School Project - Budget 50k

[djgizmo]

Ok, like several other people in the world... I went back to school, but for audio.

Long story short... part of my midterm project for Studio Design II is to budget out a studio of no less than $50k, but no more than 6% over budget either.

Project requirements....

Min of 16 simultaneous Inputs (I'm shooting for 24)
Must include Rack and Wiring costs.
We are to assume cable assembly will be done by self (free) and that all runs are on average 20 feet long.

Here's where I'm stumped...

I want to bring in 24 channels of AD conversion into Pro Tools, but use Lavry Blue 4496 8ch AD converters instead of just a digi 96 converters. I can't get pictures of the back of the device to properly plan my project. Can anyone tell me the format of the digital outs on that device?

Also, any equipment list would be nice. I've been trying to find active pricing on Studer Tape machines, but I've been out of luck.

[manning1]

this should be posted in hi end forum prolly.
get one of your lecturers at school on here n i'll show him how to spend way less than
50k.

[Chris Lago]

I've seen these questions like that before... Total jokes, the reason why I never went to a recording school. If you had 50k, you'd put it in your savings and do something else in life .

[Draw the Moral]

Originally Posted by chrislago

I've seen these questions like that before... Total jokes, the reason why I never went to a recording school. If you had 50k, you'd put it in your savings and do something else in life .

Amen.

If you have 50K to spend on a recording studio, then you probably don't need to be in recording school.
And if you need to be in recording school, then you probably don't have 50K to spend on a recording studio.

The exercise is good: to research and find a setup that will do everything that you need to do.

But they should pick a WAY more realistic budget.

[Chris Lago]

Originally Posted by Draw the Moral

Amen.

If you have 50K to spend on a recording studio, then you probably don't need to be in recording school.
And if you need to be in recording school, then you probably don't have 50K to spend on a recording studio.

The exercise is good: to research and find a setup that will do everything that you need to do.

But they should pick a WAY more realistic budget.

Exactly, not a lot of people have 50k lying around, or are willing to get a 50k loan for a studio, it's way too risky. And if you spend 50k and have no experience with the gear, you will be overwhelmed by all the pieces and you won't be able to learn how each piece works. on a sidenote, a big time studio could cost 50k for room treatment alone!

[theblue1]

We need a "Let us do your homework for you" forum.


Seriously, if you've spent the money -- not to mention time -- to go to recording school, don't you realize that the course assignments are there to help you learn?

If you just throw them off to the friendly and helpful denizens of your favorite unfounded opinion BB, you'll get some answers -- and, call me cynical, but they might just get the typical recording school instructor off your back -- but you won't have gone through the learning exercise behind collecting the answers.

In this case the answers are not important to you or your task of learning -- it's the work involved in getting those answers together.

[Stevil]

find a band that doesn't suck, spend $20k making a record at an existing studio & the other $30k on marketing/touring. then go back to where you got the original $50k & ask for more.

[rhodesp04]

if you're not going to help the kid just leave him/her alone...

what i would do (these are list prices and could be had for cheaper if bought all from the same place. they'd give you a package deal)

Apple Mac Pro $8k (two screens, fastest processors, 12gb RAM)
Pro Tools HD2 $11k
Aurora Lynx 16 (2x) $6k
Preamps: Aurora Audio GTP8 (8-channels) $5k
Mics: (if you do a drum set) 2x sm57's $200, 3x SD421's $1140, KM184 $850, akg d112 $250, yamaha sub-kick $370, akc 414 (pair) $2200
- many of those mics can be reused for other applications such as electric guitar (sm57's) or acoustic guitar (akg 414's)
- Vocals: Wunder CM7-GT $3100 will cover many people also could go for a vintage u87 (also can use an akg 414)
Wiring: estimate: $4k
Plugins: Waves Gold Bundle TDM $2k
Instruments: $3000 (drums, guitars, keyboards, etc.)
Acoustic Treatment: $2000

That's around $50k right there for a good tracking setup. You've also got the Waves Gold Bundle for basic rough mixing. Good luck in school!

