Bass Guitar is my weak link.

[dynomike]

I find that I often have a lot of trouble getting good bass sounds. This could be because I rarely play bass (though actually, my technique is much better than a lot of the "dedicated" bassists I see/hear around) but I think is mainly attributed to my gear. Lets see what I have:

Fender MIJ "Sting" 57 reissue p-bass (one single coil, not split) -stock
Behringer "Ultra DI" (ugh.. no headroom)
Pre's on my Ramsa DA7.

Sometimes I use Waves RCL for compression, sometimes blockfish, sometimes Amplitube amp sim (but rarely).

I'd like something that would give me a rounder, fatter bottom (ideally), better dynamics, and hopefully the option to get some grit.

Upgrade the bass? New pre? Instrument pre? Fancy di?

Mike

[DC11]

I'd say start with the pre. What is your budget or do you have one?

[egan]

Depends on the style, but I like the Sansamp bass driver alot when going direct.

[George Necola]

me too.. sans amp bassdriver or go with a valve D.I... maybe that fattens up your bottom

[DC11]

Tru dat. THe Sans amp is awesome.

[elninojesus]

I dont have a lot of experience with the Sting bass but I would say the weak link is that DI. The difference between something like an Avalon U-5 or an Aguilar DB-900 and a cheap DI is huge. With that Bass I'd probably just use an amp. I usually use an SVT2 pro but lately I've been getting some pretty great sounds from my blackface baseman.



Mark

[De chromium cob]

I'd first try putting some different strings on it- That sting bass can sound really good....I had one. Try out something like a set of La Bella black nylon tape wounds....They'll give you more of that upright fat sound youre looking for.
Then look into the A-Designs REDDI DI and you'll be in bass heaven....The pres in the DA7 are really pretty good, so I doubt thats the weak link.

[ExistanceMusic]

Oh My God, get a new DI. I use those every night on live gigs and 8 out of 10 are crap, too much noise, no headroom. With alot of active bass's I have to use the pad on the DI, which means I have to use more gain, turning up the noise even more.
Not a Fan.

Grab a REDDI, I should have years ago, but you will find this will make a major dfifference.

[wallace]

For the bass, you might have better luck micing an amp (even if it's a guitar amp) than using a sub-par DI box. If you like the bass, upgrading the pickup could be a good move too. At least get your bass set up from a local shop.

[dynomike]

Thanks for the replies...

I like the pickup in the bass - the electronics are well done with just a single tone control giving a pretty kickin range of sounds, though the pickup is a bit noisy, I don't mind that too much. Just keep out of the way of any EMI sources.

In terms of DI's... I was considering a Sansamp. But will that color the sound of the bass a whole whackload? I like the sound of the bass as it is, for the most part, but of course, the options on the sansamp are nice. I'll look into it.

As far as DI's, I'll check out the REDDI - I was already looking at the Radial JDI, that fancy Class A radial DI, and Avalon, but I've heard good things about the DI on the Hamptone JFET pre so if I was spending that much $$ on an avalon DI its not much more to get a good stereo mic pre at the same time... thoughts?

I'm thinking of upgrading the bridge on the bass to a Badass II, which are fairly expensive, any thoughts? Its got a pretty lousy 50's style bridge which doesn't really allow for perfect tuning as it is. (only 2 adjustable things, not 4) The tuning hasn't bothered me too much yet, but will this really add a lot of sustain as they claim?

Mike

[wallace]

A new bone nut will help (at least with acoustic guitars). Someone was also selling an Avalon DI for pretty cheap here in secondhand section. The bridge might help, but if it's not the greatest bass to begin with you might be better off getting a new bass.

Honestly though, I'd work on your mixing and recording techniques and save money until you can get something that's a step above the pro-sumer level, like maybe a mono channel of a sweet preamp. That will also have a nice DI. I think that will help with your all around sound, and you'll be very happy with the results.

[s.d.finley]

Hey Dyno, i have a Da7 and never use my mixer for bass di.....instead i use a UA610, which is freakin awesome. Dont even need a DI as it has HiZ inputs.

Badass bridges are made of brass, your bass will be heavier in more ways than one. Also, they dont tend to slip.

rock

sdf

[De chromium cob]

The absolute weak link in your setup is that piece of shit DI- Replace that first. Forget the bridge and all that- the stock bass is just fine. Flat wound strings will give you the "rounder, fatter bottom" your looking for......

