Need 2 interfaces. Budget is $200 for each

[HatfulofHollow]

Okay I need 2 interfaces here.. I'll try to give you as much detail as I can. One is for me and one is for a friend. We are going to start making some songs together but he moved to Las Vegas and I'm in L.A.

WHAT WE'VE ALREADY DECIDED:
We are both going to be using garage band and sooner or later move to protools (please no mention of other DAWs we are already decided on eventually going to protools).

I am going to be recording electric guitars and bass guitars, as well as acoustic instruments (guitars, harmonicas, vocals, etc.) and will also be using midi instruments.

My friend will be recording electric guitars and bass guitars only (or so he says) but I also see the possibility of midi instruments.

WHAT WE HAVE ALREADY:
2ghz Macbook, 2.4ghz Imac, both with firewire and 500gb of external HD space. I have an SM57.

So I was REALLY aiming at getting the Profire 2626 for myself as I had researched interfaces in the $400-800 prices and this one seems to be the best bang for the buck in that range considering what my plans are.. but now, due to financial reasons, I'm going to have to restrict myself to a purchase maximum of $250. I have no knowledge of interfaces in this price range.

WHAT WE WANT:
What is the best I can get for $250-200 for my needs (electric instruments, acoustic instruments, and midi instruments)

What is the best he can get for under $200 for his needs (electric instruments, possibly midi)

We both realize that for this much money we will not get studio sound quality, but we do want the best quality we can obtain. I was looking at a Profire 1814 I saw on craigslist for $180 and it looked nice. Will this work for garage band? will it work for protools 8 when we move to that? I know phantom power is important for my acoustic instruments, what can I find within my price range that has this?

As far as our midi controllers, I want an 88 key one, and he has no specific preference. We will be using this to program drums, add string sections, violins, synth parts, whatever the song calls for. I saw an M-Audio 88key midi controller on craigslist for $75. Is this a good buy? will it work in garage band and protools 8?

ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS BECAUSE WE'RE NOOBS:
Does the quality of the electric and midi inputs matter? Say if a gibson les paul is running right into an interfaces unbalanced input and is using Amplitube Fender as the amp, will the interface's quality make a difference in how it sounds? Same question goes for midi? I was told midi is just midi no matter the quality of the hardware, but is this right?

Thanks for all the help everyone. I signed up to this forum specifically for this question but I'm definitely staying around because I can learn a lot on here..

[Draw the Moral]

Well, for quality and integration with Mac and Garageband, it doesn't get much easier than an Apogee ONE.

Apogee Electronics > Products > ONE

It sounded like you will only be doing one track at a time, so this will work fine, and I hear the built in mic is pretty darn good.

If you want to do two tracks at once in that price range, I'll have to defer to some other slutz around here.

I'm using an apogee duet, and I love it...but it's outside your budget.

But since you mentioned that PT is where you are going, I don't think it will be compatible...but don't listen to me on PT, I'm a Logic guy m'self.


As far as your question, the quality of the interface/converters will GREATLY affect audio sources. Also, the sample rate will affect the quality of the recording as well.

Also, with amp sims, if you go in expecting to get the amps that they claim to model, then you will disappointed.
If you go in and just mess around until you find something that you like (regardless of what they say what amp it is) then you will get more out of it.
A sim will never sound like the real thing. That's not to say bad...but not like the real thing.

However, the quality of the interface will NOT affect MIDI hardly at all (unless the USB bus is overloaded or something).

In fact, you can use an external USB MIDI controller to control the MIDI stuff. In other words, no MIDI cables required...especially if you are just talking about the software instruments in garageband.
Unless you have an external MIDI module/Synth (which it sounds like you don't) then you really don't even need MIDI inputs on the interface to control garageband's instruments.
Just get a USB controller and be done with it...or save your money and use your mac's keyboard.

MIDI is simply a communications protocol that triggers a sound.
There is no sound being "recorded" when you play MIDI, just a set of instructions for the computer. The software/synth/MIDI module is what actually produces the sound or sample.

[ohmicide]

profools is fail

get two apogee ones and logic 9

[Draw the Moral]

Originally Posted by alehoe

profools is fail

get two apogee ones and logic 9

I agree...but...