[djgizmo]

Originally Posted by theblue1

We need a "Let us do your homework for you" forum.

Seriously, if you've spent the money -- not to mention time -- to go to recording school, don't you realize that the course assignments are there to help you learn?

If you just throw them off to the friendly and helpful denizens of your favorite unfounded opinion BB, you'll get some answers -- and, call me cynical, but they might just get the typical recording school instructor off your back -- but you won't have gone through the learning exercise behind collecting the answers.

In this case the answers are not important to you or your task of learning -- it's the work involved in getting those answers together.

Thank you for your feedback theblue1,

I understand what you're saying... I'm not asking anyone to DO my project for me, I'm asking for some assistance finding pictures of the back of the Lavry Blue. The mfr doesn't seem to have the back pic on their website, and since the gear is expensive, very few have it to go see it in person. (no one in town has one, I've called about a dozen local studios)

I didn't provide the entire details of the project due to the fact I WANT to do this project on my own as I know in real life, I may be asked to price out similar equipment.

The budget for the studio is for control room equipment only, as I know budgeting the building of a studio is a separate monster.

This project is to see if we can put together a 'do everything' studio. Analog, Digital, Stereo & Surround, ITB & OTB mixing, Outboard compression & effects.

As for everyone else,
I didn't mean to offend anyone as I know this project is supposed to be a learning experience.

[Chris Lago]

Originally Posted by Stevil

find a band that doesn't suck, spend $20k making a record at an existing studio & the other $30k on marketing/touring. then go back to where you got the original $50k & ask for more.

Best advice so far

[aclarson]

Gearslutz don't understand this question because gear lust is a thing that we all enjoy. This exercise is clearly intended to make them research all the different gear and learn the differences between things. We all do this in our spare time by nature, so it makes no sense to us. I think one could look at this exercise as a push into our realm, to get the budding audio engineer to learn the varieties of gear available, what they can and can't do, and which pieces in each category they'd prefer on a limited budget.

While the premise may be unrealistic, the learning experience is very real. Learning institutions are known to use all sorts of examples to get a point across.

[Chris Lago]

As much as I have to agree, I can practice gearlust without going to a Recording school

[awakened]

Originally Posted by chrislago

As much as I have to agree, I can practice gearlust without going to a Recording school

true...but after school you can actually afford to own it.

[Doc Mixwell]

Originally Posted by chrislago

As much as I have to agree, I can practice gearlust without going to a Recording school

Recording School, or College?

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by awakened

true...but after school you can actually afford to own it.

????

How do you work that one out? Most people leaving recording colleges are no closer to being able to "afford" anything - the opposite in most cases, many are saddled with debt.

These pricing exercises come up every month or so - that's why you're getting a load of sarcastic replies.

It's a pointless exercise, because (no direspect to the OP - they've been set the question, and to be fair aren't asking the forum for the answers) no-one in their right mind should be spending $50k on gear if they don't know EXACTLY what they're buying (bar the odd query between 2 options for the same job). It teaches you little - who cares what a load of high-end gear costs? You're not going to be in a position to buy any for a good while (as are many of us still, years after leaving university!).

A much more useful exercise would be to give you the components to the studio and ask you to hook them all up together in the most flexible/practical way. THAT way you might learn something useful. Or give you an example of a product, and ask you to research other items that do the same job, with pros and cons for each.

I don't know who sets the courses at these places..but I'd be willing to bet most of them aren't ex or current professionals.

