School Project - Budget 50k

[Chris Lago]

Originally Posted by mobius.media

One of these:
Fairchild 670 vintage stereo tube limiter - eBay (item 270419591345 end time Aug-31-09 08:26:34 PDT)

Spend the rest on NOS tubes.



(seriously, do your own homework though. this sort of gear obsession should be fun if you like recording.)

I just bought it! Haha kidding. But seriously, I would not spend that much money, why? because my Liquid mix delivers a really good emulation of the Fairchild 670.

[mobius.media]

Originally Posted by chrislago

I just bought it! Haha kidding. But seriously, I would not spend that much money, why? because my Liquid mix delivers a really good emulation of the Fairchild 670.

I would not spend that much money because I could build my own JJP room DIY-style for that kind of cash.

Seriously insane sluttery if someone actually takes it. That's not remotely rational unless you're a millionaire and a collector. Then I guess who cares.

[Chris Lago]

Originally Posted by mobius.media

I would not spend that much money because I could build my own JJP room DIY-style for that kind of cash.

Seriously insane sluttery if someone actually takes it. That's not remotely rational unless you're a millionaire and a collector. Then I guess who cares.

but think about it, you could have a Fairchild 670!

[djgizmo]

btw, just wanted to update everyone... out of everyone in my class, I was the only one that got an A. I know I could have done a lil bit better, but for my first time doing this, I'm proud of myself.

Here's the list of gear. I made 2 'major' mistakes and 1 minor.
Mistake A) - I only had a HD1 when I needed an HD2 system.
Mistake B) - I only had a 6 space lunchbox when I needed 7 spaces. (due to the La Chapell 583)
Mistake C) - I should have had a 3rd power conditioner, but that wasn't a deal breaker since in theory I could split some outlets for small voltages devices.

All 3 mistakes could be taken care of for around than $1500.

Here's my part list.


Studer A800 MKIII 24 TR Tape Recorder
Avid Pro Tools|HD 1 Audio Interface (cable inc)
Lynx Studio Aurora 16 16ch A/D D/A Converter
Lynx Studio LT-HD (1) Audio Interface
Avid Digidesign 192 Audio Interface
Lynx Studio Aurora 16 16ch A/D D/A Converter
Lynx Studio LT-HD (1) Audio Interface
Avid Digilink MH087 (2) Digilink Cable

Focusrite ISA828 8ch Pre-Amp
Shadow Hill Ind. GAMA 8 8ch Pre-Amp
Avalon D2022 2ch Pre-Amp
API Lunch Box 500 Series Rack
Avedis Audio MA5 1ch Pre-Amp
JLM Audio Dual99v500 1ch Pre-Amp
A-Designs EM Blue 1ch Pre-Amp
A-Designs P-1 1ch Pre-Amp
Purple Audio BIZ MK 1ch Pre-Amp
La Chapell 583s 1ch Tube Pre-Amp

Empirical Labs Distressor (2) 1ch Compressor
DBX 160A (2) 1ch Compressor
Dangerous Music Monitor ST 2ch Mon.Control Sys
Dangerous Music Monitor SR Surround Expansion
Yamaha HS50M (5) Sur. Monitors
Yamaha HS10W Active Subwoofer
Tannoy 15 DMT (Pair) Mains - Monitors
Crown Macro Ref. Studio Amplifier
Avid Command8 PT Control Surface
Waves Gold TDM Plugins
ADK "Custom DAW
Quad Xtreme (Core i7)" PC
Logitech Trackman Marble Trackball
Dell S2309W 23" (2) LCD Monitor
APC SC450RMI1U Rack Mount UPS
Furman P-1800 AR (2) Power Conditioner
Studio RTA Producer Station Work Station Desk
Audio Accessories 312A (5) 48pt Longframe Patchbay
Mogami W2447 1ch XLR Cable
Mogami W2932 8ch XLR Cable
Neutrik NYS228BG (48) TRS Connector
Neutrik NC3FX (36) F XLR Connectors
Neutrik NC3MX (44) F XLR Connectors
Neutrik NP3TB (72) Long Frame Connectors

Total came to $51,193.32

[Tom H]

Where are your microphones?

[djgizmo]

This was for CONTROL ROOM equipment only. Live room equipment is separate.