They said they want PT...so I left it alone...










...even though Garageband is basically Logic Lite, so they're pretty much using it now.

[ohmicide]

Originally Posted by Draw the Moral

I agree...but...

They said they want PT...so I left it alone...










...even though Garageband is basically Logic Lite, so they're pretty much using it now.

well i don't know much about garageband but with the new flex thing logic destroys every other daw i've ever used

i can finally slow down drum hits to pitch them down!

tis glitch heaven

[DeeDrive]

Go with m audio, if you want pro tools, you have to get either digidesign or m audio, and m audio stuff is a better deal. I have the 2626, but I've heard good things about the Fast track pro for $199. Also, the fast track usb is only $99.

[HatfulofHollow]

Okay, so if we were going to be using Logic, for information purposes, I'd like to know.. is Apogee the way to go?

Keep in mind we are DEFINITELY into buying used, as we know this can save us a ton of money..

[Draw the Moral]

Originally Posted by poopieboy

Okay, so if we were going to be using Logic, for information purposes, I'd like to know.. is Apogee the way to go?

Keep in mind we are DEFINITELY into buying used, as we know this can save us a ton of money..

Apogee has designed everything up to the Ensemble specifically to integrate with Logic. As in, you can control the interface natively within Logic.

You can obviously use them with other DAW's as well (except PT). Logic just makes it pretty.

Plus, for the amount of stuff that you get with Logic for the price....it's hard to match with PT.

Browse through this for a little bit:
Apple - Logic Studio



If you guys go PT, that's fine...just do some homework and make sure that you are getting PT because it will be best for your work flow, and NOT just because of the name brand. If it's just name brand appeal, there are PLENTY of other options out there.

[ohmicide]

Originally Posted by poopieboy

Okay, so if we were going to be using Logic, for information purposes, I'd like to know.. is Apogee the way to go?

Keep in mind we are DEFINITELY into buying used, as we know this can save us a ton of money..

well i doubt you can get the apogee one used since it just came out, but it's in the budget new and you wont get a better single ad converter/preamp for the price elsewhere

[Mark Kaufman]

You might want to ask yourself why you've decided to go with ProTools, because it dictates just about every purchase. Most people think they should because it's "the industry standard"...well, okay...but how does that affect you? Are you going to restrict yourself to ProTools compatible equipment because, what, you imagine you will be bringing your PT files to studios? It isn't really that easy...

If you choose ProTools because you like it's workflow, etc, then that's good. If it's for any other reason, you might want to learn a bit more about other DAWs...they can do the same thing, and you might want to keep yourself open to great inexpensive interfaces like Apogees that can work with every other DAW.

[aclarson]

Originally Posted by Mark Kaufman

Are you going to restrict yourself to ProTools compatible equipment because, what, you imagine you will be bringing your PT files to studios? It isn't really that easy...

If you choose ProTools because you like it's workflow, etc, then that's good. If it's for any other reason, you might want to learn a bit more about other DAWs...they can do the same thing, and you might want to keep yourself open to great inexpensive interfaces like Apogees that can work with every other DAW.

While this may be true, it may be a good idea to get something that works with PT in case you ever want it. Regardless of whether you're sure you'll ever use it, I think it's valuable to have the capability. The M-Audio units will work with any DAW. I used to use Sonar since I started in my DAW dabbling with Cakewalk Pro Audio 9, but I switched to PT after I started collabing with a couple of my buddies' project studios, definitely made my life easier, glad I went the M-Audio route. Plus, I don't know about Logic, but PT's knowledge base is FAR greater than Sonar's was, particularly from high-enders who use HD.

Also, M-Powered costs half what Logic does, something to consider, obviously.

And people say good things about the Fast Track Pro, from what I've heard.