[warhead]

The Radial JDI you mention is an excellent clean D.I. The Behringer will do the job, but sounds pretty crappy. Getting a good clean D.I. will give you choices of what preamp to run it through, rather than locking yourself into a $600 dedicated D.I.

In my experience, the REDDI with its +16db (about half of most) of gain still requires additional gain from another preamp.

War

[eyesore]

Originally Posted by warhead

The Radial JDI you mention is an excellent clean D.I. The Behringer will do the job, but sounds pretty crappy. Getting a good clean D.I. will give you choices of what preamp to run it through, rather than locking yourself into a $600 dedicated D.I.

In my experience, the REDDI with its +16db (about half of most) of gain still requires additional gain from another preamp.

War

What does a 'crappy' DI do to the signal vs. a good one? When I was considering a DI a while back, everyone I asked assured me that the DI wouldn't affect the sound at all, but was only for impedance conversion. I'd always plug straight into my mixer's instrument jack to record bass, but did try a DI box in front once when I was recording somewhere that had one on their keyboard - can't recall the brand now.


I'm not having any luck right now finding a clip that I recorded with and without the box... I think I recall thinking at first that it was somehow 'clearer' with the box, but a graph of the frequency response showed no significant difference.

Anybody have some clips comparing a good DI to a crappy one to going direct without a DI?

Thanks.

[natpub]

The Tab-Funkenwerk V71 looks really cool too, though I wonder if the gain pot is stepped or continuous--anyone know?

[ExistanceMusic]

Originally Posted by eyesore

What does a 'crappy' DI do to the signal vs. a good one? When I was considering a DI a while back, everyone I asked assured me that the DI wouldn't affect the sound at all, but was only for impedance conversion.

Simply put, a crappy DI will affect your signal in an unpleasent way, with hums and clipping because of crap transformers/ICs. A good DI will simply pass the signal through unharmed, without any undesirable artifacts. Sounds simple, and alot of the best passive DI's are very simple, but like many things in our business, money and marketing are often more of a factor that just good sound.

Oh, and yes, the basic idea of a DI is to convert an unbalanced signal to a balanced one is correct, but it's kinda like saying a compressor compresses, or a mic amp amplifies mic signal....simple in theory, but in the real world of flying electrons, not so simple.

I found some good threads about DI's over at PSW, have a look though, if you can get past the wank.

http://srforums.prosoundweb.com/inde...sg/7569/0/0//0

[T-fonk]

Sorry to say this, but, the sound is in your fingers! Better gear will help on your "tone", but not your "sound". Get out there and play a lot of gigs on bass! It's not about technique, it's about physics....

Best regards,

T-fonk

[klaukholm]

Originally Posted by T-fonk

Sorry to say this, but, the sound is in your fingers! Better gear will help on your "tone", but not your "sound". Get out there and play a lot of gigs on bass! It's not about technique, it's about physics....

Best regards,

T-fonk

I have to second that!
Using a compressor is like shackling a runners feet to keep the steplengths even.
First examine the posision of your plucking fingers in relation to the bridge. find the various sweetspots for different sounds. Experiment with how much flesh to use. Make sure you use a lot of pressure in the left hand right on top of the fret.
Just remember jackos sound. He was using very cheap equipment.
that being said I must admit my bass is $75 000 so maybe I should shut up.

kjetil

[T-fonk]

Originally Posted by klaukholm

my bass is $75 000 so maybe I should shut up.

kjetil

75000 us dollars??
Do you know Kalle Magnusson, by the way?

T-fonk

[De chromium cob]

Originally Posted by klaukholm

Just remember jackos sound. He was using very cheap equipment.

'Jacko' keeps monkeys as pets and sleeps with children....'Jaco' played the bass. And his main bass was a 1962 (bass of doom) Jazz bass. Not exactly cheap.
http://www.musicplayer.com/lounge/setups/jaco.htm

[T-fonk]

Originally Posted by De chromium cob

'Jacko' keeps monkeys as pets and sleeps with children....

LOL

[klaukholm]

Sorry about the typo. When you can spell correctly in my language - you get the right to rag on my english....

my axe is an old english bass
and an american modern bass ($35 000 and 5 year waitlist) by Daniel Hachez
trust me, a fender is not expensive no matter how you twist and turn it. That doesnt mean they dont sound great - I am trading my tobias 6 str in for one as soon as I get the chance.
kjetil

[Sloom]

Hey, mang,

You dont' need to spend a bunch of bread on a DI. Get one that does it's job and doesn't add noise- like that Behringer does. Rapco, ART, ... geez, there are lots of 'em. My little Presonus Tube-Pre does a nice job- $99.00. In fact (and this was said) a decent amp with a mic up to the speaker will do pretty well- depends on the speaker and the mic.