[Chris Lago]

Mics are not important in the real world... You know, other than capturing the sound of singers, instruments and whatnot... Not important at all.

[djgizmo]

whats with the attitude? The project (like projects in real life) had specifications that needed to be met.

One of those were to assess control room equipment, not live room equipment.

If we want to get on the case about Mics are important, then we can say....

• so are the cables they're connected to
• the specific instruments they're recording... is it a Fender, or a Les Paul,
• the musicians, have they been playing/singing for 15 yrs, or are they a newcomer...
• Why don't I compare Aerosmith & Jay-Z to Nine Inch Nails and Radio Head.

Why don't I price those out too? WOW, thanks for pointing out how flawed this was.

I figured quite of few people took the time to respond to this thread and I thought it'd be nice for them to find out how I did and what I selected.

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by djgizmo

Why don't I price those out too? WOW, thanks for pointing out how flawed this was.

I figured quite of few people took the time to respond to this thread and I thought it'd be nice for them to find out how I did and what I selected.

well done on the mark.

it's just a shame that you've spent time on what is essentially a pointless exercise. Just doesn't bear relation to what happens in the real world...essentially, if you have to do research to find out what you'd spend the money on, you don't have enough knowledge to consult on a studio build.

From a "real world" perspective (ie trying to attract freelance clients to a room) there's way more flaws in that list than your tutors (who I'd be surprised if they had any real world experience) have pointed out. That's not a criticism of you, just of the task set.

Hopefully your next assignment will be of more use.

[djgizmo]

Originally Posted by psycho_monkey

well done on the mark.

From a "real world" perspective (ie trying to attract freelance clients to a room) there's way more flaws in that list than your tutors (who I'd be surprised if they had any real world experience) have pointed out. That's not a criticism of you, just of the task set.

Hopefully your next assignment will be of more use.

Thank you for the feedback. Yea, I understand I don't have the experience to perform a true consultation for a control room, but this project help me understand how much wiring is involved and why I'd choose the pieces of equipment that I did.

I'm open to your suggestions in regards to this project.

My instructor does have real world experience in not only building studios from the ground up, but as a mix engineer as well. I agree with you in regards to real world. I do have to understand from his perspective that most of the students that come to our school 'try' to be beat makers or in heavy metal bands. (I don't fit in either category) So basically if he doesn't scew the class towards the majority, the majority would probably fail or not learn anything. If more people would fail than pass, the school wouldn't make any money and the program would be shut down. Students such as myself take whatever I can away from each class. This class I'm taking away the importance of discrete gear and discrete opamps & rack wiring.

[lpkyer]

Originally Posted by djgizmo

If more people would fail than pass, the school wouldn't make any money and the program would be shut down.

I've been reading these last posts of this thread and let me ask you this...
What's your definition of a recording school student "failing" in a real life situation?

[Chris Lago]

What's the point of having preamps on the list if you don't have microphones to use them? I don't really get this exercise at all... Do clients bring their own mics?!?

Anyway, I don't think anyone nowadays would have 50 grand to blow on gear, especially not all at once. The degree of failure is way too high.

[ckreon]

I own and operate a small project studio myself - and it became my main thing after I decided for a change in direction in life (was touring with my band - but a serious relationship and more responsibilities as I 'grew up' swayed my passion).

I was attending school online while touring (sort of), and to ease back into 'real' school, I decided I would pursue "Recording Arts" at my university.

I thought I'd enjoy it because, a) I enjoy recording/mixing, b) I already run a business in that profession, and c) I am knowledgeable and comfortable in the field. This would give me a head-start, I could ease back into school, and heck, I'd probably learn a thing or two while at it!

Jesus was I wrong. Attending those classes become a chore, and a really hard thing to do without literally standing up and cursing the instructors.

They teach this art like an office job, like studios still rake in millions a month. They approach the field with a very snobbish attitude, if it isn't good enough, don't deal with it, buy something better, hire a better musician, etc.

Of course, real world situations are exactly opposite. You're a struggling business owner/freelance engineer - its generally not a great idea to tell the guitarist to shrug off and at the same time try and make them pay for a studio guitarist ().

And if something isn't good enough (whatever that might mean), you don't throw money at the problem (because both you and the band have none), you figure out how to freakin' make it work!