[HatfulofHollow]

Originally Posted by aclarson

While this may be true, it may be a good idea to get something that works with PT in case you ever want it. Regardless of whether you're sure you'll ever use it, I think it's valuable to have the capability. The M-Audio units will work with any DAW. I used to use Sonar since I started in my DAW dabbling with Cakewalk Pro Audio 9, but I switched to PT after I started collabing with a couple of my buddies' project studios, definitely made my life easier, glad I went the M-Audio route. Plus, I don't know about Logic, but PT's knowledge base is FAR greater than Sonar's was, particularly from high-enders who use HD

This is my main reason for wanting something compatible with protools, just in case. I am getting Logic Studio 9 with all the plugins for free through work (apple), so I will be dabbling in that, but I still want flexibility.

How is the profire 610? It looks like I can manage my way into getting it for $250 by looking around enough.. This will work with any DAW right? I am thinking of doing this OR getting the Apogee One if I can get a discount on it through work. If its $250 retail I imagine it'd be a little less through work, and if I ever do switch to PT, Id probably be able to sell it used and still not lose money.

My question now is.. if we were ONLY talking about sound quality here, what would you pick? profire 610 or apogee one (assuming the apogee one sounds similar to the duet, since the one just came out)

Also, for UNDER $200, whats the best possibly interface that my friend can get?

Input on midi keyboards is also still very much so appreciated. Thanks a lot so far guys.

[Gharper23]

save up an extra $$ and get a profire 2626 /thread

[HatfulofHollow]

Originally Posted by Gharper23

save up an extra $$ and get a profire 2626 /thread

i wish i could. i can't save up enough for it. i don't have a car right now and have to pay off the next year of my college tuition all on my own, which is like $4800. I know I'm going cheap here, but I love making music too much to put it off til I graduate.

[Ol' Betsey]

If you really do think you might head to PT later I would go with the 610.

Apogee is my preferred convertor but the 610 seems to get great support around the forums (I've never used it...) and you can go PTMP later if you need to.

You'll like how easy it is to mess about in Garageband and then open the project in Logic.

I use both PT and Logic BTW.

R.

[ButchP]

You might want to consider this. It's not just money you are investing it's time.It takes time and effort to learn a DAW.There's nothing wrong with learning multiples ones however you'll probably use the one that you connect with the most.

Logic has a way of overwhelming the newbie. I've only used a few other DAWs before it (Cubase,Cool Edit, Reaper and Garage Band ) but for me Logic has it over all 4 of those regardless of it wieldiness.PT would be a must if you wanted to be a pro engineer(work in a commercial studio) for solo composer..... which it sounds like you guys are...Logic seems to offer the most well rounded DAW straight out of the box.

IMO the ONE is going to be way hard to beat at that pricepoint... it's intergration with GB and Logic are plus and you're getting LOGIC for FREE!!! what other sign from G-d do you need!!

BP

[HatfulofHollow]

Okay so 3 weeks have gone by and guess what. I decided to just get my copy of logic 9 for me and a friend to test it out and it turns out I am going to be staying with Logic. He uses PT at school but it is only light use, and Logic does fit our workflow much better.

My friend decided on the m-audio firewire solo and I decided to go out of my initial price range and get the Apogee Duet. I am still going to save up a bit more money, though, because I can't afford it yet.

We're both going to buy our interfaces used off craigslist.

You guys have been a huge help so far but I do have a few more questions which I don't want to start a whole new thread about.


Question 1: I keep reading about DI boxes. A lot of people seem to be using them to track guitars and bass. As I said earlier, I'm not using any amps due to volume restrictions where I'm living at. I'm doing this all with software amp sims, primarily Amplitube. Do I track my guitars and bass straight into the Apogee or will a DI box between the guitar and the Apogee sound better? Should my friend invest in a DI box between his guitar and his M Audio Firewire Solo?

Question 2: Pedals. What is going to sound better? Using real pedals or using the ones in the software?

My setup is looking like this so far:
Macbook Pro 13" w/ Logic 9 Studio
Apogee Duet
SM57
Yamaha KX8 Midi keyboard
Sennheiser HD280 headphones (for tracking and some mixing)
Regular (but good sounding) Altec Lansing computer speakers (for playback/listening)

My style of music is going to be primarily clean guitar, bass and piano tones with some dreamy guitar and synth tones in there, too. Programmed drum tracks on the keyboard and using BFD plugins. Think The Smiths and The Cure.

