based on phantom power.

1. You have an improperly wired XLR connector.

2. You are patching phantom power through a patchbay (trs or tt)

Other than that, having phantom power on or off should not effect the ribbon, at least not my microphones.

Regards

ju

[ozraves]

We've got some clips of the Nady here versus the Royer:

http://mojopie.ipbhost.com/index.php...wentry&eid=137

[hopeless_opus]

Fum,

I think I am going to finally order one of your mics after the holidays. Can you give a little more insight into the sonic differences between the two models? (46 and 23)

I will primarily use it on guitars (acoustic and cabs) and maybe vox if it was the right sound for the song. The electric guitars are also not screaming heavy metal, more like Auchtung Baby U2 type tones. I'm leaning towards the 46 due to what other people have posted about it. (also the base models cause of a lack of $$$) which do you advise trying?

Also, will the figue 8 pattern be a liability in a pretty poor sounding room?

thanks

Hopeless_opus

[ShinyBox]

Hey,

The best comparison is to check out the sound clips on my site. They are not the best recordings, but they were all recorded in the exact same spot/signal chain, in the same sitting.

http://www.shinybox.com/products/rib...es/ac/46AC.aif
http://www.shinybox.com/products/rib...es/ac/23AC.aif

It will give you a better feel than what I can describe using words. The 46 tends to exhibit less proximity effect (less boomy when you get in closer on it). It has a bump in the high end when compared to the 23.

As to figure eight being a detriment, I don't find it so, but actual milage will vary, of course

Regards

ju

[Curtis Franklin]

those comparisons are crazy. even though the nadys dont sound as good as a royer i can afford them. remarkable.

[cominginsecond]

I recorded those clips. Yeah, I think the relative quality of the Nady's pretty amazing. I think the Royer beats it on guitar cab pretty handily, but I think the Nady beats it on vocals pretty handily as well (though I wouldn't reach for either of them as my first choice on vocal). Also note that the Royer had just gone into Royer for a tranny upgrade and a re-reribon.

I'll never regret my Nady purchase if for no other reason than it's the best sounding glockenspiel mic I've ever used. Had I known about the Shinybox, though, I probably would have gone that route. It comes with more, and it's cooler to buy from a small company than a large one.