[awakened]

Originally Posted by psycho_monkey

A much more useful exercise would be to give you the components to the studio and ask you to hook them all up together in the most flexible/practical way. THAT way you might learn something useful. Or give you an example of a product, and ask you to research other items that do the same job, with pros and cons for each.

this i definitely agree with, and this is what they do at my college.

as far as where the money comes out...a college (well...a good one) gets you connections with industry pros which, in turn, can get you a better job than you may be able to get by being self-taught. it provides a foundation for what you know. there are a lot of jobs in audio that require a degree, and a degree makes you pretty much recession-proof. there are a great deal of studios closing around here, and all of the engineers with education are becoming instructors at local colleges. the engineers without education...hell if i know...so that factors in to what i was saying about money.


i may have a different bias on this subject considering i'm going into sound-design...but what the hey



i guess i should have been more specific: i don't find a recording program (where you receive a certificate) very useful, just a college education.

[KeithMoonwannabe]

if you are opening a studio to earn a living off of 50k is hardly a tremendous business expense. Just my two cents.

I study business management and plan to open my own restaraunt. I'm planning on starting up somewhere in the 6 figure range for that.

A recording studio can easily be in 6 figure territory. I'd say 50k is on the low end for an entire commercial studio on the gear end. 50k probably wouldn't even cover studio instruments with all the functionality the OP lists as needing. Greater returns require greater investments.

[Draw the Moral]

Originally Posted by KeithMoonwannabe

if you are opening a studio to earn a living off of 50k is hardly a tremendous business expense. Just my two cents.

I study business management and plan to open my own restaraunt. I'm planning on starting up somewhere in the 6 figure range for that.

A recording studio can easily be in 6 figure territory. I'd say 50k is on the low end for an entire commercial studio on the gear end. 50k probably wouldn't even cover studio instruments with all the functionality the OP lists as needing. Greater returns require greater investments.

True, but you aren't comparing apples to apples.

A restaurant has significantly higher chances of success and profitability so long as you have done proper planning and placement for the business. All people need to eat.

Starting a recording studio is an entirely different animal.
Not everyone needs a studio.
There is much higher risk involved with taking 50K out for a studio than even 100K for a restaurant...even though the amount is double.

[djgizmo]

Originally Posted by psycho_monkey

I don't know who sets the courses at these places..but I'd be willing to bet most of them aren't ex or current professionals.

Well the course is set by the head of our department, who came from a school which must not be named.

However, the projects are set by the instructor who is actually a current industry professional. He's been a paid studio engineer for the past 10 years, has a electronics engineering degree, (think a acoustic engineering degree
as well, not sure on that one...)

I'm not sure the reasoning for the project, but I agree with you. I think he's trying to see if we have the determination to learn on the fly how to connect different components in a studio, including patchbay wiring, and how much we should expect to pay for said gear if/when we're ready.

That's just my guess.

For me, I'll be out of school with a BA by the end of next year and it's my first degree. I'll be going back to school for either business or electrical engineering to expand my career paths.

[Gandy]

Does it have to be a DAW, it'd be a lot better to get something like Tascam's DM4800 (DAW or not though), and a rack of stuff. Dunno about you but a DM4800 plus recorders plus monitors plus a bunch of outboard plus cabling I could easily snag for under £35k.

[KeithMoonwannabe]

yes but even in a recording studio you are talking about rate of return. That was my point.

50k for a business startup isn't that much money even if it's a lower or higher risk business.

If anything a studio with a smaller budget would have a harder time succeeding without good planning and thought because they wouldn't have anything to draw their customers with. But of course this all gets very complicated.

[manning1]

djgizmo
heres an intersting likkle fun project to try sometime.
record a band in your 50 k set up.
then record the same band useing a 5k budget.
make sure you use a good AE for both sitiations.
then compare results.
bottom line my argument is a good skilled AE will produce good results on either.
cos theres more to it than the gear.

[KeithMoonwannabe]

Originally Posted by manning1

djgizmo
heres an intersting likkle fun project to try sometime.
record a band in your 50 k set up.
then record the same band useing a 5k budget.
make sure you use a good AE for both sitiations.
then compare results.
bottom line my argument is a good skilled AE will produce good results on either.
cos theres more to it than the gear.

room, talent, etc are more important than gear but not all clients will see it that way.