Got an amp with a Direct Out? One channel Direct, another channel mic'd. Now blend 'em in the mix.

The things that'll most affect your sound are
1) Your playing
2) Your bass
3) Your speakers, microphone- any electro-magnetic components of your signal chain.

You don't need particularly expensive electronics to get a good, PHAT sound. See what you've got handy before you go getting zapped by Guitar Center. You might surprise yourself!

[Dot]

Originally Posted by dynomike

I find that I often have a lot of trouble getting good bass sounds. This could be because I rarely play bass...

Upgrade the bass? New pre? Instrument pre? Fancy di?

Mike

None of the above.

It's all in the fingers. No amount of gear in the world will make a difference if you don't spend enough time playing bass.

[klaukholm]

Dan is right on!
The best thing my latest instrument upgrade did for me was to take away all my excuses. Now I know that when it sounds bad -- its all me.

kjetil

[hopeless_opus]

Your bass itself sounds like it is fine. I would recomend getting the Sansamp, I am primarily a bass player and I love the sansamp bass driver DI. It's exceptional. My main rig is a 1972 P-bass with an all tube SVT or an Ashdown combo, and I have never been disapointed when I have just used the sansamp.

Yes, it colors your tone, however pretty much the same way a "good" amp does. It is really flexiable and you can get numerous great tones, as well as a clean active DI when the pedal is in the "off" position. Over the "Behr" DI it should dramtically improve your tone. (assuming as others have mentioned you are a competant player)

The Avalon DI is good, a little sterile. I like the litttle Summit DI better, and I bet the Telefunken one (at the same price, $500) is even better. The last time I used the Avalon on a session we ended up running the sansamp through it and got a great tone. I have never been happy with stock "run of the mill DI's" for bass, they can be cool to mix in with an amp or the sansamp, but I have never liked them much alone in the mix, ymmv.

I also think running into a good preamp can really add greater dimension to a bass track, even a DI'd one. Along with the Hamptone, the RNP sounds cool on bass for $500 and less. do a search there are lots of posts making such recomendations at numerous price points. People seem to like the SP VTB-1 alot at $100, and the little Meek box for $200, for example, I have not heard either myself.

Good Luck!

[eyesore]

Originally Posted by klaukholm

Dan is right on!
The best thing my latest instrument upgrade did for me was to take away all my excuses. Now I know that when it sounds bad -- its all me.

kjetil

Yeah... So cool of Dan to edit what Dynomike said to make it look like he said he can't play.

Plug your bass into even a Behringer amp and mic it and then plug it directly into at least the DI I mentioned above and there will be a WAY bigger difference between the frequencies represented in the two signals than any playing could ever make. I was about to post a thread on such experiments... Let's get back to reality, please. Why is it that people always have to turn a recording discussion into a playing discussion around here?

Or else I've just never met this mythological player that is so terrible that he puts the tone in another dimension.

Thanks.

[BenJah]

Hi there. I more or less make my living playing the bass guitar. The two things that made the biggest difference to my bass recording quality were:

a) a better pre amp. This allowed for much bigger lows and more a transparent top end. Bass became a lot easier to mix. I brought the buzz audio ssa. It sounded like someone had taken the blankets off my monitors.

b) a better bass. I brought an american made fender jazz delux five string. This made even more of a difference. I hardly have to e.q now. Bass sounds freash, clear and huge. Now if only drum recording were this easy....

These options are a little pricey for "low end" I know but they shure make recording bass a breeze.

Good luck

[Capt. Kirk]

Hey there has been some really good advice brought to the table here. I too make my living playing bass, and recording. I think it's just like the chain theory, it's as good as your weakest link. I have played them all and owned most of them. I now have several, and they all have their own sound and they all their place in music. For the style I play the most , I am currently playing my Music Man Stingray-5 through a BBE Bmax for live gigs, and through a Telefunken v74 tube line amp for studio. I am really happy with this current set up. I feel like the foundation for my sound starts with the way I attack the instrument. I think alot of what has been said about the player is just as important.

I have a few dedicated fans that go out and purchase whatever I'm playing at the time in hopes to try to replicate the tones. I am greatful to make my living in the music business. I just hope that things hold out for a few more years to come. Another key to having a great bass sound is a great drummer.......

Kirk