And in the end, after you've dealt with having to limit yourself in certain areas, you discover that you made some very creative choices, you pushed all the band members to be their best (or more realistically, you edited them to be their best..), and you kick back with a drink at the product you put out that sounds damn good.

I doubt put in the situations I deal with everyday, or my gear list, any of my instructors could make a recording worth shit.

It seriously was absurd, and to top it off they weren't even teaching Pro Tools. Now, I'm not saying PT is the end-all-be-all, but if you expect to work in a studio and you have never touched it, well, best of luck. I did enjoy getting back into music theory and my piano class though.

In the end, I switched to Management Information Systems (computers are another love of mine), and I'm much happier. This will (theoretically) give me an actual fall-back kind of thing if I do need one down the road, and its also something I enjoy.

I don't know if it was more sad or funny to watch the students mill around the studio (even the ones that were in charge of it) - they had plenty of attitude though.

In the end, I wish the OP the best with his education, and I hope he enjoys the process. But what people say about the schools and students is pretty spot-on. Most of the time, students come out WORSE OFF then they went in, simply because of attitude and expectation. Keep in mind that full-sail alone spits out 1,000 of you guys a year, and that should keep you motivated with plans to get more degrees!

[djgizmo]

Originally Posted by lpkyer

I've been reading these last posts of this thread and let me ask you this...
What's your definition of a recording school student "failing" in a real life situation?

Good question.
My definition of a recording student failing in a real world environement is when he or she does not adapt and learn on the job. Those that cannot absorb info from those that are trying to show them the ropes.

My definition of an industry workng professional failing is any situation where a customer (nternal or xternal) is consistantly not satisfied.

[awakened]

I am a little disappointed that every time that college gets talked about on GS, we just kind of assume that everyone is learning audio to work with JUST music. Yes, it's relative to this thread, but this thread has gotten so far off of the main point...

Whatev

[rivalrysound]

I'm in school and I value the education that a traditional 4 year college has to offer, along with extensive training in studio work. I don't intend on recording music in my spare room for the rest of my life; I would like to own and run a studio but with the current shape of things it appears that won't be happening right away for me, so the college education will hopefully help me to adapt to a changing job market (especially in this line of work). There's more to earning an education in this field than just learning about connections, microphones, and signal flow- it's about problem solving and learning to be creative. If you've been able to build yourself up on your own without any education then that's absolutely great, but keep in mind that there's always something to learn and there's always an opportunity to better yourself.

[noah330]

First I should say I did go to college for MP&E. I was a dual major at Berklee (MP&E/Music Synth). I think you can get a lot out of a four year education, but in reality it's the MS part of my degree that lets me earn a good living.

I started a company doing DAW training materials, sold it to a big company for a lot of money now I manage a group of engineers doing software development. A college education is a great thing to have. After you get your first job nobody cares what you went to school for (unless you're a doctor or a teacher). I spent 4 years playing guitar and learning about computers and audio - it was more fun then getting a degree in English.

I have your 50k requirments and spent about 15k - and the actual cash I put out was a lot less then that due to looking for good deals, fliping gear and buying and selling.

The trick isn't to be able to drop 50k on a bunch of requirments - it's about how to take a modest inverstment in a studio that you can afford and build upon what you have.

BTW - I have a DM-3200 ($1000.00 on B Stock) with FW card ($300.00) going into a last generation DP G5 that I bought used ($500.00) into DP6.

I have a UA 610, a Vintech, an Avalon M5 and an old Digitech VTP-1, 2 UAD-1 ($99.00 blowout with 100 voucher = free) and a LiquidMix as well as an old PCM-91.

You don't need 50k to start a studio - and if you have 50k cash there are better businesses to get into.

[djgizmo]

Why does everyone want to take this thread off topic? Seriously...

let me repeat this one last time.

I DID NOT MAKE THE PROJECT. I DID NOT MAKE THE REQUIREMENTS EITHER.

Bottom line I wanted advice for AD/DA conversion, I got the advice I needed and submitted my projected and received a decent grade on it.

Would I personally use 50k for a recording studio? Nope. Would I need 32 tracks I/O. Nope. Would I even need patch bay... doubtful.

I'm going into post and any given basis may need 2 channels of inputs and maybe 6 channels of outputs for 5.1 surround.

In my spare time, if a friend wants to record Vox in my mixing room, sure I'll help them out, but I know that will even happen.

/thread