Why would they spend $xxx an hour to record in your studio when you have nothing to offer them that $1k at the local guitar center can't get them? sure they won't have the skill, knowledge, rooms, etc that your studio has but bottom line is that's what brings people to commercial studios these days. So many people have recording gear and home rigs low end pro studios almost serve no purpose.

Lets all be realistic most people that go to a studio to record look for the gear you have and a reputation. Most skilled engineers that have a huge rep in the business aren't going to be doing work out of a 5k studio.

[manning1]

KeithMoonwannabe

as you know theres lots of bs in the music biz mate.
in my area being near a large metropolis , too many studios.
many have over invested and are chargeing daft low rates.
these are good studios.
fierce competition etc. dont make sense to me.
many go out of business.
but hey if people wanna throw money around , its their business.

[Lifted]

If I had 50 grand...if I only had 50 grand....WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

...alright back to reality

[Matti]

I´m too lazy to follow this but it´s a rudiment to check the pupils not forgetting
any basics of a studio project like rents, acoustics if permitted etc.
50.000 is not so much for a starting bussyness this tec heavy ( even now )

-I could lose the money to some mics and preamps and a compressor or two and rent my rac ( me ) over the local industry with no luck necessarly.

Same with film industry, your location stuff can be way over this sum and still you are recording only the dialoque and sometimes some efx.

Still if I had the money I would buy 3 x m50, 2 x m49, 2 x U47 and 2 x C 12
and be alarmed of the money lost from my account...

Matti

[chris319]

The OP asked a simple question:

Can anyone tell me the format of the digital outs on that device?

and gets 24 posts worth of bla bla bla about how recording schools are no good, what a pointless exercise it is, the guy should do his homework himself, what I'd do if I had 50 large, bla bla bla bla bla.

Welcome to Gearslutz.

[Matti]

Originally Posted by djgizmo

Ok, like several other people in the world... I went back to school, but for audio.

Long story short... part of my midterm project for Studio Design II is to budget out a studio of no less than $50k, but no more than 6% over budget either.

Project requirements....

Min of 16 simultaneous Inputs (I'm shooting for 24)
Must include Rack and Wiring costs.
We are to assume cable assembly will be done by self (free) and that all runs are on average 20 feet long.

Here's where I'm stumped...

I want to bring in 24 channels of AD conversion into Pro Tools, but use Lavry Blue 4496 8ch AD converters instead of just a digi 96 converters. I can't get pictures of the back of the device to properly plan my project. Can anyone tell me the format of the digital outs on that device?

Also, any equipment list would be nice. I've been trying to find active pricing on Studer Tape machines, but I've been out of luck.

I did read the starters some days ago...
No offence intended from my part, really! -To anyone...

Converters: Maybe Lynx of great quality for the price, better than Digi I notice Aurora Converters

Lavry, contact them for info, they are of good reputation... wait Google gives you this: http://www.lavryengineering.com/whit.../4496-2-01.pdf


Matti

Still, I would like 3 x m50, 2 x m49 etc.....

[djgizmo]

Originally Posted by MATTI

I did read the starters some days ago...
No offence intended from my part, really! -To anyone...

Converters: Maybe Lynx of great quality for the price, better than Digi I notice Aurora Converters

Lavry, contact them for info, they are of good reputation... wait Google gives you this: http://www.lavryengineering.com/whit.../4496-2-01.pdf


Matti

Still, I would like 3 x m50, 2 x m49 etc.....

Thanks man for the suggestion on the Lynx Converters. I think I'll go that route as it gives me better AD conversion, but also DA conversion as well.

[mobius.media]

One of these:
Fairchild 670 vintage stereo tube limiter - eBay (item 270419591345 end time Aug-31-09 08:26:34 PDT)

Spend the rest on NOS tubes.



(seriously, do your own homework though. this sort of gear obsession should be fun if you like recording.)