Question 3: What would you rate this potential set up out of 10 as far as what I'm trying to achieve? Am I leaving anything out?

[soyezra]

Originally Posted by poopieboy

WHAT WE'VE ALREADY DECIDED:
We are both going to be using garage band and sooner or later move to protools (please no mention of other DAWs we are already decided on eventually going to protools).
...
I saw an M-Audio 88key midi controller on craigslist for $75. Is this a good buy? will it work in garage band and protools 8?

I know you all seem to bash pro tools, but I a practically new Mbox2 from craigslist for 200 bucks (practically new means they used the shit out of it, but it looks spiffy), and I'm happy for now. Since I only record 1 vocal track at a time, I use the 2nd mic input to talk to who ever is in the booth doing vocals (ghetto, i know).

Most M-audio midi keyboards have usb outputs so, look into that, and yes, that is a good price for an 88 key controller, just make sure all the buttons n knobs work

G'luck!

[soyezra]

oops... nevermind =)

[Draw the Moral]

Originally Posted by poopieboy

Okay so 3 weeks have gone by and guess what. I decided to just get my copy of logic 9 for me and a friend to test it out and it turns out I am going to be staying with Logic. He uses PT at school but it is only light use, and Logic does fit our workflow much better.

My friend decided on the m-audio firewire solo and I decided to go out of my initial price range and get the Apogee Duet. I am still going to save up a bit more money, though, because I can't afford it yet.

We're both going to buy our interfaces used off craigslist.

You guys have been a huge help so far but I do have a few more questions which I don't want to start a whole new thread about.


Question 1: I keep reading about DI boxes. A lot of people seem to be using them to track guitars and bass. As I said earlier, I'm not using any amps due to volume restrictions where I'm living at. I'm doing this all with software amp sims, primarily Amplitube. Do I track my guitars and bass straight into the Apogee or will a DI box between the guitar and the Apogee sound better? Should my friend invest in a DI box between his guitar and his M Audio Firewire Solo?

Question 2: Pedals. What is going to sound better? Using real pedals or using the ones in the software?

My setup is looking like this so far:
Macbook Pro 13" w/ Logic 9 Studio
Apogee Duet
SM57
Yamaha KX8 Midi keyboard
Sennheiser HD280 headphones (for tracking and some mixing)
Regular (but good sounding) Altec Lansing computer speakers (for playback/listening)

My style of music is going to be primarily clean guitar, bass and piano tones with some dreamy guitar and synth tones in there, too. Programmed drum tracks on the keyboard and using BFD plugins. Think The Smiths and The Cure.

Question 3: What would you rate this potential set up out of 10 as far as what I'm trying to achieve? Am I leaving anything out?

1) You can go DI into the duet just fine. Especially the gear you have and what you are doing.

You'll learn over time what kind of sounds you like, and then you can adjust accordingly. The nice thing about the duet is that you really won't "grow out of it", except for maybe number of inputs, until you are ready to start spending thousands of dollars.

2) As for the pedals, it's not a matter of better or worse, it's a matter of what works for your mix.
That said, you'll probably be amazed at the quality of effects that come with Logic.
Just experiment. There are no rules.
After a while, you might find that you prefer floor effects, but don't limit yourself initially.

3) The weakest link in your chain, by far, are those speakers. Computer speakers are NOT what you want to use for mixing. I'd save up a little bit a get a pair of studio monitors. There are tons of threads on here about low cost/high value monitors.

Also, do you have a mic stand?
Other than that, you should be fine for a while.

[HatfulofHollow]

I know I'll be fine running a DI into the Apogee Duet.... but is a better approach than if I just run my guitar straight into the Duet?

And I know the computer speakers are the weakest link, but I'll see what I can do on that in the near future. This stuff is expensive... haha.

[Draw the Moral]

Originally Posted by poopieboy

I know I'll be fine running a DI into the Apogee Duet.... but is a better approach than if I just run my guitar straight into the Duet?

And I know the computer speakers are the weakest link, but I'll see what I can do on that in the near future. This stuff is expensive... haha.

That's what I meant. DI means Direct Input, so was saying that getting a DI box would be redundant. You'll be fine going straight into the duet. It has an instrument level setting already.